Thoughts on this NSX? Lots of pics

So I went to look at a NSX today. After a 4 hours drive one way, I finally arrived at the seller's house. The drive was exhausting (especially through the city with the heavy traffic), but pretty interesting. My family and I went on a road trip to Michigan a few years back taking the same route so it was pretty nostalgic. Anyways, on to the stats...

-1991 Canadian Car with 140,000 km (87,000 miles) and clean title - VIN: JH4NA1157MT800039

-7 Owners including current. 4/7 are dealers/finance or lease subsidiary

-Not sure if in snap ring range. Tried looking for the transmission VIN, but couldn't find it

-Current owner has owned the car 9 years, but has only driven it for 4,000 km (2,500 miles)

-ISSUES:
1. No maintenance records
2. Current owner said he lost the records in a move, and he has only done oil changes. The oil changes are done at his home by his friend. He said he uses Mobil 1 synthetic and changes the oil at the start of every season. The closest Acura dealer to his home is 2 hours away.
3. Air conditioner is not blowing cold air (at any setting)
4. Passenger door lock is not working, and creates a weird sound when it is shut. Sort of like a piece of metal falling off on the inside and creating clings
5. Scheduled maintenances are definitely deferred
6. Tires are at least 9 years old
7. Carproof shows a $1800 CAD repair, also signs of repaint on front bumper (front bumper was way too clean for a 140,000 km car)
8. Driver seat bolsters are torn
9. Driver sun visor has a huge rip (maybe a circle with a diameter of 6-7cm), forgot to take a picture

-Asking price: *REMOVED*

I have no experiences with cars so I tried my best reading up on the wiki last night to familiarize myself. I don't mind so much about the exterior and interior conditions. I am more worried about the mechanics of the vehicle (i.e., engine, transmission, clutch, brakes etc.). Should I even bother with a PPI and compression test? I know PPI results will depend on the experience of the tech, but can a compression test really show the health of the engine?

Here are the videos:

https://youtu.be/Ur8bVA0qOaI - Local, with both windows up and down (got quite toasty inside cabin with the beautiful weather!)

https://youtu.be/YPgxzC2_D1s - Highway merge, VTEC just kicked in yo!

https://youtu.be/W6NMCWeVW1c

https://youtu.be/ibQdIfsS6PM


Here are the images:



















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Compression test is a good thing to do. The stock oil pressure gauge is not totally reliable. But what did it read when driving ? I would also try to recharge the AC and see if it works and keeps on working during some days.

What I do not like on this car is the condition of the outside rubbers (windshield, hood, lights, ...) that seems cracked as if the car stood outside for a long time. Otherwise, it (just) need a deep cleaning.

You would have to replace these rubbers, tires, all liquids and filters (brakes, clutch, transmission, motor) and timing belt + water pump. So expect 5 k$ to make it "clean".

The car definitely needs some TLC but it's not terrible from the looks of things. I'd estimate a good 6-8k in parts and labor to make it tip top shape. Or $4-5k minimum to just get it going.

It's a good deal though and might be worth the gamble.

Many of the issues in your pictures are quite common on an older NSX that hasn't been refreshed or had parts replaced. The ripped seat bolsters, worn interior leather, ripped sun visors, and cracked front parking lights all happened to my NSX while owning it. None of those items are indicative of abuse.

The misaligned pop-up headlights is super easy to fix. When I installed HIDs in my car I had the same problem. If you're not super careful how you place the pop-up covers back on, it will look misaligned like that. Perhaps the a previous owner removed the popup covers at some point in order to install HID? The spider web crack in the paint on the front is a sign of stress. My guess is that the car was lightly bumped into in a parking lot.

It's normal for an older NSX engine to generate a bit of a clicking noise. As long as its not excessive, it's likely not an issue.

It's normal for the oil pressure gauge to appear to be reading zero when the car is warmed up and idling.

What I would be most concerned about is the non-functional AC. You really need to find out why it's not working. If the compressor has seized and contaminated the entire system with metal shards the cost to properly repair will be very high. In the worst case scenario an Acura dealer may quote you as high as $8000 to fix. Definitely get a PPI and if you learn that AC system needs expensive repairs you can use that to negotiate a lower price with the seller. You might be able to get a really good deal on this car.

Doesn't seem that bad honestly, aside from the door issue. Be sure you get it compression tested and make sure there isn't any valve tap. Make sure it's also not leaking oil, as the camshaft seals love to do that on these cars. Ask when the timing belt was last changed because at this mileage it could be way over due.

Aside from that and the poor care of the exterior, seems like a decent price. As others have said 5-6k to get it back 100%, assuming the engine is in good shape.

If you don't buy it, let me know, because I will.

Need another NSX in my life.

The front end misalignment, no maintenance records, many paint scratches, worn interior and no A/C suggest the car has not been well cared for over the years.
If the aesthetics are poor and no records you wonder how much maintenance was done to the car?
Normally if aesthetics are good the owner(s) ususally have looked after the hidden things like timing belts, coolant hoses etc.
Suggest the car will need an easy $6-8 K to bring it back if the driveline is good.
TB/WP $1800
Coolant hoses $1000
A/C compressor and convert to 134a $1500
Repaint nose $500.
Seats recover $800?
Fluids/brake pads etc. $500?

Personally if there are no maintenance records and the aesthetics are weak I would want to get a real bargain on the price and expect to spend a lot.
As you are not experienced working on cars you may be using a dealer/shop for a lot of the work and that's expensive.
Better off to spend $40K on a solid car than $33K and a long list of repairs.

[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION] There are so few to choose from in Canada, let alone a solid $40k one.

You might want to try asking the Acura dealers who are nearest to the past owners if they've ever worked on this car. My car didn't have many records with it when I bought it, but I later discovered that it had been serviced many times at a nearby Acura dealer. When I finally got the records from the dealer I saw it had been maintained far better than I imagined.

What's with the open ended lug nuts? They look ghetto. Never seen anyone use those on an NSX. Those nuts are symbolic of how the owner didn't care how the car looked. Odds are most of the issues are superficial, just like those ugly nuts. Honda engines are very reliable even when not well maintained.

I'd still be concerned about the AC. Why did it fail? If the compressor self destructed it will cost a lot more than the $1500 that others have suggested in order to properly fix it. And if it's simply low on refrigerant then there's probably a leak. Most common place for a leak is the evaporator core. Replacing this part requires dissembling most of the car's interior. It's a big job.

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A big plus for this car is that it's nearly 100% stock and not molested like so many other early NSXs.

Andr3w said:

[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION] There are so few to choose from in Canada, let alone a solid $40k one.

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Andrew
I understand your dilemma.
Tight budget and limited supply.
Perhaps the best way forward is to make a conservative offer that, if accepted, will give you lots of room for repairs/restoration and unexpected items.
The seller may not have had many offers and may be ready to take a lower offer now?

If you have no records then you know zero about the clutch replacement or not! Add at least $2500.00 to your list if it goes away in the next 6 months.

A few points.
1) This price is very low especially for a non salvaged vehicle.
2) The lack of service history wouldn't deter me if it was what I wanted. The serviceable parts are consumables anyway and will need replacement at some time in your ownership. So why not get it out of the way and know it was just done?
3) The cheapest Nsx you buy will be the most expensive Nsx you own. It was for me. But it sat in the garage as mine...
4) If you don't want to wait and search for more years, take the plunge. Prices will only keep going up with the new Nsx hitting the streets.
5) I have to ask the question how the engine bay got so damn dirty with aluminum parts corroding? Must have been driven in snow/salt and rain if I had to guess.
6) You say you do not know a whole lot about cars. This might not be a good purchase for you if so. But that should still not stop you. You always have great people and info here on Prime. It's a Honda and moderately easy to fix.
7) Lastly, I wouldn't worry about body panels not lining up.You have lots of easy adjustment though, as these cars are 100% hand built.
8) These cars keep getting fewer and fewer. Immaculate condition cars the owner is asking a ridiculous price. Buy a fixer upper if it is your dream car, fix it, learn from it, enjoy the whole process....

Andr3w is inspecting the next car I purchase! LOL

synth19 said:

Andr3w is inspecting the next car I purchase! LOL

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excellent point!

The owner did offer to let me test drive it, however, I have not driven stick in 6-7 years so I kindly declined.

Here are the videos:

http://tinypic.com/r/28kk7dz/9 - Local, with both windows up and down (got quite toasty inside with the beautiful weather!)

http://tinypic.com/r/2rpwqhe/9 - Highway merge, VTEC just kicked in yo!

http://tinypic.com/r/11qseaf/9

http://tinypic.com/r/20r37np/9

Comments: I didn't hear anything unusual compared to the numerous vids that I have watched on youtube. The ride was comfy, and I didn't feel any odd vibrations when accelerating/decelerating/braking.

@asylum I forgot what the oil pressure was during the drive
@B2FiNiTY I'm probably going to call around to get some quotes
@BB That's definitely one of my main concerns too
@comptonassdaniel Sure, i'll let you know. Are you from Toronto? I did check under the car when I arrived for oil/fluid spills/leaks, also after the car was out for the short drive. The TB&WP are definitely due. Owner said he has not done anything to it besides oil changes
@JD Cross He actually messaged me through either my autotrader/kijiji ad that I had posted (I have taken them down for now). I have been told by the owner that he has not posted anywhere yet. What is a fair price? I did ask him if there was room for flexibility and that the sale would be contingent on the PPI results
@Jinks thanks for the reply. I was hoping someone would comment on the rust in the engine bay
@synth19 happy to help!

Andr3w said:

@comptonassdaniel Sure, i'll let you know. Are you from Toronto? I did check under the car when I arrived for oil/fluid spills/leaks, also after the car was out for the short drive. The TB&WP are definitely due. Owner said he has not done anything to it besides oil changes

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Naw, I'm definitely not from Toronto. I'd have to import it into the U.S. -- probably gets sketchy from there for me.

That was more or less me saying that if you feel like you are up to putting the work in, you should get it. As [MENTION=31260]Jinks[/MENTION] stated...prices are crazy right now. I bought an NSX in decent shape for 23k in 2012.

Those days are long gone. Keep us posted on what you do!

Yeah car needs a little work. When I bought my car I spent about 5 grand to make the car perfect. 8 years later and still running strong. I would offer 28g and explaining what the car needs. Our cars are rare but not that rare. There are many for sale.

Andr3w said:

JD, He actually messaged me through either my autotrader/kijiji ad that I had posted (I have taken them down for now). I have been told by the owner that he has not posted anywhere yet. What is a fair price? I did ask him if there was room for flexibility and that the sale would be contingent on the PPI results

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If I was selling and a buyer asked if I was flexible I'd say no, an easy decision
If I had a firm offer then I have make a harder decision, either take it, or counter it.
If you are serious then get a PPI done.
Make sure whomever does the PPI looks carefully at the overspray and the repaint.

Once you have that you can decide what the car is worth to you and make an offer

JD Cross said:

If I was selling and a buyer asked if I was flexible I'd say no, an easy decision
If I had a firm offer then I have make a harder decision, either take it, or counter it.
If you are serious then get a PPI done.
Make sure whomever does the PPI looks carefully at the overspray and the repaint.

Once you have that you can decide what the car is worth to you and make an offer

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[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION] Seller does not want to drive 3 hours one way to Oakville to have the PPI performed by NSXCC. So we have settled on Acura West in London (2 hour drive one way for both of us). I called Acura West last week and was told that the factory trained NSX mechanic will be back from his vacation on July 25th. That's the bottleneck in the schedule.

In the meantime, I am going to call nearby dealers and reputable indies in the GTA for quotes.

Andr3w said:

[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION] Seller does not want to drive 3 hours one way to Oakville to have the PPI performed by NSXCC. So we have settled on Acura West in London (2 hour drive one way for both of us). I called Acura West last week and was told that the factory trained NSX mechanic will be back from his vacation on July 25th. That's the bottleneck in the schedule.In the meantime, I am going to call nearby dealers and reputable indies in the GTA for quotes.

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Good idea to get their NSX tech to do the PPI. The seller should respect the points raised by the dealer's tech.
What quotes are you looking for?
Repair estimates?
I'd get Acura West to give you estimated repair costs based on their PPI.
Their numbers should be the highest you'll see which is what you want for your negotiations.

[MENTION=5905]JD Cross[/MENTION] Actually I had suggested that dealer since another dealer nearby isn't open on Saturdays and that is the only day I am available.

A search here on prime shows that different dealers in the Toronto area charge differently for the same services. Even in this thread, a lot of people have posted invaluable advices and repair expenses. I figured different areas, and regions have different prices so I might as well go ahead and gather info that's specific to my area.

Another suggestion might be to download the NSX shop manual from the Wiki and also do searches in the forums on the issues you know you will need to deal with from what you've leanred so far.
Some repairs may be beyond your current technical skill.
However you may be surprised after reading the shop manual and the repair posts from other owners that you can do many things on your own.

No records is the first sign this car has been neglected...you don't lose those things in a "move" and from the pics, it's pretty evident it needs a lot of work...you'll be in $5-8k just getting it back up to where you'll be happy with it.... 7 owners, regardless of who actually owned it, is another red flag and is going to have a stigma attached to it if and when you ever sale.

I would walk if I were you, be patient a good car will show up without all the stories.... Then again, they are getting harder to find, but they do seem to pop up now and then.

Patience grasshopper :wink:

Teh poor old nsx needs you ;P

Needs a lot of TLC, I bought my one in very similar condition here in New Zealand. If you do take the plunge, totally worth it, you'll be spending a couple of thousand at least just getting it up to scratch. Definitely replace all the coolant hoses! There are about 22 of them and an absolute pig to remove and re-install i.m.h.o. I had one of the top engine side hoses burst while giving it some beans.


Hope this helps.

Kabuki

Andr3w said:

The owner did offer to let me test drive it, however, I have not driven stick in 6-7 years so I kindly declined

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Test driving the car may be the single most important aspect of getting to know what you're buying. When I purchased my '91 I was a bit reluctant at first due to a few cosmetic issues and a radio that didn't work (undisclosed until I drove three hours to see the car). Once I got behind the wheel and felt how tight the steering was, how great the brakes performed and how effortlessly the car accelerated up the on-ramp all my concerns melted away. I could tell the car was mechanically sorted. There's no way I could have made that assessment from the passenger seat. Even if you haven't driven a standard transmission in several years it'll come back to you. The NSX gearbox is pretty forgiving and won't bite. Bottomline: Test drive it!

Alternative to London Ontario would be to take a trip to Farmington Hills, MI (suburban Detroit) and have Mike Michalik at Suburban Acura do the PPI. Many of the greater Detroit area NSX owners know and use Mike and I can personally vouch for him -- 20+ year Acura tech who flew out to Phoenix with me in November /09 when I bought my /94 NSX to do the PPI and drove back to MI with me! Although my NSX had only 18,800 miles on the clock when purchased Mike did an extremely thorough PPI before I pulled the trigger. He knows these cars inside out. I am super picky about maintenance on my NSX and since acquiring same there are only two techs that have touched my car -- Mike and Rob Magro (NSXCC technical advisor who is near Guelph, Ontario) who is also fantastic. Good luck. You will need to be a bit circumspect when crossing border to avoid long explanation and lots of questions.

To echo some of the thoughts above, this car does not appear to have been well-loved and will probably take quite a few Loonies to bring up to par.

Best,
Jeff