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Instructions for Hugo's Window Fix

Joined
3 November 2011
Messages
3,364
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
The car is out of winter storage. I decided that now that it is back in my garage, I should probably get around to installing Hugo's kit which has been knocking around in my trunk for at least 2 -3 years (before I lose it). I found the thread with the link to the .pdf for the pulley install. My kit came with the additional replacement glides and the thread makes reference to the glides (which were a later addition) and instructions for glide replacement which were to follow. However, I have not been able to locate the instructions for the glide replacement. Does anybody know if instructions for the glide replacement were prepared and if they were, where they are posted.

Glide replacement may or may not be obvious; but, if its not obvious I would just hate to get the door and regulator apart and then be left looking at the glides wondering - what now!
 
Pictures showing the guides installed are here:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/148138-NSX-Window-KITS?p=1424244#post1424244

If you click on the second link in the footer in Hugo's post it will take you to the .pdf for the install of the pulley.

Now, does anybody know where the various recommendations to use Honda Urea grease for lubricating the slides came from and what the part # is? The factory service manual just specifies 'grease' for the window regulator which I take to be garden variety MP grease.
 
Urea Grease 08798-9002 is the P/N. I have had very good experiences with this on the window slides. I have not had anyone come back after even ten years. Windows move fast and smooth after using this grease. The original grease seems to get "cakey" after years and that is the main reason for the slow windows. When that happens it also taxes the regulator, since the grease gets thick and fights the regulator motor.

JMO:)

Regards,
LarryB
 
Thanks Larry.

Pricey stuff! I checked the on-line discounters and with the US-Cdn exchange rate and the shipping costs (more than the cost of the grease) it was cheaper to buy it at my local dealer. Pricey enough that they didn't have any unopened jars in inventory. On a per ml basis, I figure this stuff is about the same cost as Johnny Walker Blue Label, or maybe slightly more.
 
It smells like crap and be careful not to get any on the glass. It doesn't remove easily.
 
It smells like crap and be careful not to get any on the glass. It doesn't remove easily.

Thanks. Forewarned is forearmed; however, given the price of this miracle elixir I will likely be dabbing it on rather than using my typical more must be better approach.
 
Interesting, I just got a few jars from my dealer about $12 list price here in the US. I am sure Tim Poliniak has it for about $10 or less;).
 
The cheapest on-line source I found was $9.95; but, then there was the >$20 courier charge. Others had it for around $14 and used USPS for around $15 or so. Same difference. Add in a Cdn $ trading at $0.73 to the US $ and you are at $41 Cdn per jar! Like I said, Jonny Walker Blue Label territory or more.

In this case buying local was the lower cost solution. However, even without the discount that a lot (all?) of the on-line vendors provide, US Honda's list prices seem to be lower than the prices that Honda Canada charges for the same part even after currency conversion. Adding in the discount makes shopping for the part in the US a bit of a no-brainer as long the item price differential is high enough to warrant the shipping cost. I have never ordered from Tim; but, have ordered from Delray because in the past they would sell to Canadian customers. I don't know whether Tim will sell to international customers. Some of the discounters definitely state that they will not sell to international customers when you try to enter in a non US address.
 
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urea=peepee............eeeewuuuuuuu:tongue:
 
Picked up the miracle grease from the dealer today. Paid about the equivalent of $22 US$ for 50 gm. Assuming a specific gravity around 0.75, that would be 67 ml volume wise so the price would be $.33 per ml. That would make a 750 ml container of the grease $247 which I am thinking is about 10% higher than the Johnny Walker Blue Label. It better be good!

Did the sniff test. Unpleasant; but, perhaps the high temperature rating of the grease makes it less volatile as I had to get my nose close to the jar to get a good whiff. I don't plan to do that again.

I hate to disappoint docjohn; but, based upon my doing diaper days the sniff test says nothing like 'peepee'. Not better, just different.
 
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haha lol......................made you sniff...............:biggrin:
 
So, in the world of window regulator fixing, the fragrance or urea grease is a triviality. I reserve a special place in my heart for that rope caulk / goo that Honda used to seal the plastic membrane on the door panel. After 17 years I swear that it was as fresh, stringy and gooey as the day it went on. Pulling the membrane off resulted in strings like hot mozzarella cheese on a pizza which ultimately ended up on every surface in sight.

The Hugo kit install went pretty well, other than a little fuss initially with trying to rewind the spring in the regulator. Operation of the windows is not fast; but, definitely faster and smoother than before. Initially I had some popping sounds when the window was approaching full open. A little exploration revealed that this is caused by the white plastic pivot that rides on the slide on the regulator track and is part of the bracket that is bolted to the bottom of the glass. I discovered that you are supposed to lubricate this pivot with the all important urea grease to prevent this popping noise. You are also supposed to lubricate the white plastic bits where this bracket bolts to the bottom of the glass with the same urea grease. This last bit mystifies me since there is no apparent movement at this point; but, the lubrication of the pivot and the bracket mounting points are covered by a TSB (93-004 I think) which is in the Prime Wiki. This info on lubricating the bracket and the pivot was not included in Hugo's installation instructions, so for those of you who have yet to install the Hugo kit, get the grease and check out the TSB. As it turns out, after operating the windows a few times, the popping has ceased; however, I will have the door panels off in the future because of other reasons so I will do the lubrication of the pivot then.

This isn't related to Hugo's kit; but, the journey into the doors revealed that someone had been in there before, at least on two occasions. The first tell tale was the fact that the plastic mounting tabs along the back of the door and along the bottom were either split or completely missing and the portion of the door panel bolster above the top mounting tab on the back side had completely split apart on the passengers side - which explained a mystery rattle that I was never able to trace down. The second clue was big chunks ripped out of the door membrane which were subsequently taped over with lots of large pieces of duct tape. I guess whoever went into the door didn't want to deal with the gooey stuff being exposed by pealing back the membrane so they just ripped holes in the membrane. Pealing off the duct tape and pulling the membrane back revealed the following interesting stuff:

On the passenger side wires that look like home stereo speaker cord which appear to have at one time been attached to the window regulator motor

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What looks like a 0.47 UF capacitor soldered across the power supply to the window regulator motor on the passenger side

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On the driver's side, evidence of fiddling on the connector plugs. Not sure why they would have to have three butt splices in a row.


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The drivers door also had loose wires T tapped to wires on the connector plug to the drivers side window switch, the door latch connector plug and the door courtesy light. I could see that the door latch and courtesy light connection might be part of a security system; but, the connections to the window switch and regulator motors and the capacitor across the passenger regulator motor are complete mysteries to me, plus it looked like a real hack job install. Has anybody seen anything like this?

As noted, I will be pulling the door liner off to deal with the broken / missing mounting tabs. Fortunately, the tabs are on separate bolsters along the bottom and back of the door panel which are screwed to the door panel, so you can deal with broken tabs by replacing the bolsters as opposed to replacing the complete door panel which would be $$$$.
 
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I can say that about 90% of the doors/windows I work on that plastic liner is destroyed. And it is amazing how techs do not really look at the hardware, since it is always completely mixed up:)....

BTW, did you replace the regulator sliders with the SOS kit? It works very well...
 
I would have had less of an issue with the damage to the liner if whoever did this had used a razor knife to cut an X slit to get access to the connectors and regulator motor wiring. That would have been easy to fix with a little sheathing tape. It literally looks like they tried to tear a hole with their hands because the plastic had large stretch marks and chunks missing. I ended up patching it with vapour barrier left over from some house renovation work.

Hugo's kit included some replacement sliders which were advertised as being teflon.

On the slider there is a little rubber bumper that hits a stop at the bottom of the window travel. Both of mine were pretty mashed up where they contact the stop so I flipped them so the unmashed side would contact the stop and glued them in place so they would not drop off. Honda does not list individual parts for the regulator. Do you know if that rubber bumper is available from any other sources?
 
Do you know if that rubber bumper is available from any other sources?

I do not think so. I noticed doing this yesterday I had the SOS kit which contained 4 new sliders, they work great, but it actually appears there are 6 pieces per regulator. I took a pic yesterday and send it to Chirs at SOS, he is looking at it.
 
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On a related matter.

Since the door panels were off and you need to remove the speaker enclosures to access the bottom mounting bolts on the regulator track, I decided to have a look at the door speaker amps. My door speakers are not demonstrating any of the failure modes; but, they are 17 years old and I thought if any of the electrolytic capacitors were showing signs of leakage, it would be much easier to replace them now while everything was apart. It was early enough in the day that replacement parts could be ordered and would be on my doorstep the next day.

The inspection of the capacitors was not definitive. There are a couple of small electrolytics that showed no sign of leakage. The large electrolytics in the center of the circuit board showed no signs of leakage from the tops of the cans. However, the base of the capacitors is potted to the board in a transparent compound to prevent vibration failure of the components. The potting compound makes visual inspection of the base of the capacitor very difficult and probably provides an external barrier around the leads and bottom can seal making detection of electrolyte leakage, which is a sign of aging failure, difficult. Anyway, no obvious signs of leakage so the amps went back into the doors untouched.
 
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Do you still smell the sweet aroma of urea grease in your dreams? :biggrin: After trying the window upgrade thing, I just caved and bought new oem replacements. I kept more hair on my head that way. Hahah. So the windows still do not roll up fast?
 
After your odour warnings, I was parsimonious in the application of the urea on the regulator track. As a result, with the door membrane in place (after my patch job) there is no noticeable gag me grease smell.

I noted that after the fix, the windows were faster and definitely smoother; but, not necessarily fast. After three days of use, I can now report that the window speed is much quicker. Certainly as fast as the windows on my Honda Pilot and my son's RSX, both of which have smaller pieces of glass to move. My only conclusion is that after some operation, perhaps the slider has done a better job of distributing the grease along the track resulting in less friction and faster operation. I can report that based upon a whole 4 days of operation, I am very happy with the results.

My car is a 2000. Yours is a 1991 and I know that there was a revision of some sort to the regulators at some time during the production run. Perhaps that upgrade reflects the fact that I am happy with the results on my later version regulator and you not so much with your early version regulators.
 
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