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Clutch pedal fell to floor, then fine?
- Thread starter tomc92bb000059
- Start date
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- 21 December 2005
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- 1,215
Yeah, its crazy that it went out again so soon. All parts OEM, except that I used a speed bleeder as someone recommended in this thread.
- Joined
- 21 December 2005
- Messages
- 1,215
[MENTION=3729]Larry Bastanza[/MENTION] or any other nsx expert, clutch fluid has been leaking for a couples months now. I finally have the time to fix it, I jacked up the car just enough to get under. The drips are coming from just outside the plastic cover, on the left. I THINK its coming from this hose in this picture(its the one that connects to the slave I believe. Tonight I'm going to jack the car up higher & do the soap and water test. If its that hose, how much of a mission is it to replace.
Since the M/S going bad does seem premature for the age, and the pic really does look like it is the hose, I would agree that is the issue. The challenge will be getting the hose loose at its top mount(short wrench will help, but USE A LINE WRENCH ONLY), probably best working from the top to loosen it, once loose pretty easy swap. Make sure you get the o-ring for the slave end. 46970-SL0-A02 HOSE, CLUTCH this P/N does include the o-ring.
HTH,
LarryB
HTH,
LarryB
- Joined
- 21 December 2005
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Thanks for the quick response & advice, I really appreciate it. I'll order said parts now.
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[MENTION=3729]Larry Bastanza[/MENTION] Any idea on what size Line Wrench I need? I think mine is buried in storage somewhere, so i'll just pick up a 3pc set from Amazon.
I recall it being a 10mm, exactly like the brake lines........
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- 21 December 2005
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Perfect. I ordered the part at my local Acura today, it'll be here tomorrow. They even price matched the cheaper online prices of another dealership :big grin:
Thanks again for your help.
I started this last Sunday. removing that hard line from the hose and removing the clip that attaches the hose to it's bracket were not easy. You only get about 1/3 turn at at time with a flare/line wrench. they make line wrenches with 12 points, i'm sure using one of those would help.
also - everyone saying that the slave is impossible to access from above on a 2000+ cars - not sure I agree with you. I was having a hell of a time lining the slave up with it's mounting holes from below. I tried from above after removing the airbox and had it lined up in 30 seconds. Being able to see the holes really helps.
Edit: Thought I'd finish this up monday night but I guess my new slave (oem) was defective. Just as the system started to get some pressure I heard a leak from the rear - fluid was leaking past the seal inside the slave and into the rubber boot around the piston. After I unbolted the slave to see what was going on, the inner cup pushed out past the slave cylinder body. Pretty sure it's not supposed to look like this! I don't want to wait a week to get another one at the dealer or at an online acura dealer (this one was ordered from delray acura), so I ordered the centric slave from rockauto with next day shipping. The centric master I ordered from them was 100% identical to the OEM one, we'll see if the slave is perhaps the same as well.
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Are you sure that you got the clutch actuator rod in the cup on the throw out bearing fork? The cup should not have come out. You can just reinstall the cup. Just don't cut the seal.
Brad
Brad
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The reason you are having this issue is because the piston was not set into the cup in the shift fork when installed. Again due to the tight space because of the air pump system, it is very hard to get the slave placed properly from above. I am not talking about the mounting bolts, but the piston/fork alignment(inside the boot). Frankly you got the bolts to align easily from the top because the piston was not aligned properly. When the piston is set into the fork correctly, you need to apply pressure to the slave to get it into the proper position, and at the same time put the bolts into place. I just did this last evening and I will stick to my comments, bottom is way easier! BTW, did you remove BOTH of the plastic lower covers(top and bottom) of the shift linkage, then remove the shift cable mount (3 -12mm bolts)?
LMK
Regards,
LarryB
Yep, I removed both lower and upper covers from the shift linkage & then unbolted the linkage and moved the shift cables out of the way. Most things were definitely easier from below (removing old slave, attaching the slave hose, attaching a bleed hose), just getting the bolts in was easier from up top. YMMV of course!
The piston was definitely placed in the shift fork cup. I actually pulled back the rubber boot covering the shift fork to confirm that it was placed properly since I was super paranoid about this bit, and it was easier to put/keep grease on the shift fork cup than on the slave piston which was moving around and bumping in to stuff. I had my laptop sitting on top of the engine, hooked up to a webcam that I stuck down below so I could watch the piston & make sure it was seated correctly in the fork. So even with the piston correctly placed in the fork, and the slave cylinder cup well inside the slave cylinder body, fluid was leaking from around the slave cylinder cup into the scrunchy slave piston boot. After I removed the slave to find the source of the leak, I pumped the clutch pedal a couple more times to verify where it was leaking from. That's when the cup exited the slave cylinder body. I suppose there is a chance that the piston somehow got unseated from the fork after I put the boot back on. I guess i'm just the 0.01% and not the good kind! Even if it's possible as OLDMNSX said to push it back inside, i'm not sure i'd be comfortable driving with this one. The replacement will be here thursday so I'll just have to do without for an extra day
Any tips on filling a clutch system that has pretty much no fluid in it? Thanks for your help, as always.
Btw D'Ecosse, your pictures of the shift linkage were invaluable, thanks!
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Fill and pump, checking the reservoir every 5 pumps. It will be fine
Regards,
LarryB
Fill and pump, checking the reservoir every 5 pumps. It will be fine
Regards,
LarryB
Thanks - one question that just came to mind: When pumping the clutch, should the reservoir cap be on or off?
off......
shawn110975
Suspended
I always replace both master and slave but some naaaa sayers on NSXPRIME yelled at me for it... replace both because like larry said it will be back in 3 months to get the other one done.
another tip I noticed - all the hard lines had a yellow mark on the bolt to indicate their initial position. make a note of it / try not to rub it all off while unbolting them and you can be sure that you've tightened them back up exactly as they were. Of course I'm more anal than that so I used flare nut crow foot adapters to get them torqued exactly. but it matched the yellow marks so I was happy
Is it possible that the throw out bearing fork got dis-lodged from its pivot point? Take a look at that.
Brad
Brad
Interesting to read different recommendation depending on one's background and country. I always recommend replacing the CL master/slave/hose as a set. While the hose tends to survive longer than the master/slave, it will start leaking from the edge of metal crimped fitting where the rubber hose starts.
It's probably too late for you but when installing the new slave cyl, remove the clear plastic dust seal cap that came with the cyl, push in the spigot as far as possible and then place back the clear cap in place.
It will hold the spigot in compressed position that you can install the slave cyl without fighting against the pressure from the release fork.
If you have spare cap, place it on the mating end of the CL hose. It will stop the CL fluid from leaking while you are dealing with the slave cyl.
Kaz
It's probably too late for you but when installing the new slave cyl, remove the clear plastic dust seal cap that came with the cyl, push in the spigot as far as possible and then place back the clear cap in place.
It will hold the spigot in compressed position that you can install the slave cyl without fighting against the pressure from the release fork.
If you have spare cap, place it on the mating end of the CL hose. It will stop the CL fluid from leaking while you are dealing with the slave cyl.
Kaz
Thanks for the tip Kaz! New slave arrives today so I'll be sure to use the cap trick on the slave. The system is pretty much dry now so I shouldn't need it on the slave hose (which I did replace as recommended)
While we have all of the clutch experts on this thread and it looks like it is about to come to conclusion, thoughts on the clutch damper? Leave it or remove it?
Brad
Brad
Hi Kaz,
Thanks for mentioning about the cap to hold the slave back. I do it so routinely I forgot about it when I wrote my response!!!
Regards,
LarryB
using the cap to hold the slave back worked great. Positioned & installed the slave in less than 5 minutes!
I didn't have anyone to help me, so I used a speedbleeder on the new slave.
Pressurizing an empty system with a speedbleeder was tricky as with the bleeder installed & only air in the system, you won't get enough pressure to open the speedbleeder valve. Ended up keeping the bleeder out & letting gravity pull fluid through the system until there was enough to pressurize the speedbleeder valve to open (kept a small can under the slave to catch the fluid as it came through). I then installed the speedbleeder, opened it, and proceeded as normal. pedal seems much smoother now! Thanks everyone for your help.
Also, I can confirm that the centric slave from rockauto seems to be the oem slave. had the oem part number on the bag, and looked identical. Half the price vs. acura!
I didn't have anyone to help me, so I used a speedbleeder on the new slave.
Pressurizing an empty system with a speedbleeder was tricky as with the bleeder installed & only air in the system, you won't get enough pressure to open the speedbleeder valve. Ended up keeping the bleeder out & letting gravity pull fluid through the system until there was enough to pressurize the speedbleeder valve to open (kept a small can under the slave to catch the fluid as it came through). I then installed the speedbleeder, opened it, and proceeded as normal. pedal seems much smoother now! Thanks everyone for your help.
Also, I can confirm that the centric slave from rockauto seems to be the oem slave. had the oem part number on the bag, and looked identical. Half the price vs. acura!
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I am reviving this old thread because, as stated here, "my clutch pedal went to the floor." So I can see that I need to replace both the clutch master cylinder and slave. And since my 1991 is now 26 years old, I suppose it would also be smart to replace both hoses in the system as well. But i would like to tap into the knowlege base here to make sure I don't miss something.
My 1991 Sebring silver is the quintessential garage queen. I drive it 4-6 times per year about 50-125 miles each time I take it out. In the past 10 years I have only accumulated 3500 miles and the current odometer reading is 53,400 miles. Original clutch and I haven't changed the clutch fluid in 10 years.
The last time I drove it was 3 weeks ago and everything felt great. When I went to start it yesterday, the clutch pedal went to the floor. Looking under the engine, there is a small fluid stain that would be consistent with a leaking slave. Feeling under the carpet and up to the master cylinder, there does not seem to be any evidence of leaked fluid. Clutch fluid was low in the reservoir, but not empty. I added dot3 and pumped the clutch pedal, but no luck. I losened the bleeder on the slave, no fluid at all came out. I removed the bleed valve and it was dry as a bone. I have tied to gravity bleed, but no fluid at all comes out the bleeder. Therefore, I expect that I will have to call and have it towed from my garage to the shop, unless there is sonething else I can try. All input welcome.
I also see from this thread that the clutch master cylinder and slave sold at Rock auto appear to be identical to oem. If this is true, it would save me $150 to order from rock auto instead of from 247hondaparts. Any reason to not buy from rock auto? Any other advice? TIA
My 1991 Sebring silver is the quintessential garage queen. I drive it 4-6 times per year about 50-125 miles each time I take it out. In the past 10 years I have only accumulated 3500 miles and the current odometer reading is 53,400 miles. Original clutch and I haven't changed the clutch fluid in 10 years.
The last time I drove it was 3 weeks ago and everything felt great. When I went to start it yesterday, the clutch pedal went to the floor. Looking under the engine, there is a small fluid stain that would be consistent with a leaking slave. Feeling under the carpet and up to the master cylinder, there does not seem to be any evidence of leaked fluid. Clutch fluid was low in the reservoir, but not empty. I added dot3 and pumped the clutch pedal, but no luck. I losened the bleeder on the slave, no fluid at all came out. I removed the bleed valve and it was dry as a bone. I have tied to gravity bleed, but no fluid at all comes out the bleeder. Therefore, I expect that I will have to call and have it towed from my garage to the shop, unless there is sonething else I can try. All input welcome.
I also see from this thread that the clutch master cylinder and slave sold at Rock auto appear to be identical to oem. If this is true, it would save me $150 to order from rock auto instead of from 247hondaparts. Any reason to not buy from rock auto? Any other advice? TIA
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I bought the Rock auto parts, no issues after almost 2 years. In my experience changing it, it can take MANY pumps of the clutch pedal to fully bleed the system from empty. Just check the reservoir every 5 pumps as Larry said. Definitely change both master and slave at the same time, and the slave hose. Don't forget to buy the correct Honda grease for where the slave touches the fork.
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