TALL Oil Filters

sca037 · 13 October 2016

I've seen some folks asking on this site for the OEM "tall" oil filters, and the ones that come up for sale are priced quite high.

I have been using the Denso 150-1013 oil filters in their place for a few years now in both of our NSX's, and they work just fine.

Just wanted to share, as they're readily available from Denso on Amazon.com for under $10......with free shipping if you are a Prime member;

https://www.amazon.com/Denso-150-10...qid=1476365854&sr=8-1&keywords=Denso+150-1013

Brian

RSO 34 · 13 October 2016

$5.95 at Napa (same as OEM - even the part number)

kennyvb · 13 October 2016

The OEM tall filter 15400-PL2-004 is still available in Japan for 15-20 USD so if you insist on using it, you can buy a case through your importer.

hkz286 · 14 October 2016

MAHLE also make the tall oil filter (they are the OEM manufacture for a lot of german companies, BMW, Porsche, Audi etc)

Mahle OC256

jaja · 15 October 2016

+1 on the Denso 150-1013

Thanks Brian

Also hkz286, MAHLE supplies many components on the new NSX btw!

Lucas

bullithollywood · 16 October 2016

RSO 34 said:
$5.95 at Napa (same as OEM - even the part number)

Not a bad filter but if you look close its not really the same as the OEM Tall. Diff Bypass press, significantly diff media and filter area.

nikey22 · 16 October 2016

bullithollywood said:
Not a bad filter but if you look close its not really the same as the OEM Tall. Diff Bypass press, significantly diff media and filter area.

most bypass events occur at start up anyways, regardless of the type of filter you have because of the cold oil that needs to get to the vital engine parts.
If you're changing the filter every 6mons, there won't be enough time for contaminant accumulation to cause an oil bypass event in transit (your oil pressure gauge reading will drop until you put in a new filter).

Does any actually know what the PSI cut-offs are of the OEM tall, OEM small and others? thanks..

Kaz-kzukNA1 · 16 October 2016

The relief valve inside the oil filter relies on the back pressure (pressure difference between the feed/forward oil before/after the filter element) and not the absolute oil pressure.
It’s very weak spring setting and when there is more than 1.0+/-0.3Kg/cm2 pressure difference happens, the relief valve will open.

Sometimes, people misunderstands this and thinks that the relief valve is always open at very high rpm which is not the case.

Kaz

ftuhy · 16 October 2016

Note that the Denso 150-1013 (in post#1 of this string) is available from RockAuto for $4.99 ea plus shipping.

bullithollywood · 16 October 2016

Kaz as usual is correct, the PSID is approx 1Bar or about 14lbs PSI differential across the filter. The NSX pumps 18GPM at 6000 RPM; for comparison Purolator tested their PureOne filter for a Corvette and produced 8.9PSID at 18GPM. I would venture a guess that the NSX at redline would probably do about 20GPM generating a little over 10lbs PSID. So at 1Bar there's ample headroom before the valve would open in this test; but the delta pressure is also dependent on the medias flow, oil temp and oil viscosity and the value that the valve actually opens is dependent on the aperture size and the springs strength.

I've tested quite a few filters (Bosche=Mann, Sangyo, Mahle, Purolator, Asakashi, Nippon Ultra, Nippon Micro, Denso) relative to the Tall OEM, I have yet to find one that is the "same" physically or functionally as the OEM tall, although some are closer than others.

POWERED by HONDA · 18 October 2016

bullithollywood said:
I've tested quite a few filters (Bosche=Mann, Sangyo, Mahle, Purolator, Asakashi, Nippon Ultra, Nippon Micro, Denso) relative to the Tall OEM, I have yet to find one that is the "same" physically or functionally as the OEM tall, although some are closer than others.

How does the OEM Shortie fare against the original Tall and all of these other tall wannabes?

rizzo · 18 October 2016

it makes me laugh at these fools asking $120 for a oem filter ( tall) and laugh even harder at the sucker who buys them

Mac Attack · 18 October 2016

bullithollywood said:
Kaz as usual is correct, the PSID is approx 1Bar or about 14lbs PSI differential across the filter. The NSX pumps 18GPM at 6000 RPM; for comparison Purolator tested their PureOne filter for a Corvette and produced 8.9PSID at 18GPM. I would venture a guess that the NSX at redline would probably do about 20GPM generating a little over 10lbs PSID.

Good argument, but FYI: The reason the NSX oil pump flow rate is specified at 6k RPM is that the pump internal bypass opens up right above that speed to recirculate the oil back to the intake. If you have an aftermarket oil pressure gauge you can confirm that the discharge pressure stays the same from about 6k to redline. Therefore, the maximum pump flow rate should be right around 18 gpm. This also helps your argument that there is ample headroom before challenging the oil filter internal bypass.

nis350 · 19 October 2016

same here....

sca037 said:
I've seen some folks asking on this site for the OEM "tall" oil filters, and the ones that come up for sale are priced quite high.

I have been using the Denso 150-1013 oil filters in their place for a few years now in both of our NSX's, and they work just fine.

Just wanted to share, as they're readily available from Denso on Amazon.com for under $10......with free shipping if you are a Prime member;

https://www.amazon.com/Denso-150-10...qid=1476365854&sr=8-1&keywords=Denso+150-1013

Brian

Wavey1 · 19 October 2016

nis350 said:
same here....

Same here. They've got some nice weight to them so they should have a heavy wall and plenty of filter media. The seal and base design is also really good; a quality embedded-lube seal and the base is designed so that you crank it as far as it can go and there is a built-in stop so you don't over-tighten. Good stuff.

nikey22 · 20 October 2016

bullithollywood said:
I've tested quite a few filters (Bosche=Mann, Sangyo, Mahle, Purolator, Asakashi, Nippon Ultra, Nippon Micro, Denso) relative to the Tall OEM, I have yet to find one that is the "same" physically or functionally as the OEM tall, although some are closer than others.

I'm curious which are the ones that come closest to OEM TALL in overall quality? Thanks.. The Nippon Ultra 8 has the Honda OEM part number right on it.

bullithollywood · 20 October 2016

nikey22 said:
I'm curious which are the ones that come closest to OEM TALL in overall quality? Thanks.. The Nippon Ultra 8 has the Honda OEM part number right on it.

In overall quality only the OEM short (Toyo Roki mfg) and Baldwin filters match the build quality of the OEM Tall. Bottom of the barrel in construction were the Bosche/Mann/Purolator which are flimsy as coke cans and are really the same filters internally, filter media is typically denser and genrally flow less than Asian brands.

In the end the filters with what I felt were the most similar important features relative to the OEM Tall (my personal feature precedence was: media, construction quality, media area, bypass cracking pressure and apparent relief capacity) I found those were #1 the OEM short tied with the ASAKASHI, #2 Nippon Micro Filter, #3 Baldwin, #4 Ultra-8, #5 Union Sangyo #6 Denso. I wouldn't use most of the other common filters for the NSX ( ie. Bosche, Mann, Mahle, Purolator because in addition to less flow were relatively so cheaply made that I suspect everything else is skimpy as well no matter what the advertising hype says).

That said I think you can use any of the preferred filters with confidence and when in doubt Mother Honda is always a safe bet. I personally have a lifetime (mine) of Nippon Micro Filter (my favorite but hard to get outside Japan) and ASAKASHIs set aside because I like their greater media area and a little more oil in the filter at startup over the OEM Short.

Your results may vary.

vivanshah · 21 May 2017

bullithollywood said:
In overall quality only the OEM short (Toyo Roki mfg) and Baldwin filters match the build quality of the OEM Tall. Bottom of the barrel in construction were the Bosche/Mann/Purolator which are flimsy as coke cans and are really the same filters internally, filter media is typically denser and genrally flow less than Asian brands.

In the end the filters with what I felt were the most similar important features relative to the OEM Tall (my personal feature precedence was: media, construction quality, media area, bypass cracking pressure and apparent relief capacity) I found those were [URL=http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] the OEM short tied with the ASAKASHI, [URL=http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=2]#2 [/URL] Nippon Micro Filter, #3 Baldwin, #4 Ultra-8, #5 Union Sangyo #6 Denso. I wouldn't use most of the other common filters for the NSX ( ie. Bosche, Mann, Mahle, Purolator because in addition to less flow were relatively so cheaply made that I suspect everything else is skimpy as well no matter what the advertising hype says).

That said I think you can use any of the preferred filters with confidence and when in doubt Mother Honda is always a safe bet. I personally have a lifetime (mine) of Nippon Micro Filter (my favorite but hard to get outside Japan) and ASAKASHIs set aside because I like their greater media area and a little more oil in the filter at startup over the OEM Short.

Your results may vary.

[MENTION=23995]bullithollywood[/MENTION]
Why is Nippon Micro your favorite, but ranked #2 , while the JS Asakashi is tied for #1 with the OEM Short?

vivanshah · 21 May 2017

this might be bad news. Looks like the part number no longer exists in Denso's latest catalog:

bullithollywood · 23 May 2017

vivanshah said:
@bullithollywood
Why is Nippon Micro your favorite, but ranked #2 , while the JS Asakashi is tied for #1 with the OEM Short?

The Asakashi appears to have better filter media (very close in density and flow to the OEM, simple gravity flow now not a true flow test) but the sample I tested had some paint overspray inside the can and a bit of rust inside, plus the the screw threads were rough. Little things like this made me wonder about the quality and consistency, they're outsourced by Asakashi and not made in Japan. The OEM Honda is , well, the OEM, and essentially identical to the tall just shorter and a cracking pressure is a bit less, you can't go wrong with it. THe Nippon Micro is Japanese made, very solid and well constructed, I looked at more than one to be sure, it has the largest media area of them all and the bypass specs are spot on the OEM. I prefer the the bigger can capacity at startup. Also the media has a unique pleat design that I've only every seen in the TOYO-ROKI OEMs, so I suspect its the same media manufacturer, but the media in the NIPPONs is not as dense so flow is preferred rather than single pass filtration in them. I like flow.

mwagner10702 · 23 May 2017

bullithollywood said:
The Asakashi appears to have better filter media (very close in density and flow to the OEM, simple gravity flow now not a true flow test) but the sample I tested had some paint overspray inside the can and a bit of rust inside, plus the the screw threads were rough. Little things like this made me wonder about the quality and consistency, they're outsourced by Asakashi and not made in Japan. The OEM Honda is , well, the OEM, and essentially identical to the tall just shorter and a cracking pressure is a bit less, you can't go wrong with it. THe Nippon Micro is Japanese made, very solid and well constructed, I looked at more than one to be sure, it has the largest media area of them all and the bypass specs are spot on the OEM. I prefer the the bigger can capacity at startup. Also the media has a unique pleat design that I've only every seen in the TOYO-ROKI OEMs, so I suspect its the same media manufacturer, but the media in the NIPPONs is not as dense so flow is preferred rather than single pass filtration in them. I like flow.

Apparently the OEM short is now assembled in the USA. Not sure if that is good or bad. Stamped FILTECH, INC on the canister. FILTECH changed their name to ROKI AMERICA Co, Ltd. in 2011. Maybe this is the same as the TOYO-ROKI OEMs you referred to.

View attachment 144538

The Nippon Micro is available through the NSX Shop.

View attachment 144539

https://www.thensxshop.com/others/nippon-micro-t60-oil-filter

Based on your analysis I'm going to order a couple Nippon Micro filters. Seems better than the JS Asakashi filters.

TALL Oil Filters

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