Tracking the NSX at Laguna Seca - Oversteer and Overheating

Zygrene · 29 September 2016

docjohn said:
As illwillem suggested it is you who is letting the car push then get loose....I have been on track with fast guys in stock cars and they are in control regardless of grip levels..they are working hard with lots of corrections, fast hands and twinkle toes.....optimize your brakes/tire pressures, and get seat time with good instructors..... find one with a in car communicator like chatterbox ect ...a baffled oil pan may not be a bad idea if you start to push on R comps.Have fun!

True, I should hone my skills on the stock setup before I try to change the handling characteristics of the car. I don't plan to go R comps while the car is stock, so I'm guessing the baffled oil pan isn't necessary?

Dhalsim said:
I'm in for whatever you guys decide on

I'm leaning towards Dec. 11 track day. We'll be well rested with a full belly.

stuntman said:
I agree with most of the comments given so far. 45psi is bit too high, and if you waited 30 mins or so between sessions to drop the pressure to 37psi just before your next session, it's likely your pressures were still too high. As others have said, you need to check your pressures immediately after coming off the track, preferably with little to no cooldown.

Are you on stock 205/225 width tires?

I'm not a huge fan of HP+ pads, I would go with something a bit better.

Overall your driving looked pretty good. The NSX is a well balanced chassis and does what you tell it to. Heavy trailbraking is good to rotate the car, and it actually does, but if you didn't want that entering thre corkscrew, you need to back up your braking point to not trailbraking (and rotate) as much when turning in to the corner.

I would hardly call your moments "big snaps", you didn't let them get that far out of whack and caught the slides fairly early. Your big OS moment in T11 was from trailbraking, unloading the rear, upsetting the car over the curb, then aggressively getting on throttle. Keep in mind if you do get oversteer, DONT punch the throttle. That's a really bad habit to get into. As skip barber teaches: "When in doubt, both feet out". As others have said, keep learning the car. Most of the issues are self induced.

The standard size is a 215/265 on a 17x7.5 and 18x9.5 personally I'd go with a 17x8 and 18x10 and use a 275 rear tire.

+1 on seriously considering a baffled oil pan sooner than later.

I'm a bit surprised you were having heating issues with stock power. Not sure if your radiator is just old and clogged, or if the radiator fins are all smashed in to reduce its cooling ability.

I waited around 5 min after the first session before dropping from 45psi to 37psi. Next time I'll try to check even sooner. Good tip.

Yes, stock 205/225 width tires. HP+ pads aren't perfect on the track but I plan to wear them out before trying a better pad. I've heard good things about Carbotech XP10/8 front/rear.

Hmmm, I typically make a conscious effort to brake in a straight line before entering the corkscrew. Maybe I just carried too much speed on corner entry. Next time I will try to set up pedal cam so I can review my throttle/brake inputs in these situations. It all happens so suddenly that it's tough to remember what really happened.

Question on the topic of throttle application once the car begins to oversteer - I thought the right idea was to manage (but not floor) the throttle to keep a bit of weight on the rear while countersteering, so the car will regain rear traction. I assumed that letting off the throttle completely would keep the rear end too light and more prone to swap ends with the front. Correct me if I'm wrong.

RYU · 29 September 2016

I agree with everyone on the oil baffle. Especially for long right hander sweepers turns. It's insurance. It's a question of how much do you think you need it. You're a good enough driver I think where i'd advise, you consider that high priority in your mod list. Not much else, including wheel/tires, bushings, dampers, etc are crucial.

Cooling, oil starvation, maintenance, etc, are the proper hardware "safety" items i'd consider high priority. Though, it's almost like the question of a Hans device and a 6 point harness. You don't need it until you do I suppose.

stuntman · 29 September 2016

What's your alignment?

Also invest in a PROBE type tire pyrometer and learn how to use it to dial in pressures and alignments.

You will get A LOT more rear grip going to a 265-275 rear tire, and yes even on street tires, get the baffled oil pan.

When sliding, there is a FINE line between loading the rear tires with a TINY bit of throttle and asking the rear tire to accelerate and corner -which reduces rear grip and makes things worse. 99% of the time it is better to get off the throttle. The fact I could hear you on throttle when sliding means you made the problem worse and prolonged the slide. Now your fast lap had a tiny correction and that was fine. The examples after the complete lap, you shouldn't be on throttle

When you lose rear grip, staying off throttle transfers the weight to the front of the car, this gives the front tires more grip to send the car where the front tires are pointed and asks the rear tires to only do one thing -corner. So "when in doubt, both feet out" -And steer in the direction you want to go, not the direction you're heading will save you more often than not, and save you far more than trying to keep weight on the rear while staying on throttle.

Zygrene · 29 September 2016

RYU said:
I agree with everyone on the oil baffle. Especially for long right hander sweepers turns. It's insurance. It's a question of how much do you think you need it. You're a good enough driver I think where i'd advise, you consider that high priority in your mod list. Not much else, including wheel/tires, bushings, dampers, etc are crucial.

Cooling, oil starvation, maintenance, etc, are the proper hardware "safety" items i'd consider high priority. Though, it's almost like the question of a Hans device and a 6 point harness. You don't need it until you do I suppose.

True, better safe than sorry. Damn, and thus begins the slippery slope. All started with the radiator.

stuntman said:
What's your alignment?

Also invest in a PROBE type tire pyrometer and learn how to use it to dial in pressures and alignments.

You will get A LOT more rear grip going to a 265-275 rear tire, and yes even on street tires, get the baffled oil pan.

When sliding, there is a FINE line between loading the rear tires with a TINY bit of throttle and asking the rear tire to accelerate and corner -which reduces rear grip and makes things worse. 99% of the time it is better to get off the throttle. The fact I could hear you on throttle when sliding means you made the problem worse and prolonged the slide. Now your fast lap had a tiny correction and that was fine. The examples after the complete lap, you shouldn't be on throttle

When you lose rear grip, staying off throttle transfers the weight to the front of the car, this gives the front tires more grip to send the car where the front tires are pointed and asks the rear tires to only do one thing -corner. So "when in doubt, both feet out" -And steer in the direction you want to go, not the direction you're heading will save you more often than not, and save you far more than trying to keep weight on the rear while staying on throttle.

I'm on factory 93+ alignment.

Hmm okay. Will keep all that in mind for the next track day.

Dhalsim · 29 September 2016

Zygrene said:
I'm leaning towards Dec. 11 track day. We'll be well rested with a full belly.

Actually it looks like I will be signing up for the 11/26 so I can get lessons from the great Jamin Taco. Looks like we will have another NSX owner also coming out for his first time that day.

CB72 · 30 September 2016

I agree with [MENTION=16531]stuntman[/MENTION], double check your alignment first.
When my NSX was stock it would oversteer incredibly quickly because the front axle was set with toe-in vs toe-out...
Next get some proper tires as some brands get very rubbery as soon as they heat up.
As for the overheating, make sure you take your front number plate off before going on track.
BTW and for what it's worth, I've been tracking my car for years with the OEM oil pan and the OEM suspension bushings.
You might find this usefull also:
http://driver61.com/uni/corner-phases/

Zygrene · 30 September 2016

Dhalsim said:
Actually it looks like I will be signing up for the 11/26 so I can get lessons from the great Jamin Taco. Looks like we will have another NSX owner also coming out for his first time that day.

Nice. Wish I could go on 11/26 but I'll be out of the country.

CB72 said:
I agree with @stuntman, double check your alignment first.
When my NSX was stock it would oversteer incredibly quickly because the front axle was set with toe-in vs toe-out...
Next get some proper tires as some brands get very rubbery as soon as they heat up.
As for the overheating, make sure you take your front number plate off before going on track.
BTW and for what it's worth, I've been tracking my car for years with the OEM oil pan and the OEM suspension bushings.
You might find this usefull also:
http://driver61.com/uni/corner-phases/

Here are my alignment settings from April:

My tires are fairly sticky and I don't run a front plate. Hopefully the MASiV does the trick. Good read on corner phases!

docjohn · 11 December 2016

what's with the frown?

mcano · 31 December 2016

Zygrene, what was you best time?

I just finished day one at Laguna Seca, and just got under 2 minutes. I hope to do better tomorrow!

Zygrene · 31 December 2016

Under 2 min for day 1 is pretty good with a stock NSX. My best was a 1:51. Probably won't track the NSX anymore though. Too risky.

mcano · 25 January 2017

Zygrene said:
Under 2 min for day 1 is pretty good with a stock NSX. My best was a 1:51. Probably won't track the NSX anymore though. Too risky.

I forgot to post my best time on the second day,which was a 1:54.778.

Zygrene · 27 January 2017

mcano said:
I forgot to post my best time on the second day,which was a 1:54.778.

Nice, did you get footage?

mcano · 27 January 2017

Zygrene said:
Nice, did you get footage?

I have been having problems with my GoPro 4 Black. The camera did not start recording when I pressed the start button. All I have are these short vds>

https://www.facebook.com/mario.cano...6649280801061/196648694134453/?type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/mario.cano...6649280801061/196649054134417/?type=3&theater

Tracking the NSX at Laguna Seca - Oversteer and Overheating

Zygrene

RYU

stuntman

Zygrene

Dhalsim

CB72

Zygrene

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