I'd like to run the CTSC with the larger displacement blower and smaller pulley, DA after cooler, and possibly meth as well. It looks like that would be a solid 400ish whp setup. I've been looking into an engine build for awhile, biggest problem being there isn't anyplace local to me really willing to work on the factory titanium rods. I'm not really sure I'd need more than replacement of the factory pistons for these kind of power goals, as most seem to blow the ringlands out... though I haven't really figured out if that's a piston weakness, or sub par tunes since most don't seem to upgrade to a good engine management? Who have you used for machine work, or do most send their cars out to be handled by someone? How many of you really experience any issues? I hate to go too far with the car and it not be a turn key no issues type ride anymore. I don't really want to buy rods, or even a full rotating assembly, just because I can't find anyone trustworthy locally to handle the machine work. So far, I've found one place I like in LA that I could ship my parts to for the work that actually sounds like they know what they're talking about, so that's the best plan I've found so far. Any thoughts, questions, things you've ran into, what you'd do different, what you'd not do next time, etc is welcomed.
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
Anyone with engine builds? Random questions, who you've used for machine work, etc.
- Thread starter davidsk
- Start date
You don't need to do anything internally for that kind of power......piston swap if you wanted to be extra safe. Stock rods are fine.
what year motor?
1992 at 15x,xxx miles. Just kind of figuring out how far and in depth I want to go with this. I'm kind of torn on a rebuild with upgraded pistons, a larger displacement blower like the 2.1, and high boost, or just the basic CTSC on a stock refreshed motor and trying to keep it turn key and reliable. I already have a haltech laying around that would go into the build.
Last edited:
I'm with NA1MT. Keep it stock for that. The methanol injection will help keep cylinder temps down and protect the piston ringlands. Get a good tuner.
Look at the threads posted by user ccathey... He ran at 600+ RWHP for years on a stock short block:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/94824-605-rwhp-on-Stock-Motor
Look at the threads posted by user ccathey... He ran at 600+ RWHP for years on a stock short block:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/94824-605-rwhp-on-Stock-Motor
Speaking strictly from experience being around these parts for a while. Reliability on built motors aren't all as bulletproof as what you read here. You only hear of the successful ones that hold together. Most failures aren't posted. So statistically failures on built motors are more common, especially on the C series. Therefore, i'm of the opinion... avoid significant engine builds unless you really have to. Unfortunately I don't have actual numbers and counts of these blown motors so you'll either take my word for it or you don't FWIW.
+1 on the Good Tuner comment. Key point there.
I'd say with the proper tuning, temperature control, and some basic bulletproofing precautions a stock 3.0L can hold 350-400wHP reliably. Though a failure point on the 91-94 engines is the OEM paper head gasket. It doesn't like boost.
+1 on the Good Tuner comment. Key point there.
I'd say with the proper tuning, temperature control, and some basic bulletproofing precautions a stock 3.0L can hold 350-400wHP reliably. Though a failure point on the 91-94 engines is the OEM paper head gasket. It doesn't like boost.
It certainty would be a good idea if your on a 3L motor. My head gasket failed and destoyed the rings.
This all I have done. Car now has just under 150.000 miles and still running strong. Although I went turbo.
I have a built 3.0 (now slightly larger) that was originally leaking at one of the cylinders. It was supercharged previously with a Vortech blower. I assume that the forced induction caused this. It was my late father's car, and he did the rebuild through Shad at Driving Ambitions. Shad sends the motor out for the engine work to another guy in Sacramento (I don't recall his name, but I believe that they worked together at Comptech). As to what was done to my engine, I believe that it was cylinder sleeves and low compression pistons. I'll apologize in advance for my lack of knowledge in this area. Shad just recently installed the larger CTSC and dynoed the car at 393 hp. I've only driven the car once (it's still getting worked on) but it sure felt strong. I could get the gentleman's name who did my engine build for Shad (I should know this anyway), but that would require the engine/car to be sent to Sacramento obviously.
Thanks guys. Seems hard to tell at this point what are problems with not being factory, and what are problems with poor build qualities. Still in the air as to aftermarket pistons and large displacement SC or factory with out of the box CTSC. So far, the only machine shop I've talked to that sounds competent is QMP in California. I'd have to ship everything out to them for the work, but would be worth it since nobody in this one horse town sounds willing or competent to complete said work.
Funny because I think your car has been holding up Shad from starting my engine build. Lol. FYI, your front wheel offsets look crazy. I see downforce fenders in your future. ;-)
Yours is the black car that just got a 02 conversion and six speed right?
Yep that's my car. I'm sorry for the hold up. He has really done a lot of work on it. I'm trying not to add up my bills, but it's sure been fun. As for the wheels I was given that offset by Shad, but the big problem was the tire width. Those were 235/40/17s. I have since gone with 215/40/17s and the problem has been solved. They are inside the fenders now with no rub. My apologies for tying Shad up for so long. The good news is that the car is out now so it's open for you.
No worries or apologies needed. It takes time for car builds.
Maybe I'll have to give DA a call, if I can catch him from the sounds of it... he's a busy guy. I saw one of his last posts on FB had no shortage of work. Would be great to find out who he trusts as far as machine work. I'm pretty limited in my area, and I've been wrenching on cars professionally for 10 years or so now so I can do that work myself.
Can't say enough good things about Science of Speed. Just recently had them build a sleeved 3.5 stroker w/ twin GTX2863's. Made over 600 whp on E85 and 550whp on pump gas. The car is as smooth, if not smoother, than when it was a stock 3.2. Not sure who they use for machining, but there are multiple SoS builds with LOTS of miles on them. SoS also uses a local tuner who tunes all of the SoS cars. He knows his way around the NSX. SoS customer service is top notch and, although they aren't cheap, they stand behind their work.
IMO, if you stay with a "stock" CT or SoS blower, you don't need an engine build. I would highly recommend you use a stand alone ECU and bigger injectors though. The CT fueling strategy, although functional, is archaic and running the ragged edge of safety. At least the SoS supercharger, although more expensive than the CT, uses proper tuning/fueling. If you're looking to move up to a 2.3 blower, to make the most of it, you should consider at least pistons, ARP studs, and MLS head gasket.
My $0.02? Go turbo. Seriously. I had a stock CT, CT with stand alone and injectors, then added an aftercooler. On E85, I still didn't crest 400whp. After switching to the "base" SoS twin turbo kit, I made 430whp with much lower AIT and better driveability.
If you have specific questions, PM me.
IMO, if you stay with a "stock" CT or SoS blower, you don't need an engine build. I would highly recommend you use a stand alone ECU and bigger injectors though. The CT fueling strategy, although functional, is archaic and running the ragged edge of safety. At least the SoS supercharger, although more expensive than the CT, uses proper tuning/fueling. If you're looking to move up to a 2.3 blower, to make the most of it, you should consider at least pistons, ARP studs, and MLS head gasket.
My $0.02? Go turbo. Seriously. I had a stock CT, CT with stand alone and injectors, then added an aftercooler. On E85, I still didn't crest 400whp. After switching to the "base" SoS twin turbo kit, I made 430whp with much lower AIT and better driveability.
If you have specific questions, PM me.
I have a haltech platinum 2000 already, and would plan on deatschwerks fuel system even with the out of the box CTSC, as it's asinine to run your car on that kind of "management" and "fuel system"... I've honestly wondered how many engine problems people have had are directly related to that. SOS isn't really any help for a DIY person at all. They want all of the work or none of it at all. I'm not after obscene amounts of power, just bringing the car in line with the power level it deserves.
That hasn't been my experience at all. They have been very helpful in supporting all the items that I bought from them: CCU, ECU, carbon/carbon clutch, stereo harness, door pulls, etc; even before I had them do a full build.
Are they a free data resource? Well of course not but within reason- remember that they are a business not a hobby.
Think Dali only with inventory and without attitude.
They wouldn't say who they used for machining, or offer any help to anyone not having them do the full engine build. I would be all for paying them money for the wrist pin conversion, balancing, etc, but they won't have any part of it. I'm not the only person that's had this experience. Nothing against them, but they aren't willing to help a person in my situation. Which is why I've started to look elsewhere. I understand not wanting to be held liable for anything.
Maybe I should elaborate, don't seem to be help for a DIY engine build as too much money and liability/reputation is possibly at stake.
Last edited:
- Joined
- 10 August 2010
- Messages
- 633
I've had similar experience. I had a very specific engine build in mind, nothing crazy just parts that I have used successfully in many motor bulids, IE Pauter Rods, CP Pistons, Benson sleeves, etc. I went to them first and they said they would not be able to build the motor to my specifications. I regularly buy from them and did, in fact, purchase many of my engine parts from them for the build. Some of those parts required machining, and when asked who would be a good place to have the machine work done they could not help. I can understand keeping business in house, but was a bit disappointed. With that said, they are a stand up company which I will continue to purchase from, but to David's point, perhaps not the greatest resource for DIY people who don't choose to take advantage of SOS's complete line of engine services. I particularly like the installation documentation they include in many of their other products, I know my Air 2 Water intercooler kit, AEM infinity/Harness and Carbon clutch were all well thought out and documented making installation a breeze.
I agree with your assessment- doing smaller items for a build they have little control of leaves them exposed reputation-wise. I don't think I would either and it appears that you too are a reasonable guy who gets it.
Good luck with your build!
I'm not going over 400whp either, but I wanted to refresh my motor since I clipped 90k so the block is at H-Squared Racing Engines(out of Houston) getting hot tanked and cleaned along with a ball hone. OEM pistons and rods looked really good so instead of spending thousands I decided to send the pistons and bearings off to Polydyn(again out of Houston) to have them cleaned and coated for protection. The pistons are getting two different coating jobs. A ceramic coat for the top and a 'dry film' ceramic coat for the skirts. I'm also replacing the OEM rod bolts with ARP bolts, mls gaskets, and adding new piston rings since they are known for failing after a while for different reasons. It is different from the normal refresh, but my shop does plenty of builds like this on high whp builds with a lot of success.
Here is a sample picture of the coatings after they are finished.
Here is a sample picture of the coatings after they are finished.
Even at 400whp, stock pistons are marginal due to their thin and weak ringlands. It would have been much wiser to put a stronger forged piston in there while you have everything apart.I'm not going over 400whp either, but I wanted to refresh my motor since I clipped 90k so the block is at H-Squared Racing Engines(out of Houston) getting hot tanked and cleaned along with a ball hone. OEM pistons and rods looked really good so instead of spending thousands I decided to send the pistons and bearings off to Polydyn(again out of Houston) to have them cleaned and coated for protection. The pistons are getting two different coating jobs. A ceramic coat for the top and a 'dry film' ceramic coat for the skirts. I'm also replacing the OEM rod bolts with ARP bolts, mls gaskets, and adding new piston rings since they are known for failing after a while for different reasons. It is different from the normal refresh, but my shop does plenty of builds like this on high whp builds with a lot of success.
Here is a sample picture of the coatings after they are finished.
- Joined
- 10 August 2010
- Messages
- 633
I second that. It's not the rings themselves, but the ringlands on the pistons that typically fail.
Similar threads
