Gauge Light Bulbs

Honcho · 25 January 2019

Does anyone have a list of the part numbers and quantity for the gauge cluster? Google search wasn't leading anywhere and I know several owners have done this. I'm going to be sending my cluster to BrianK for cap repair due to the infamous brake light issue and thought it would be a good idea to replace all the bulbs after 26 years of use.

I_M_Legend · 25 January 2019

I'm curious if changing them out will make the gauges brighter as I feel like mine are too dim. In for updates.

Larry Bastanza · 25 January 2019

Check Here:

https://www.acurapartsworld.com/aut...exhaust-heater-fuel-cat/meter-components-scat

HTH,
LarryB

Honcho · 25 January 2019

Larry Bastanza said:
Check Here:

https://www.acurapartsworld.com/aut...exhaust-heater-fuel-cat/meter-components-scat

HTH,
LarryB

Thanks Larry. :encouragement:

Old Guy · 26 January 2019

The diagram showing the location and number of bulbs is located on page 23-130 of the 1991 service manual. There are something like 16 of the 1.4W indicator bulbs which I believe are all the same

35505 TA5 A51 SAE 74 equivalent

There are also 2 x 1.4 W bulbs listed as gauge lights. I believe that these are also SAE 74; but, not 100% sure

There are also 3 x 3.4W gauge lights

37237 sA5 003 SAE 158 equivalent

With the SAE numbers, you should be able to source the bulbs just about anywhere.

It has always irritated me that in the owners manual Honda just lists the bulbs by wattage or candlepower (although they don't even list the gauge lights in the manual). Not particularly helpful if you want to buy spares. A JIS or SAE # would be nice.

drew · 26 January 2019

AliExpress has most everything in LED. Makes them bright or different colors, but they cannot dim.

Old Guy · 26 January 2019

Be cautious with the use of LEDs for the indicator lights. Some LED bulbs have internal full wave rectifier circuits built in to them which makes them insensitive to polarity / bulb orientation. Some LED bulbs do not have the internal full wave rectifier circuits with the result that depending on how you insert the bulb in the socket, it may not light up (one way to deal with that persistent check engine or SRS light). The V/I characteristics of LEDs are distinctly different that incandescent bulbs. If the activation for the indicator light is a simple mechanical switch, the LED indicator should work just fine. If the activation is electronic (turn signals, SRS, EPS, MIL ....), operation might be an unknown.

LEDs for the gauge illumination are not a problem as long as you don't mind the non dimming feature that Drew identified. Depending on the replacement, they may or may not have the polarity sensitivity problem. If you go into the technical specifications pages on websites like Superbright LEDs, they will typically advise whether a particular LED bulb is polarity sensitive.

MotorMouth93 · 29 January 2019

drew said:
AliExpress has most everything in LED. Makes them bright or different colors, but they cannot dim.

If you're going to be swapping LEDs into something like the cluster which is a huge pain in the butt to access I would recommend you buy LEDs from a reputable supplier like SuperBrightLEDs. AliExpress sells a lot of cheap no name components with very iffy quality.

Heineken · 25 April 2020

Old Guy said:
The diagram showing the location and number of bulbs is located on page 23-130 of the 1991 service manual. There are something like 16 of the 1.4W indicator bulbs which I believe are all the same

35505 TA5 A51 SAE 74 equivalent

There are also 2 x 1.4 W bulbs listed as gauge lights. I believe that these are also SAE 74; but, not 100% sure

There are also 3 x 3.4W gauge lights

37237 sA5 003 SAE 158 equivalent

With the SAE numbers, you should be able to source the bulbs just about anywhere.

It has always irritated me that in the owners manual Honda just lists the bulbs by wattage or candlepower (although they don't even list the gauge lights in the manual). Not particularly helpful if you want to buy spares. A JIS or SAE # would be nice.

As I'm currently replacing the capacitors on my Dashboard cluster I had a look at the bulbs, too.

My observations after measurements are as follows (based on 1997 JDM):

	Black (large)	Green	Blue	Black (small)
Part Number	37237-SA5-003 (bulb only) 35505-SA5-003 (incl. socket)	37103-SL0-003 (incl. socket)	37102-S84-003 (incl. socket)	35505-SA5-003 (incl. socket)
Usage	Backlight	Backlight	TCS, Cruise, Top light	Warnings, (Top light)
Ø (bulb)	10 mm	6.5 mm	5 mm	5 mm
SAE	158	?	80 ?	74
Watt	3.4 W	3.0 W*	2.0 W	1.4 W
Glass Socket	W2.1x9.5d	W2x5d	W2x4.6d	W2x4.6d

*measured @ 14 V

In case of normal use only the backlight bulbs need replacement (when they are visibly darkened). Lamps that only light up occasionally don't wear out that fast.
According to the parts lists, blue is used for the top light but in my car they were black (small). When I tried the blue ones there was no real difference in brightness when looking at the dials.

The green ones are listed in the manual as 1.4 W which is definitely wrong.
It's very hard to source them it seems, as the glass socket W2x5d is quite uncommon.

Old Guy · 25 April 2020

Heineken said:
As I'm currently replacing the capacitors on my Dashboard cluster I had a look at the bulbs, too.

Thread-jack alert!

When you removed your old capacitors on your cluster, did you by any chance notice the temperature marked on the bodies? Even better, what are the chances that you have the old parts around with the part numbers? The reason I ask, is that I just went through the capacitor replacement on the CCU on my 2000. I ordered all the capacitors in advance specifying 105 C, 2000 hr capacitors or 5000 hr capacitors where I could find a similar size. The wisdom on the forum was that the existing CCU capacitors were 85 C, 1000 hr capacitors so 105C, 2000 hr should be a reliability improvement. When I pulled my CCU apart, none of the capacitors were leaking or showing any signs of bulging seals. When I started removing the capacitors, I noticed that all of the capacitors were Nichicon ( a main line reputable manufacturer) with a 105C rating and the part numbers corresponding to 2000 hr expected life. In fact, most of my replacement capacitors were Nichicon with the updated 20 year later equivalent part number. In effect, I put back in exactly the same part as I removed - no upgrade. Given that none of my capacitors showed any sign of seal bulging, I am thinking that I just wasted time. I am wondering whether at some point during the NSX production run the vendor for the CCU switched to higher rated capacitors.

I had been thinking about preemptive capacitor replacement on my cluster even though my cluster is not experiencing any of the historical cluster issues. If the instrument cluster on later versions of the NSX is equipped with 105C, 2000 hr capacitors, based upon my CCU experience I think I won't bother. Unnecessarily removing undamaged capacitors is not without its risks if you lift a solder pad in the process. Plus, I get to avoid all the hassle associated with removing that gooey mess of conformal coating which is required to do a good re-solder job.

Hence my question about the capacitors.

Heineken · 25 April 2020

Hi Old-Guy,

Of course I did

Please note that my target was to replace the with dry electrolyte (Aluminium Polymer) types. These are an improvement in almost all categories except price and leakage current. As these are analogue circuits and even some special low-leakage capacitors where originally chosen I decided to stay with wet once except the big buffers (C1).

Left PCB (component view)

Name	Original	Replacement
C1	2200 μF 16 V 105 °C ↨ 20 mm ∅ 12 mm RM5 Nippon Chemicon KMG (wet electrolyte)	2200 μF 16 V 105 °C 20,000 h ↨ 21.5 mm ∅ 10 mm RM5 United Chemicon PSG (dry electrolyte)
C3	3.3 μF 50 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	3.3 μF 50 V 105 °C 10,000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 United Chemicon LE (wet electrolyte)
C5	2.2 μF 50 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	2.2 μF 50 V 105 °C 10,000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 United Chemicon LE (wet electrolyte)
C12	10 μF 50 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	10 μF 50 V 105 °C 10,000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 United Chemicon LE (wet electrolyte)
C17	33 μF 50 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	33 μF 50 V 105 °C 10,000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 6.3 mm RM2.5 United Chemicon LE (wet electrolyte)
C18	47 μF 16 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	47 μF 25 V 105 °C 10,000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 United Chemicon LE (wet electrolyte)
C19	33 μF 10 V 85 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 Nippon Chemicon LLA (wet electrolyte) ⚠ Low Leakage	33 μF 25 V 105 °C 1000 h ↨ 12 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 Nichicon UKL - Low Leakage
C20	10 μF 16 V 85 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 Nippon Chemicon LLA (wet electrolyte) ⚠ Low Leakage	10 μF 25 V 105 °C 1000 h ↨ 12 mm ∅ 5 mm RM2 Nippon Chemicon LLA - Low Leakage
C21	100 μF 16 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 7 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	100 μF 16 V 105 °C 10,000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 6.3 mm RM2 United Chemicon LE (wet electrolyte)

Right PCB (component view)

Name	Original	Replacement
C1	see Left PCB - C1	see Left PCB - C1
C3	see Left PCB - C3	see Left PCB - C3
C5	6.8 μF 25 V 105 °C ↨ 5 mm ∅ 3.5 mm RM2 -unknown manufacturer- (wet electrolyte)	6.8 μF 25 V 105 °C 3000 h ↨ 6 mm ∅ 6.3 mm RM2.5 Panasonic SEP (dry electrolyte) 6.8 μF 25 V 125 °C 2000 h ↨ 13 mm ∅ 10 mm RM5 KEMET A759 (dry electrolyte) 6.8 μF 25 V 125 °C 1000 h ↨ 7 mm ∅ 8 mm RM5 Panasonic SXE (dry electrolyte)
C14	see Left PCB - C12	see Left PCB - C12
C15	47 μF 25 V 105 °C ↨ 7 mm ∅ 7 mm RM2 Nippon Chemicon KMA (wet electrolyte)	47 μF 35 V 125 °C 1000 h ↨ 6 mm ∅ 6.3 mm RM2.5 Panasonic SEK (dry electrolyte) see Left PCB - C18 (alternative)
C17	47 μF 25 V 105 °C ↨ 10 mm ∅ 7 mm RM2 Nippon Chemicon KME (wet electrolyte)	47 μF 25 V 105 °C 1000 h ↨ 12.5 mm ∅ 6.3 mm RM2.5 Nippon Chemicon UEP (wet electrolyte)
C18	See C18 ↑	See C18 ↑

Regarding the theory of too low temperature ratings, my information is partly based on this Japanese report (google translation) and he already observed the well known issues (brake light warning permanently on) even though his cluster was already equipped with 105 °C capacitors. Seems like the reason is not simply the temperature rating. In addition, the caps I observed leaking did no bulge (from the top) but simply leaked down along their legs. The whole things sounds more like a rubber seal deterioration issues especially considering that some ECUs are heavily affected (CCU e. g.) and other practically not (Engine ECU).

PS: The order has not arrived yet so there is a chance of this whole thing not working ..

PPS: Regarding the bulbs I wasted a whole day searching online but here in Europe it's not even possible to source the #74 or #158 reasonably. Will have to order it from Honda .. *sigh*

drew · 25 April 2020

re: illumunation and warning lamps

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php/168013-LED-Speed-Gauge-Cluster-Build

The warning lamps 74 and 80 can be resolved down to an LED wedge T5.

LED color here for manual transmission.
5 Yellow (orange if you can get it)
6 Red
4 Green
1 Blue

The automatic transmission has additional shift indicator lights.

The LED illumination lights as they don't blend the light very well and look like spotlights (which is great for warning lamps). If anybody has solved the blending issue: speak up.

LEDs are polarized, which means you have a 50% chance of a not working condition on the first install, they must be reinstalled 180-degree from previous. The cluster LED needs to be tested with a key-on burn-in prior to the final install.

Old Guy · 26 April 2020

Interesting mix of original capacitors on the cluster. The Chemicon KMG are 105C; but, only 1000 hr. The Chemicon LLA are only 85 C and appear to be 1000 hr. The Chmicon KMA and KME capacitors also appear to have only a 1000 hour rating. So, given the ratings of 85 C and 1000 hr life for some of the capacitors, the change to 105 C and 2000 hr would be a significant improvement. How did you find the 10,000 hr capacitors? I sorted using the Digi-key site and counted myself lucky to find a couple of 5000 hr capacitors in comparable sizes.

The typical failure for electrolytic capacitors is not to rupture the disc on top. That only occurs if there is a short circuit inside the capacitor. The typical ageing failure is leaking around the rubber seal on the bottom of the capacitor or gradual ejection of the seal from the can leading to a lot of leakage. None of the electrolytic capacitors in my CCU were showing any signs of leakage around the leads or any bulging of the rubber seal indicating that it might eject. However, if the cluster has some 85C, 1000 hr capacitors that would be a weak spot. What year is your car. I wonder if the cluster got some upgrades during the production run like the CCU did?

Heineken · 26 April 2020

Thanks for the clarification regarding leakage, the same that I observed. My cluster is from 1997, it's possible that changes have been made but I can't compare it to anything - my family won't agree to a second NSX

As I'm replacing everything in advance I can't tell either when or how they failed.

All caps from the list above are selected from Digikey, did you check in the Aluminium Polymer capacitor section?

Old Guy · 26 April 2020

Heineken said:
All caps from the list above are selected from Digikey, did you check in the Aluminium Polymer capacitor section?

It has been a while since I ordered the parts; but, I think you have probably identified my error. I probably just searched the aluminum electrolytic listing rather than searching through the separate aluminum polymer listing.

The fact that your cluster is from 1987 and that it has some 85C, 1000 hr electrolytic capacitors in it now has me a little bit more concerned about my 2000 cluster. If your cluster had been 1991 or 1992 I could convince myself that Honda might have done an upgrade.

Heineken · 26 April 2020

The parts should be here in a few days.
If the conversion is successful there is going to be a report.
Can't tell at the moment if recalibration is necessary (hopefully not) but if not it would probably be advisable to do the replacement before something breaks.

Big McLargeHuge · 30 April 2020

Side note, I ordered the Philips #74 light bulbs (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0173MKOKI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and the wedge part with the leads was ever so slightly too large to snap in right like the OEM bulbs. They still work, but perhaps not as reliable as ponying up for the OEM Honda bulb & socket combo.

jonmonkey20 · 22 August 2023

Bringing this back to life.

Bought LEDs off of superbrightleds as recommended. Bought the 3 bigger ones and 2 for what I thought was the temp/oil pressure gauge and fuel/ voltage gauges. Used two extras for the overhead lights. Re-installed and none of the gauge lights are working. Flipped all of them and still nothing. The warning lights work fine. Any tips or input?

drew · 22 August 2023

Did you turn up the dimmer to zero?

jonmonkey20 · 22 August 2023

drew said:
Did you turn up the dimmer to zero?

Not sure. Tried checking for that this morning and when the car started the lights were working.

Gauge Light Bulbs

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