I had not seen that the LC 500 is so close to being "real." It looks great. I hope a souped-up version follows soon!
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
Acura needs to wake up
- Thread starter liftcontrol
- Start date
True
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
everyone. especially all the keyboard jockeys at home who are not in the market for this car. #savethemanuals
People are all too willing to scream bloody murder when there's no manual option. But when it's time to actually pony up any buy a car in this price range, those people are nowhere to be found. Ferrari years ago saw the take rate for manuals shrink to the point it wasn't worth it anymore. All the actual buyers wanted the paddle shift just like Schumacher has.
fastaussie
Suspended
less than 2% of new Ferrari's were ordered with a manual transmission (previous to the option being deleted with the 458)...
In 15 years, no competitive sportscar / supercar will be offered without some sort of "KERS" system and those pining for the good old days of simple drivetrains will be called luddites and told to find a vintage stick-shift Miata that still runs (of which there will be many to choose from)...
...which means that the "all new" platforms that are being green-lighted right now for development might be the last of their linage without KERS (or the first-of-breed to include it)....
...which means that the "all new" platforms that are being green-lighted right now for development might be the last of their linage without KERS (or the first-of-breed to include it)....
Last edited:
fastaussie
Suspended
15 years, yep.
but word today is the new Lamborghini Huracan Performante just eclipsed the Porsche 918's Nurburgring lap time...
but word today is the new Lamborghini Huracan Performante just eclipsed the Porsche 918's Nurburgring lap time...
FWIW A look into Porsche's future:
" The 911 Hybrid will come in the end of 2018. The 911 Electric might follow in 2020. All the 4-door Porsches will become electric and hybrid, versions with just an internal combustion engine (ICE) will disappear for them. A few 2-door ICE Porsches will remain. The 4-cylinder 911, the 912, might make its comeback after more than 40 years (might also become hybrid). "
Stuttcars speculation on Porsche 911 line-up in 2020
912 - 2-litre 4-cylinder turbo -Engine from 718
911 Carrera (e-hybrid) - electric + 6-cylinder turbo
911 Carrera E electric - 3 second acceleration
911 Turbo 3-litre 6-cylinder turbo 600 hp
911 GT 3-litre 6-cylinder turbo -Lightweight RWD track day car
The challenge i have is with Honda too little too late, trying to make more from less and not coming clean with the cars performance. For the record i found Ted to be a total gentleman and a passionate motoring car nut chatted about how he loved spending time growing up with his dad and cars. The 25th anniversary in Japan started with a welcome function at Honda HQ great event with Gen 1 and Gen 2 NSX side by side. Then moved to Suzuka for NSXfiesta and the Gala dinner. Ted made a 10min presentation about the ethos and development of the new NSX and its design cues linked to Gen 1 unfortunately his presentation was in Japanese. To say i was impressed would be an understatement i had no idea what he was saying but his fluent Japanese sounded great.
At this event i spoke to Ted about the development of the NSX and its delay and bench marking against superseded competition this is where he toes the company line and puts a politician hat on. He would not answer any question with a direct answer i know it was prior to official release but unfortunately even after release no official 0-60 time or (cd) figures. Why hide the numbers just tell the world and get on with promoting the attributes of the NSX.
At Suzuka we were told that Ted wanted the visiting guests from Australia, Europe and USA to gather at a conference room for a chat to be confronted with the NSX form Honda HQ center stage. Ted had shipped the car from Tokyo to Suzuka overnight and re-presented the talk he did at the Gala function but this time in English. To have Ted ship the NSX 300km's and setup a presentation just for a small group was amazing. Ted conducted a Q&A but it was unfortunately just political spin. I was lucky enough to have one on one time (and two others) with Ted prior to the presentation he went through the NSX and explained everything that was evident no real surprises and again would not give anything away not even fuel tank capacity other than its comparable with the competition.
I dont really understand both why Honda chose to release the NSX below middle of the pack in relation to performance but priced higher up the field and most importantly do such poor release, promotion and customer relationship. If a car maker that was known to be ground breaking in terms of technology and innovation wants to make a statement in releasing a new Halo car then make a statement not be behind the eight ball and chasing the competition upon release.
fastaussie
Suspended
i completely agree. i have never understood why Honda won't make more with as much...
The silver lining of delivering *less* performance with *more* technology and potential is that there is room for improvement....
fastaussie
Suspended
everything has room for improvement, witness the 720S and Performante. the 488 will soon have a higher performing model also...
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
I think some of you guys are missing the point of the NSX. Yes it's our halo car. Yes it's a supercar. And yes, it came out of the gate as just a middle of the pack performer.
While it would be fantastic (mostly for dealers) if the car lived up to all the years of hype, was the fastest thing ever, and had people outbidding each other for just spots in line to buy the car. That obviously didn't happen. What did happen, is that we came out with a car that's fun and easy to drive fast on...and off a track. More importantly, it works well and reliable enough that you wouldn't give it even a second thought whether maybe you shouldn't take it on a long trip as a GT car or use it as a daily driver.
Honda is a practical company. It's not all about winning races. They didn't put all the time and effort into the NSX (either generation) just to come out with a middle of the pack performer (still talking about both gens) and hope it still sells to fanboys who only want a Japanese supercar. Just like what happened with the first gen, many of the things that were developed for the NSX will find their way into other Honda carlines. And they already have. Because the NSX's release got delayed by almost three years due to the powertrain redo, the Acura RLX/Honda Legend Sport Hybrid went ahead and got the NSX's Twin Motor Unit. And soon Acura's bread and butter model, the MDX will also get electrified and get the TMU setup. The MDX Sport Hybrid should get the absolute best mileage in its class and still be able to hustle a bit. Some of the NSX's aerodynamic aspects will and have already wound up in other carlines.
Yes Lamborghini, Ferrari, and McLaren make some awesome performing cars. But they're all happy being niche manufacturers. Honda is more focused on making cars that aren't just playthings for one percenters. And because of that, they are big enough that they could (if they were for sale) buy all three of those other companies combined and still have enough money left over to buy Aston-Martin for good measure.
While it would be fantastic (mostly for dealers) if the car lived up to all the years of hype, was the fastest thing ever, and had people outbidding each other for just spots in line to buy the car. That obviously didn't happen. What did happen, is that we came out with a car that's fun and easy to drive fast on...and off a track. More importantly, it works well and reliable enough that you wouldn't give it even a second thought whether maybe you shouldn't take it on a long trip as a GT car or use it as a daily driver.
Honda is a practical company. It's not all about winning races. They didn't put all the time and effort into the NSX (either generation) just to come out with a middle of the pack performer (still talking about both gens) and hope it still sells to fanboys who only want a Japanese supercar. Just like what happened with the first gen, many of the things that were developed for the NSX will find their way into other Honda carlines. And they already have. Because the NSX's release got delayed by almost three years due to the powertrain redo, the Acura RLX/Honda Legend Sport Hybrid went ahead and got the NSX's Twin Motor Unit. And soon Acura's bread and butter model, the MDX will also get electrified and get the TMU setup. The MDX Sport Hybrid should get the absolute best mileage in its class and still be able to hustle a bit. Some of the NSX's aerodynamic aspects will and have already wound up in other carlines.
Yes Lamborghini, Ferrari, and McLaren make some awesome performing cars. But they're all happy being niche manufacturers. Honda is more focused on making cars that aren't just playthings for one percenters. And because of that, they are big enough that they could (if they were for sale) buy all three of those other companies combined and still have enough money left over to buy Aston-Martin for good measure.
Les, in my discussions with Ted he was always clear about Honda's confidentiality policies and wouldn't be able to answer all questions.
Frustrating for him I'm sure but he has high personal standards and so I respected that.
I see the NSX priced more near the bottom of the list (excluding the Corvette) with lower to mid-pack performance.
I think we've got pretty much the same positioning as the original NSX
Competitive at a reasonable price.
Certainly everyone wanted to see it blow the doors off everything and sell for $100K.
But at $158K I think it is competitive with the regular R8 V10 and close to a 911 Turbo.
It's not in the league of an R8 V10 Plus nor 911 Turbo S nor is it priced at their level.
If it had say 650 hp it would be more competitive with these two and could justify being $30K more expensive.
Perhaps that's what's coming in a further evolution.
I believe Honda knew it would be a big reach for them to sell cars in the $160K + range.
It appears they put a lot of value into the NSX that doesn't manifest itself in 0-60 numbers but the new V6 with Cosworth block and heads is one strong engine.
And chugging along at 50 mph in 9th gear at 16-1700 rpm is quite a different experience from our original NSX's.
Like all Honda's I expect it will run forever and a big part of ownership for me is not the 0-60 times but the 95 % of the time driving nowhere near the limit but with reliability and reasonable cost.
fastaussie
Suspended
i have no issues with the price tag. maybe a lot of people wanted the NSX to be $100,000? but that's incredibly unrealistic. given both the tech in the car, and the relative price of the competition.
me, i'd have no qualms paying $200,000 or $250,000 for the NSX if it had the performance (value?) of the other cars. none whatsoever...
just like a lot of the competition...
it's funny to listen to you guys still asserting that the NSX is the only car in its class that won't constantly leave its owner stranded every time it gets taken out of the garage.
once again, an R8, Huracan, 911 Turbo, AMG GTS, 488, etc. are all fun and easy to drive, on or off track. and any of them will reliably go any where, any time, and i personally wouldn't give it a second thought...
p.s. viewpoints like these are what would lead me to believe you guys haven't driven any of the other cars.
I understand all you have said so why aren't they selling I'll tell you exactly why....the new NSX didn't live up to the hype not the hype from Honda but from the fans and rest of the competition that have been waiting for a decade or more that was going to blow us away.
The NSX is Honda's only car in this segment whereas the competition has a full compliment of cars to satisfy just about everyone's budget and performance requirement. Really who wants a supercar that's almost there Honda will have to bring something big soon or the NSX will die on the vine like Gen1. No-one can predict the future with certainty all we can do is look at the past and unless we do something different we will end up with the same.
Would this be worlds most expensive NSX deliveries into Australia by end of 2017. Hopefully by then there will be some upgrades to justify the price-tag of $460K.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 23 August 2016
- Messages
- 362
So you have a Viper ACR or Corvette Z06 in your garage then right? If it's all about max performance for value, then you need not consider anything else.
If you're seriously going to have anyone believe that any of those German/Italian rigs are even half as reliable as a Honda, then that leads me to believe you don't know much about the car business.
Les, have you done a price comparo with the R8V10 and V10 Plus and Porsche Turbo and Turbo S.
How does the NSX stack up with them?
NSX $460
R8V10 $387
R8V10 Plus $412
911 Turbo $418
911 Turbo S $494
The Australian NSX will be delivered almost fully optioned estimates of $60-70K so base price as a comparison $400k. All comparison vehicles are without options.
Here is a breakdown of costs in Australia:
Audi R8V10 Plus
$314,504.00 Manufacturer's List Price (Inc. GST)*
$4,545.00 Dealer Delivery Charge (Inc.GST)#
$76,475.10 Federal Govt Luxury Car Tax (LCT)
$993.00 SA State Govt Total Registration~
$15,580.00 SA State Govt Stamp Duty
$412,097.10 Vehicle Drive Away Price^
R8V10 $387
R8V10 Plus $412
911 Turbo $418
911 Turbo S $494
The Australian NSX will be delivered almost fully optioned estimates of $60-70K so base price as a comparison $400k. All comparison vehicles are without options.
Here is a breakdown of costs in Australia:
Audi R8V10 Plus
$314,504.00 Manufacturer's List Price (Inc. GST)*
$4,545.00 Dealer Delivery Charge (Inc.GST)#
$76,475.10 Federal Govt Luxury Car Tax (LCT)
$993.00 SA State Govt Total Registration~
$15,580.00 SA State Govt Stamp Duty
$412,097.10 Vehicle Drive Away Price^
What about this article with the NSX at $420?
http://www.caradvice.com.au/467062/2017-honda-nsx-price-confirmed-at-420000/
Based on your above post NSX will be very difficult to sell.
Honda would be much better off to bring in the base steel brake model at $360-390.
http://www.caradvice.com.au/467062/2017-honda-nsx-price-confirmed-at-420000/
Based on your above post NSX will be very difficult to sell.
Honda would be much better off to bring in the base steel brake model at $360-390.
Last edited:
That was August last yr and is + on road costs which will add $20k+ to the base price depending on which state you live in.
To all those still extolling the virtues of the NSX replacement against all objective evidence to the contrary, the proof is in the pudding. The intended target audience is not buying the car!! In its very first year of production it is either selling as few or less units than the competitors who have been selling for years and are therefore "stale" and without the wow factor of a new car.
If Honda is as blind to their defective child as some of its die hard fans then there is little hope of it changing for the better and every likelihood of it dying the same slow and painful death of its predecessor...death by irrelevance.
The worse possible death for a car with such high expectations.
If Honda is as blind to their defective child as some of its die hard fans then there is little hope of it changing for the better and every likelihood of it dying the same slow and painful death of its predecessor...death by irrelevance.
The worse possible death for a car with such high expectations.
fastaussie
Suspended
i'm not trying to convince you of anything. just pointing out (in vain) that the NSX is not the only reliable or comfortable Supercar. this is no longer the 1990s.
have you driven any of the other cars?
mate, these guys don't like pudding...
I always wonder why so many people whine about not enough hp, too "slow" a 0-60, slower on the Ring than "x", etc.
Virtually no owners drive the car to its potential and seem more intent on having the hypothetical ability to be the first car to the next red light. I see the same thing with Gen 1 owners looking to boost theirs only to have it look fast sitting at a cars and coffee. I have been tracking my '96 for 16 years and am quite happy driving it on the track with instructors and pros in their full race prepped rides while mine is still all original motor/tranny with 160k miles and 111 track days - plus daily driving to work in season.
Is it the fastest? Of course not. But I do drive it to its limits on a regular basis and it's still an amazing experience every time. I see very few owners on the track and don't really understand the need for raw "numbers" if you aren't going to actually use the car to its potential.
A Huracan could never hold up to my driving all these years. Would it be fun for 2000 miles a year? Of course. Could it handle actually being driven to its potential year in and year out and still be as reliable 20 years later? I sincerely doubt it.
Virtually no owners drive the car to its potential and seem more intent on having the hypothetical ability to be the first car to the next red light. I see the same thing with Gen 1 owners looking to boost theirs only to have it look fast sitting at a cars and coffee. I have been tracking my '96 for 16 years and am quite happy driving it on the track with instructors and pros in their full race prepped rides while mine is still all original motor/tranny with 160k miles and 111 track days - plus daily driving to work in season.
Is it the fastest? Of course not. But I do drive it to its limits on a regular basis and it's still an amazing experience every time. I see very few owners on the track and don't really understand the need for raw "numbers" if you aren't going to actually use the car to its potential.
A Huracan could never hold up to my driving all these years. Would it be fun for 2000 miles a year? Of course. Could it handle actually being driven to its potential year in and year out and still be as reliable 20 years later? I sincerely doubt it.
Last edited:
Similar threads
