New NSX is not selling? it's overpriced?

chrisn said:

I was looking at the Car and Driver numbers for these cars as a source of relative comparison. The gaps between the R8V10+ and NSX aren't as big as you are quoting. Also, FWIW, the NSX is faster than the 458 in every dimension and yet no one would pick the NSX over it simply for being a bit faster in every way. Same logic when comparing the R8 and NSX.

If a NSX Type R (or whatever) comes out in two years and it is as much faster than the R8V10+ (which will still be the top of the line R8 at that time) as the top R8 is faster than the "base" NSX, will you immediately say the NSX is the better car?

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the gaps i quoted are from highly reputable magazine tests (Road & Track, Motor Trend, etc.). i have several print copies at home myself, some have been photographed and posted on these forums, and we have all seen the YouTube reviews from said publications. the performance gaps are exactly that big. we've all seen the tests, numbers do not lie, sorry but there's no rationalising that.

the 458 is 8 years old. one would hope the brand new, just released NSX would be faster in every regard. however it is not always. stock 458's have gone 3 seconds flat 0-to-60, and quicker than the NSX in the 1/4 mile. they also have a higher top speed. the Speciale is faster yet in every way than the base car. so your assessment would be wrong.

i would agree with you that very few people would pick the new NSX over a 458. the Ferrari has so much more of all the right stuff in all the right ways.

however, if Honda builds a Type R and it is a better car than the others, i would immediately say it's the better car, absolutely...

MasterNSXTech said:

I beg to differ. I am constantly running into situations where I can't get a part for those anymore.

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Couldnt agree more, this is one reason i will be selling my 92

goldNSX said:

Well, you still can get the parts if you ordered a so called 'critical order' or how it is called (got the expression from prime). Years ago it wasn't easy to order parts from Japan.

Funny thing: for my gearbox revision I couldn't get some special tools in Japan but they are still available in the US.

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Critical back order is the term you're thinking of I bet. That still only applies within American Honda though. It means if there's a part laying around anywhere in American Honda's reach they'll get it, be it at a distribution center, collecting dust on some other dealer's shelf, or if it's a current production vehicle they get it right off the production line in extreme cases. But they have no ability to pull from Honda Japan or even Honda Canada.

NetViper said:

Having sat in both the nsx and r8 v10 plus I would say the interior of the Audi felt cramped and not particularly high end. It wasn't cheap, but it wasn't as nice as my s6. The new nsx feels much more spacious and the quality of the interior is as good as Audi. No question though about the sound, the r8 sounds way better.

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Of course it does. The nsx uses tubes and trickery to try to make it sound good. I just don't know what it is about the car. When it first dropped ,I liked it. Then it came in at a striking price, then dealers started their bullshit, then Honda discontinued our old clutches in the states, etc, etc, the more I look at it and read about it, the less I like it. The whole car is just a generic video game on wheels. Just my opinion on it.

If it was a few thousand over a gtr price, sure I would like one. But why pay top dollar for imitation sound and sorry but the electric motors is imitation performance in this specific car. They do not help it off the line against the R8, maybe a couple feet before it gets it's chubby doors blown off and it most certainly doesn't help it in weight. It also does not help it in the corners as we have seen against lightweight high power competition on the track. There is just something seriously lacking here for such serious tech?

NetViper said:

..... The new nsx feels much more spacious and the quality of the interior is as good as Audi...

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Sat in both and now have a new R8 (on its way..) and can tell you hands down the R8 interior is much better. Every knob, paddle, etc.. is better on the R8 and the infotainment and that bang and olufsen in the R8 are at another level compared to the NSX . But the NSX exterior is a bit better on the lines... but... the R8 exterior keeps growing on me the more I see it.

vs NSX

Sorry, R8 interior looks like every other Audi, right down to that goofy gear selector.

Jinks said:

Of course it does. The nsx uses tubes and trickery to try to make it sound good. I just don't know what it is about the car. When it first dropped ,I liked it. Then it came in at a striking price, then dealers started their bullshit, then Honda discontinued our old clutches in the states, etc, etc, the more I look at it and read about it, the less I like it. The whole car is just a generic video game on wheels. Just my opinion on it.

If it was a few thousand over a gtr price, sure I would like one. But why pay top dollar for imitation sound and sorry but the electric motors is imitation performance in this specific car. They do not help it off the line against the R8, maybe a couple feet before it gets it's chubby doors blown off and it most certainly doesn't help it in weight. It also does not help it in the corners as we have seen against lightweight high power competition on the track. There is just something seriously lacking here for such serious tech?

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I do understand the disappoint toward the car from the many angles that you and others have reiterated. There is no doubt it's a technical tour-de-force that immediately alienates some used to the visceral simplicity of the first NSX, and also clearly some of the current 'simpler' competitors. The ideology behind the new car's design is typically 'Japanese' in approach which means some will love it, and others just won't. In some ways it's an 'odd' car, although I do like the look of it - but it is upfront very expensive I suspect because of all the hybrid gear and tech trickery, and NO DOUBT this will be one very expensive car to maintain in the longer term. I'd be very interested to hear your opinion if you ever get an opportunity to drive one - I'm certainly looking forward to doing so, alongside the offerings from the many competing marques mentioned in these forums, - however I'm still intrigued by the unique tech of the NSX - my background is electronics and computing so it fascinates for that reason.

But that aside, I see the same forum narratives going round and round the same circles. The FastAussie always spins the same BS around unverified anecdotes from his 'expert mates who do all the reviews of this car that we the plebs get to read', and he continually likes to remind us of any reported negative slight, as though needing to confirm his personal bias and those of his 'expert mates'. He even quoted one of them a while back (Andy or Randy someone), as saying the exact opposite to that which said reviewer spoke live on his You tube review, which says a lot about the integrity of either the reviewer or the one reporting his supposed of-the-record comments. FA's lack of intelligent engagement with ideas outside his repetitive stanza that Honda has 'farked-up bigtime' reminds of the boorish, Australian Super Touring Car Holden vs Ford tribal rhetoric; that's about dissing the 'other' because 'we don't like em'. Despite the multiple well-reasoned discourses here around why the car might not be selling like 911 hotcakes - i.e. Honda's targeted demographic, it's deliberate esoteric design values aimed to make it DIFFERENT and NOT a direct competitor, a cautious slowdown in across board sales, lack of developed cult awareness, lack of availability outside US, it's first iteration, commitment from Honda to develop the car, including feedback from GT3 development etc etc, seems to have little or no impact whatsoever on the one-track XXXX-in-hand, Bathurst bank barker. The worn grove gets a little tedious after awhile.

nsx#fan said:

Sorry, R8 interior looks like every other Audi, right down to that goofy gear selector.

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I do agree that the square gear knob on gen2 Audi's are a bit goofy but come on... MDX, TLX, etc, all have better interiors.. the NSX is very "plastic" feeling on many buttons, etc.. the paddle shifters are out of a 2005 Honda. Sorry.. even certain dealers were sharing same feeling when I was shopping around.. NSX is still Ana amazing car but little R&D was spent on interior tech and refinement on a $160k+ car...


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@ Kendallj...I must say, this one of the best comments I have read on this entire thread with respect to the new NSX.
I have the same background as you an I agree 100%.

Bram

nsx#fan said:

Sorry, R8 interior looks like every other Audi, right down to that goofy gear selector.

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having owned several audis.....their interiors are consistently some of the best in the industry....the nsx isnt at the same level of refinement and choice of materials....im sure there is parts bin usage in buttons ect, but same can be said for the acura.

Bram said:

@ Kendallj...I must say, this one of the best comments I have read on this entire thread with respect to the new NSX.
I have the same background as you an I agree 100%.

Bram

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Guess that puts me on the opposite end from you folks, BS/MS EE here with system/architecture level design experience in HW/SW, 25+ years engineering experience.

I wan't nothing to do with the NSX2.0 as it stands because I have a good understanding of the underlying complexity of the technology that is involved.

BTW: There might be folks who might not have an academic/technical background but that doesn't prevent them from having actual valuable information and constructive feedback.

2slow2speed said:

Guess that puts me on the opposite end from you folks, BS/MS EE here with system/architecture level design experience in HW/SW, 25+ years engineering experience.

I wan't nothing to do with the NSX2.0 as it stands because I have a good understanding of the underlying complexity of the technology that is involved.

BTW: There might be folks who might not have an academic/technical background but that doesn't prevent them from having actual valuable information and constructive feedback.

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Thanks for saying this. I was just about to post asking if I was the only engineer who felt this way.

(programming since 1973 here, for a living since 1980, several decades of it at electronics companies)

kendallj said:

But that aside, I see the same forum narratives going round and round the same circles. The FastAussie always spins the same BS around unverified anecdotes from his 'expert mates who do all the reviews of this car that we the plebs get to read', and he continually likes to remind us of any reported negative slight, as though needing to confirm his personal bias and those of his 'expert mates'.... The worn grove gets a little tedious after awhile.

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FYI - If you add the old FA bloke and another individual to your "Ignore" list (in the Settings menu), this forum subsection isn't so depressing :smile:

I feel sorry for them that they feel the need to put so much time and effort into bashing something many others should be proud of.

Bottom line is that if corporate Honda is happy with the sales figures, then that's all that matters.

I for one appericate all comments Good and Bad on the Forum
Having said that, I do understand the complexity involved with developing this car, and can appericate the Engineering both with the Software/Hardware and intergration of all systems within the NSX 2.0 However, the cost of maintenance for this new NSX will be very high compared to our Gen 1.
I love the simplicity of our NSX

Bram

Bram said:

I for one appericate all comments Good and Bad on the Forum
Having said that, I do understand the complexity involved with developing this car, and can appericate the Engineering both with the Soatware/Hardware and intergration of all systems within the NSX 2.0 However, the cost of maintenance for this new NSX will be very high compared to our Gen 1.
I love the simplicity of our NSX

Bram

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Operating and maintenance costs should be right in line with any other $175k vehicle. Tires, brakes, and dry sump oil changes aren't cheap.

If the juiced-up hybrid system is as reliable as Toyota's, then I'm not concerned. Time will tell....

To the Luddites (even those with engineering degrees working in Tech): Get used to increased complexity in cars, the trend won't reverse. I will concede that the pioneers will take the arrows, and I expect unexpected problems with the NSX. But, as with most complex systems, the kinks and bugs get worked out over time and what at first seems like a Rube Goldberg set-up quickly becomes the reliable baseline norm. How many lines of code and discrete MCU/SoC/CPUs in even the most basic 2017 Model Year car?

^respectfully disagree.....just the addition of all the hybrid technology leads me to believe in 20 years down the road this car versus a good old fashioned 911 Turbo which was the same money Will not be the same in maintenance cost.....i'm looking at this from the perspective of buying the car and keeping it a quarter century, I would agree with you in the short run probably the first 5 to 10 years

lol Chrisn keeps calling you guys luddites.......destroy the cotton gins.....:tongue:

osus2k said:

.....i'm looking at this from the perspective of buying the car and keeping it a quarter century, I would agree with you in the short run probably the first 5 to 10 years

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I consume cars; I don't invest in them. In the long run, we're all dead. In general, cars like this will depreciate about 70% in first 7 years and then go to zero in another 7. Frankly, I ascribe approximate zero NPV to the value or utility of a new high-end (non limited edition) car bought today in years 15-25. That would be irrational. Plus, I already have a 911 Turbo.

osus2k said:

^respectfully disagree.....just the addition of all the hybrid technology leads me to believe in 20 years down the road this car versus a good old fashioned 911 Turbo which was the same money Will not be the same in maintenance cost.....i'm looking at this from the perspective of buying the car and keeping it a quarter century, I would agree with you in the short run probably the first 5 to 10 years

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LOL. No modern car will even last anywhere new a quarter century.

nsx#fan said:

LOL. No modern car will even last anywhere new a quarter century.

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Define modern car for this thought, I have multiple cars at or older than 25 years and all are still going strong...(none are over 70K miles)

I am not disagreeing with you, I just don't know what you are thinking when you write that thought...what is going to stop them from lasting? (if you are thinking of mileage, for instance 12K miles a year then I see your point, but is there something else...after all you write modern car)

thanks

Isn't the whole point of all this technology in gen 2 meant to aid in faster corners, faster acceleration times, faster laps, faster braking, etc? If it does all of this somewhat ok but not to the tune of other so called engineered machines, why bother? What is the point? If the argument is that it allows an idiot why cannot drive go faster, than this car will be boring as hell in a year. I still learn tricks from my lil NA 1 and it rewards you when you push it.
I am sure if I drove one I might get it. But the cars are still hermetically sealed off for test drives.

JT1991 said:

Define modern car for this thought, I have multiple cars at or older than 25 years and all are still going strong...(none are over 70K miles)

I am not disagreeing with you, I just don't know what you are thinking when you write that thought...what is going to stop them from lasting? (if you are thinking of mileage, for instance 12K miles a year then I see your point, but is there something else...after all you write modern car)

thanks

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Anything built in the past 10 years i'd say. Multitude of reasons: 1.Parts only available for 7 years after production. 2.That battery tech won't even exist. 2.Vehicles build and materials are "disposable". I have a 10 year old Lexus (quality as good as any make out there), and as much as I baby it and maintain it (runs flawlessly, and body is perfect), shit just wears out. Just keeping it until I can get an new LC500 in the spring.

But I guess you can keep ANYTHING on life support if you really want to.

Dunno if anyone has seen this video. All are pretty darn close. Of course the big NA motor wins.
Like the old saying goes, there's no replacement for displacement. Take it or leave it, the nsx is cool. Just not my top choice in the almost 1/4 million game. Just thought I'd share if no one has seen it.
https://youtu.be/lHIzYp2s8Uo

Bram said:

I for one appericate all comments Good and Bad on the Forum
Having said that, I do understand the complexity involved with developing this car, and can appericate the Engineering both with the Soatware/Hardware and intergration of all systems within the NSX 2.0 However, the cost of maintenance for this new NSX will be very high compared to our Gen 1.
I love the simplicity of our NSX

Bram

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I agree Bram.