I'm sold...

I would guide not to use average sales yet as we are just getting to the target production rates

so far we have a decent sense that production had been 2/3 for the U.S.

we we have no idea how they have been bopping out cars for other markets

essentially they are mixing in a few cars for country/region x in between US production

they had a priority to get a coverage unit car to each US dealer in the program

i haven't seen anything on their plans to serve the ex US folks except that the UK folks were screwed and are getting one cars until 2017

regarding the resales, that is a really noisy category as you cave cars bought new by acura and specialty store owners, sold by/traded in by first owners (for whatever reason) and non acura affiliated owners flipping the car themselves

9spd said:

But even a basic car like that is in 911 Turbo, Audi R8 V10 and AMG GT S territory. The NSX lacks the performance, intoxicating sound, or aggressive pricing to really stand out among the competition.

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But if the NSX can compete on level terms with the R8 V10+ it shouldn't have any problem with the base R8. At this point it looks like the 911 Turbo S is faster than the NSX both in a straight line (0-60 and quarter mile) and around a race track but the regular 911 Turbo? Jury's out.

I think at $156k the NSX is a solid deal. Optioned out to $200k, less so. Unfortunately this means that when the auto media is testing optioned out NSX's against the competition it makes the car look like a poor value. The option-everything game is great for profit, but bad for comparos.

Also, I wonder when steel brakes are going to become available. Seems like some Acura folks didn't understand why some customers would not want CCB's.

In my update last week I mentioned that Brembo is experiencing some delay in being able to provide the steel brakes

i will try to get an update next week

G.Irish said:

But if the NSX can compete on level terms with the R8 V10+ it shouldn't have any problem with the base R8. At this point it looks like the 911 Turbo S is faster than the NSX both in a straight line (0-60 and quarter mile) and around a race track but the regular 911 Turbo? Jury's out.

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The Base R8 has the NA V10 sound, that's their unique selling proposition. Highly desirable in that market segment. Also tuning is available to bring it to V10+ power level.

The NSX also has a unique selling proposition for being a hybrid, but not quite a PHEV. Perhaps not as desirable in the exotic segment.

The 911 Turbo seems to be very competitive around a tight track, but I would stop short of saying that it is definitely faster. Just not enough sample size.

G.Irish said:

Seems like some Acura folks didn't understand why some customers would not want CCB's.

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If I track the car, the CCB can overheat and be very costly to replace. If I don't track the car then I most likely won't see the benefit from CCB, except the weight saving which is significant. But if I really care that much about weight I wouldn't be looking at the NSX in the first place would I.

9spd said:

The Base R8 has the NA V10 sound, that's their unique selling proposition. Highly desirable in that market segment. Also tuning is available to bring it to V10+ power level.

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Yeah that V10 really does sound fabulous. I only got a chance to try it in a Huracan but I really like that engine. Problem the R8 has is that the styling doesn't really improve much on the original. Ferrari and Porsche can get away with having a new generation look a lot or exactly like the old but I think it hurts Audi here.

If I track the car, the CCB can overheat and be very costly to replace. If I don't track the car then I most likely won't see the benefit from CCB, except the weight saving which is significant. But if I really care that much about weight I wouldn't be looking at the NSX in the first place would I.

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Yeah I'd like to see real world experiences with the NSX's CCB's. I know some other supercar owners have had significantly reduced life on their CCB's due to brake torque-vectoring, then you have the incidents where the brakes get chipped by a rock or something. Hopefully the NSX CCB's work as advertised but I'm not totally sold on 'em and would happily take a car without them.

G.Irish said:

I think at $156k the NSX is a solid deal. Optioned out to $200k, less so. Unfortunately this means that when the auto media is testing optioned out NSX's against the competition it makes the car look like a poor value. The option-everything game is great for profit, but bad for comparos.

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in at least several comparisons tests so far, that the NSX is costing more than the R8 and 911 Turbo the way it's optioned out. as you've said, i don't think that's good. Audi and Porsche can get away with that, i don't think Acura can...

Bricks and Bio said:

so far we have a decent sense that production had been 2/3 for the U.S.

we have no idea how they have been bopping out cars for other markets

essentially they are mixing in a few cars for country/region x in between US production

they had a priority to get a coverage unit car to each US dealer in the program

i haven't seen anything on their plans to serve the ex US folks except that the UK folks were screwed and are getting one cars until 2017

regarding the resales, that is a really noisy category as you cave cars bought new by acura and specialty store owners, sold by/traded in by first owners (for whatever reason) and non acura affiliated owners flipping the car themselves

Click to expand...

so does anyone know what the actual sales are to this point? how many of the 800 cars have been produced? and how many are actually sold, as opposed to sitting on showroom floors?

Yes, I mentioned recently that the US sales were 67 for October and 150 YTD

Here are some tricks for nicely optioning the car to keep the price down, mine was $173,300

130R white paint, no upcharge
electric seats with alcantara
hifi upgrade, park sensors and nav, skipping sat radio upcharge
carbo ceramic brakes with black calipers, skipping the caliper color upcharge
alcantara headliner, gotta max out the alcantara, a break down in discipline for me
Y spoke wheels, no upcharge

the only thing that i would add to your list is the carbon fiber interior trim. all the CF exterior pieces and engine cover arent necessary.

we ordered our next 2 cars without any of the CF exterior stuff. it doesn't add that much flair to the car.

Another existing element in NSX sales that is going on right now is the attainability of two types of available high performance cars on the used car market right that are around the same price or below that of the NSX and will most likely not depreciate as much as a new NSX:
1) Mclaren MP4-12c (very low mileage ones going for around $150K - $185K (Most if not all will also drop their price another $10K if you are serious. I know because just in contacting two 2013/4 MP4 owners on cars.com I have received several emails decreasing the car close to $10K)Many available
2) Audi R8 (V10) used (2014/15 with low miles around $150-$140) Many available

After reading threads on several forums on deciding to buy NSX, etc.., those are the two competitors that folks SEEM to be choosing based on car forums. I was extremely close to building a new NSX a few weeks ago and now have 7 Acura dealerships emailing me on building or selling what is on their lot. I am afraid of how much value will drop in the first year of ownership and am deciding to wait to allow someone else to take that hit. I still prefer the NSX to any other car due to my love for Honda products, owning a previous NSX and the other reasons why the new one is amazing. ( I know... "you only live once"... "You should expect to lose $30K+ when you buy a new exotic..." but I am seeing a new one take a huge hit in value.. I'm thinking I'd rather pick up a low optioned one for about $120K in a year instead of $160K right now)

powdbyrice said:

the only thing that i would add to your list is the carbon fiber interior trim. all the CF exterior pieces and engine cover arent necessary.

we ordered our next 2 cars without any of the CF exterior stuff. it doesn't add that much flair to the car.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

All those CF pieces don't really shed much, if any weight as the "normal" parts aren't heavy to begin with. They don't exactly improve performance. If we are talking about full carbon fibre body panels, then may be it will help. Of all options, the only thing that is necessary for performance is the carbon ceramic brake option. A $167,700 NSX would perform very similarly to a $200k+ NSX.

That is really what I am getting at.

I added options that would made the care "nicer" and stopped there.

The CF options are sweet and I am sure folks who got them will enjoy them.

I was more about getting an NSX into my garage.

My experience with carbon fiber exterior bits is they sometimes don't stand up to UV and weathering very well.
The carbon roof panel, for example, in heat, sunlight, rain etc. might not hold up appearance wise over time.

Esprit9 said:

I'm thinking I'd rather pick up a low optioned one for about $120K in a year instead of $160K right now)

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can't argue with that logic...

Bricks and Bio said:

Yes, I mentioned recently that the US sales were 67 for October and 150 YTD

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150 in the hands of owners?

JD Cross said:

My experience with carbon fiber exterior bits is they sometimes don't stand up to UV and weathering very well.
The carbon roof panel, for example, in heat, sunlight, rain etc. might not hold up appearance wise over time.

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should look into clear bra'ing that

fastaussie said:

150 in the hands of owners?

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Yes.
Every indication is that sales numbers reported by Honda reflect vehicles delivered to owners, not deliveries to dealers.
http://hondanews.com/channels/corpo...nues-to-power-american-honda-sales-in-October

yoojeankim said:

should look into clear bra'ing that

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Do clear bras have a UV blocking aspect? My experience with CF is that sun damage happens internally, not just on the surface. But that was on an aftermarket part - something from a manufacturer might have much better resistance to such damage.

Cars.com has 17 used ones for sale.

Of these, one is from an owner, and a second looks like a new car at a Honda store.

Couple this to the eBay action, probably 15-20% of the coverage cars sold are probably not in the hands of end users.

Esprit9 said:

I'm thinking I'd rather pick up a low optioned one for about $120K in a year instead of $160K right now)

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My friend said the same thing when 918 came out.



I know they are different animals :biggrin::biggrin:

Esprit9 said:

I am afraid of how much value will drop in the first year of ownership and am deciding to wait to allow someone else to take that hit. " but I am seeing a new one take a huge hit in value. I'm thinking I'd rather pick up a low optioned one for about $120K in a year instead of $160K right now)

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I wonder if you realize how cavalier your comments sound to new owners.
There are people on the forum who have paid MSRP or more and here you are saying you hope they take a financial hit so you can benefit.

yoojeankim said:

should look into clear bra'ing that

Click to expand...

I agree with Elistan.
I don't think clear wrap does much to stop UV.
A black carbon fiber roof in a 100 degree day is going to get very hot and suspect sun damage is likely.
Does your experience with clear wrap on carbon fiber suggest it will stop the degradation?

topman2005 said:

My friend said the same thing when 918 came out.
I know they are different animals :biggrin::biggrin:

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Actually, the 918 didn't sell well initially. It was also the cheapest of the three Holy Trinity (918, P1, and LaFerrari). In some ways, the Carrera GT also didn't do as well as Porsche had anticipated. The CGT initially depreciated in the used market until price bounced back up.

Perhaps a combination of many factors like the sub 7 minute Ring time, scarcity and appreciation of the P1 and LaF contributed, being a targa top and possibly the last NA V8 from Porsche for a long time or ever, all help contributed to the price appreciation.

JD Cross said:

I wonder if you realize how cavalier your comments sound to new owners.
There are people on the forum who have paid MSRP or more and here you are saying you hope they take a financial hit so you can benefit.

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But for these whom paid MSRP or more, do they honestly expect to make money on the NSX in the short term?

If not, then the question becomes how quickly and by how much the NSX is going to depreciate. Same can be said for people paid MSRP or over on other cars, such as the Focus RS, Hellcats, M2/M3/M4/M5, GT3/RS, Ferrari...etc.

9spd said:

But for these whom paid MSRP or more, do they honestly expect to make money on the NSX in the short term?
If not, then the question becomes how quickly and by how much the NSX is going to depreciate. Same can be said for people paid MSRP or over on other cars, such as the Focus RS, Hellcats, M2/M3/M4/M5, GT3/RS, Ferrari...etc.

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Of course new owners of any marque realize their car will lose value after they drive it off the showroom floor.
And there's always those who will hold off purchasing new and wait until the find a good used depreciated unit to acquire at less cost.

My point is without early adopters stepping up and taking the risk to buy a new NSX (or 918 or?) there will be no depreciated cars available down the road or possibly no cars at all if it doesn't sell and is discontinued.
So rather than tell us how astute you are in waiting for a cheaper NSX or your possible plan to grace another marque with your ownership, how about showing some consideration for those who have bought the new NSX and are (literally) waiting for the paint to dry before you tell them about all the money they will be losing when you show up to buy.

9spd said:

But for these whom paid MSRP or more, do they honestly expect to make money on the NSX in the short term?

If not, then the question becomes how quickly and by how much the NSX is going to depreciate. Same can be said for people paid MSRP or over on other cars, such as the Focus RS, Hellcats, M2/M3/M4/M5, GT3/RS, Ferrari...etc.

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That's not even a question. Fairly certain that people here who are purchasing the NSX2 aren't worried about future resale value. Go buy a NSX1 if you want to make short term money.

Save for the 911R, nothing that you listed is going to make you money in the short term. Even the pricing on the GT3RS/Cayman GT4 has come down. M4GT4 might be collectable years down the road. Ferraris always will be.