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ScienceofSpeed Dyno Tests 2017 NSX

Joined
19 January 2001
Messages
8,241
Location
Chandler, AZ
One of the primary reasons we selected the engineering grade Superflow AWD-30 chassis dyno was the system's mechanically driveshaft coupled front and rear rollsets. This is one of the most advanced and accurate chassis dynamometers on the market. The mechanically linked rollsets allow advanced all wheel drive vehicles like the 2017 NSX to be tested as if it were on a road.

We had our first opportunity to baseline a 2017 Acura NSX at our Chandler, AZ facility at our recent open house meet. Thank you to local customer Kevin L. in allowing us to use his fully loaded 130R White 2017 NSX for testing. Dyno plot showing horsepower and torque (both SAE corrected) at the wheels, as well as manifold (boost) pressure, and AFR. The first most striking difference compared to a conventional gasoline engine is the enormous torque generated at low engine speeds due to the electrically assisted powertrain. The second point of interest is seeing how the turbochargers (which are electrically controlled) are limited to achieving peak pressure until 6000 RPM. Perhaps this is due to concerns of drivetrain reliability or the "smoothness" of the power delivery as the electric motor assist tapers off. The last point of reference is the power number, which is 415 - an average of the multiple test runs completed. The factory car is rated at 575 BHP total net system power. The car was tested in 4th gear - and it is conceivable that the electric motors are decoupled at certain wheel speeds (the car at rev-limiter in 4th gear is traveling nearly 120 MPH) for reliability. Perhaps lower gears would have maintained electrical assist allowing a greater peak horsepower number.

At the moment, we are already in development on cosmetic, exhaust system, and suspension upgrades for the 2017 NSX. We are also in early stages of exciting ECU tuning capability. We look forward to applying our 15 years of experience to this new platform!

Photo credits: John Bazay Photography & Design (IG: [MENTION=6794]JohnB[/MENTION]azay).

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That's a nice power curve for sure. Nice to see it makes power all the way to the redline 7500 which is impressive for a twin turbo V6. I'm disappointed that the number is low considering Honda's own dyno showed about 500 whp. There shouldn't be much drivetrain loss considering the nature of the SH-AWD. Nonetheless these numbers are somewhat reflective of the modest acceleration numbers.

I really think Honda should have chose bigger turbos with a bit more peak hp seeing as how the bottom end torque is very meaty thanks to the electrice motors.
 
Just wondering if you guys had a chance to test a NA1/NA2 on the same dyno for comparison sakes?

415whp is a massive disappointment if the 573 advertised hp has stipulations.
 
That seems completely fair for a 200,000 dollar car... All one needs now is upgrades to void the warranty.
 
This is the second Hondacura product with lots of low-end torque, the first being the RLX Sport Hybrid. I like the result and thanks for sharing. As for the number, I am unconcerned about it as different dynos give different results, as most are aware, I'm sure. I'm sure if you tested it on Honda's own dynamometer, you'd get closer to their result.
 
This is the second Hondacura product with lots of low-end torque, the first being the RLX Sport Hybrid. I like the result and thanks for sharing. As for the number, I am unconcerned about it as different dynos give different results, as most are aware, I'm sure. I'm sure if you tested it on Honda's own dynamometer, you'd get closer to their result.

This car is indeed making this amount of power and torque at the wheels. This is a calibrated dyno and is accurate to within +/- 2 lb/ft in our tests (the calibration can be checked with a lever arm and calibration weights). However, as others have pointed out - the "total net system power" is open for interpretation. Does 575 horsepower mean 500 horsepower at the engine plus 75 horsepower at the electric motors in all gears? Or does this mean 575 horsepower in only gears lower than 3rd (which this testing supports)? There is no "standard" for marketing numbers for this and other hybrid powertrain vehicles.
 
the car with two average adults , a tuning fork and reflex hammer in the trunk,......will weigh 4200 lbs..so the car really needs more whp.....just sayin..
 
is there physics occurring with 4 wheel drive dynos that is over my brain capacity:redface::confused:
 
[MENTION=4260]ScienceofSpeed[/MENTION] - what does a stock NA1 & NA2 make on your dyno? What about any other commonly dynoed stock car (M3, Mustang GT, Corvette, etc...)?




fwiw, 2015 Mustang GT's typically make around ~380whp SAE on a dynojet & 370-375whp on a superflow.
 
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^that car isn't stock. Chris responded to my question on Facebook and said stock 3.0s make 200-210whp & 3.2s make 320-330whp. That's about 10-20whp lower than most Dynojets.

It's probably safe to say on a higher reading dynojet, which is more common, the new NSX would probably dyno at 430-440whp.


0.02
 
Strange question. If you have one electric motor driving one wheel with 45 hp (front left), if you add a second electric motor driving another wheel with 45 hp with no connection to the other wheel (front right), do you have 90 hp now or do you still only have total 45 hp or somewhere in between?
 
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The electric motors contribute at a lower RPM, not redline. So while total power is 573hp (500 + 73 from electric), the peak power is only 500hp from the Ice motor. It's a bit confusing.
 
ok so on sos dyno the drive-train loss is about 17%......
 
More power is always better, but the real-world performance is driven more by "area under the curve" than peak output. With the new hybrid drivetrains, perhaps a better measure of "real world" power should be determined with reference to vehicle weight and 1/4 mile time and trap speed. The scale and the stopwatch (on actual asphalt) is a better equalizer than the dyno, especially when comparing RWD ICE cars with AWD Hybrids.

I realize that the new NSX is not a "world beater" in 1/4 time or trap speed. Just suggesting that it might be a better common denominator.

That said, "baseline" dynos can be a useful metric for tuners-- but ultimately "tuner gains" need to show up in 1/4 times and speeds.
 
The french "Sport Auto" magazine measures most of the supercars around the Le Mans Bugatti track with a professional driver.
The fastest car ever tested is the Porsche 918 spyder managing a 1'42''63 second lap.
By comparaison the Ferrari 488 GTB is in 4th position with 1'44''28 and a Porsche 911 GT2 RS is in 10th position with a 1'47"08.
Now to what extent can the 2017 NSX replicate the performance of the 918 syder remains to be seen?
 
This car is indeed making this amount of power and torque at the wheels. This is a calibrated dyno and is accurate to within +/- 2 lb/ft in our tests (the calibration can be checked with a lever arm and calibration weights). However, as others have pointed out - the "total net system power" is open for interpretation. Does 575 horsepower mean 500 horsepower at the engine plus 75 horsepower at the electric motors in all gears? Or does this mean 575 horsepower in only gears lower than 3rd (which this testing supports)? There is no "standard" for marketing numbers for this and other hybrid powertrain vehicles.

Yup. We have had many debates on Acurazine's RLX forum about "total net system power" as well. All I can say is that the much heavier (4300 pounds total) RLX Sport Hybrid with just me in it, has nice low-end power and I don't have to rev it to move the car. I do appreciate your sharing that dyno. ;)


the car with two average adults , a tuning fork and reflex hammer in the trunk,......will weigh 4200 lbs..so the car really needs more whp.....just sayin..

ROFL
 
So nice to see a US tuner using a super flow dyno rather than the awful dynojet which is famously and intentionally inaccurate.

can you please confirm when you say it made X power if you are talking about wheels or flywheel.

The 500 ice horsepower quoted by the manufacturer is flywheel horsepower. As is the 575 which adds in the contribution from the motors at the point of peak engine power.

We've been having this argument in relation to gtr tuning for years. For some reason in the US stock gtrs seem to make the claimed manufacturers flywheel power figures at the wheels when run on a dynojet so people think they are accurate and ignore the fact that power at the wheels is meant to be lower.

The superflow is a great start for a genuine at the wheels power figure, if wanting to back calculate the power at the flywheel from a wheel power measurement, the minimum dyno to use is a MAHA MSR500. Most manufacturers flywheel figures are quoted by testing the finished car on one of these.
 
Ps. I am trying to get a car over to ecutek in the uk. They are about the best stock ecu hackers in the world.

if this car can be modded to make more power, it could be seriously interesting. At the moment, the stock performance just isn't exciting for me.
 
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This car is indeed making this amount of power and torque at the wheels. This is a calibrated dyno and is accurate to within +/- 2 lb/ft in our tests (the calibration can be checked with a lever arm and calibration weights). However, as others have pointed out - the "total net system power" is open for interpretation. Does 575 horsepower mean 500 horsepower at the engine plus 75 horsepower at the electric motors in all gears? Or does this mean 575 horsepower in only gears lower than 3rd (which this testing supports)? There is no "standard" for marketing numbers for this and other hybrid powertrain vehicles.

I do remember reading a few times that Hybrid advertised power can vary on how you extrapolate the numbers. In Honda's case they mentioned that they consider the fair and honest way is to show a number where they reach the most hp in total along the rpm band.. Other manufacturers might take the max engine hp, then simply add the max electric hp and reach a inflated number. So if you added the NSX engine max hp with the total hp of electric system you would be over the advertised 575.. But 575 is where the highest total number they achieved from all sources at the same time, at whatever rpm that is..
Hope I explained that correctly.. Also they have already confirmed electric power only works up to a certain speed, I'm pretty sure in 4th gear at those speeds the electic motors are off, explaining the low number, but even still I would think the pedigree of that motor alone would be higher than that number.
Although Honda did also say that this powerplant has lot of headroom for upping power over the years, me thinks they have the wick turned down on this car. I imagine more efficient batteries, electric motors, and turning up boost and launch RPM has much potential for seriously faster acceleration..
I just wonder how tuning will go with these powerplants, not really much to judge from what's out there, not like there's a huge aftermarket for the 918 to go by..
 
Dynojets do read high, but atleast they are consistent. Since there are so many around it's a nice benchmark for comparing different cars and regions due to all the data points. While Superflow may be more accurate, consistency and apples:apples comparisons are key. And there are far more Dynojets than Superflow. FWIW, NASCAR teams primarily use Dynojets for rolling dynos. They are consistent and comparable to all of the other Dynojets a given team may own.
 
I hope the "NC2" next mid cycle update on the NSX has stronger electric motors.. where they actually assist in acceleration past 55mph. I think that's the only way the platform makes sense.

I thought they assist over 100mph. Maybe 120
 
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