Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: 2004 JGTC NSX Engine Spec

  1. #1
    Registered User Zanardi 50's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The NSX & S2000 Capital of the WORLD !
    Posts
    1,227
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Post 2004 JGTC NSX Engine Spec

    Looks to me they're using the same 1995 Le Mans GT1 C30A Twin Turbo engine detuned to 500ps., perhaps to save R&D costs since 2nd Gen NSX is right around the corner. Torque output is a whopping 50% increase from 40 kg.-m to 60 kg.-m! Now why didn't Honda do this 2 years earlier? They'd be kicking Supra's and Skyline's butts left and right! No more excuses for not taking pole position at Fuji Speedway this year!!!

    FYI.
    Nurburgring Nordschleife Touristenfahrten - March 13 2006 - 5 UNFORGETTABLE laps of PURE GREEN HEAVEN!

  2. #2
    Registered User NetViper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Saint Augustine, FL
    Posts
    13,536
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Now they need to offer the turbo on the factory cars for 2005 to end with a bang..
    2000 NSX CTSC |1993 NSX Sold | 1995 NSX BBSC SOLD
    NetViper Interactive Inc Web Design, SEO PPC

  3. #3
    Charter Gold nsx1164's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1,715
    Feedback Score
    3 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    minimal requirements for homologation

    Originally posted by NetViper
    Now they need to offer the turbo on the factory cars for 2005 to end with a bang..
    Not just to end with a bang... aren't there homologation rules for this sort of stuff, to make the car configuration "legal"? Where do I sign up ??

  4. #4
    Registered User Zanardi 50's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The NSX & S2000 Capital of the WORLD !
    Posts
    1,227
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Exclamation Re: 2004 JGTC NSX Engine Spec

    Originally posted by Zanardi 50
    Looks to me they're using the same 1995 Le Mans GT1 C30A Twin Turbo engine detuned to 500ps., perhaps to save R&D costs since 2nd Gen NSX is right around the corner. Torque output is a whopping 50% increase from 40 kg.-m to 60 kg.-m ......
    I stand corrected. According to the NSX article in Japanese language ver. of JGTC.net, the 2004 GT500 2xTurbo engine is of a new design, developed by M-TEC, a subsidiary of Mugen. It's NOT just another de-tuned ver. of the 95 LeMans TT engine orig. built by Honda, although one can speculate that the M-TEC ver. could be based on the LM engine.
    FYI
    Nurburgring Nordschleife Touristenfahrten - March 13 2006 - 5 UNFORGETTABLE laps of PURE GREEN HEAVEN!

  5. #5
    Registered User Zanardi 50's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The NSX & S2000 Capital of the WORLD !
    Posts
    1,227
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: minimal requirements for homologation

    Originally posted by nsx1164
    .....aren't there homologation rules for this sort of stuff, to make the car configuration "legal"? Where do I sign up ??
    I doubt FIA homologation rule applies to JGTC GT500 cars. If such was the case, then the street Supras are to be built for sale to the general public with V-8's since the start of the 2003 season. As we all know, the last of the street Supras were rolled out of Toyota factory in 1999 (correct me on the exact year if I'm wrong), and there never were any Supras with V-8's built before they pulled the plug, nor do Toyota plan on reviving re-production. So much for FIA-style Homologation in GT-A (GT Assoc. of Japan - sanctioning body of JGTC).

    That said, are we likely to see 2004 (or 2005) TT NSX's on the showroom floor throughout the world?

    I don't think so
    Nurburgring Nordschleife Touristenfahrten - March 13 2006 - 5 UNFORGETTABLE laps of PURE GREEN HEAVEN!

  6. #6
    Registered User NetViper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Saint Augustine, FL
    Posts
    13,536
    Feedback Score
    7 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Well, if Honda needed FI to compete with the big boys on the track, they will probably need to go FI to compete with the big boys on the street.
    2000 NSX CTSC |1993 NSX Sold | 1995 NSX BBSC SOLD
    NetViper Interactive Inc Web Design, SEO PPC

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    South OC, CA
    Posts
    105
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Re: Re: minimal requirements for homologation

    Originally posted by Zanardi 50
    I doubt FIA homologation rule applies to JGTC GT500 cars.
    they don't apply to all JGTC cars for that matter. quite simply the GT-A, although affiliated with the FIA in a small way, just operates by a (almost) completely different rule book. a huge difference between FIA GT and JGTC is that the latter allows engine swaps for the car, as long as the engine comes from the same manufacturer. in FIA GT, only engines from the production version of the car are allowed. that's why you can see today's Supras running with Lexus V8s in GT-500 and only a few seasons ago you would've seen an AE86 Trueno racing with the 3S-GTE engine from the venerable MR-2 in GT-300.

    in a sense the FIA GT is a truer, more genuine GT series, with the JGTC more like a "silhouette" series, whose cars differ vastly from their road-going counterparts in chassis construction, suspension, and especially aerodynamics.

    so yeah, don't count on seeing any JGTC-esque cars making it into production

  8. #8
    Registered User RacerX-21's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Hoschton, GA, USA
    Posts
    604
    Feedback Score
    9 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Don’t Mitsubishi and Mercedes make airplane engines? Now that would be a conversion…

    A boosted engine would help the racers be competitive, and the streeters would have the ability to make fair HP gains with less money then it takes for the N/A NSX. This direction would also require less new development and tooling for Honda.
    RacerX-DAL99

  9. #9
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    58
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Right, JGTC cars are VERY far from production models. they can use different engines than come with the production car, and can add or remove turbos at will. the rules call for restrictor plates of different sizes for tubro or NA. there's some nice info in english on their site, http://www.jgtc.net

    the rules are more strict for the bodywork, which is why in japan you can get a snorkel for the engine bay from the honda dealer! i've never seen one on a street car, come to think of it.... anyone have a pic?

    i hadn't heard about the V-8 supras, sounds cool. are these based on some lexus or truck V-8? i really know nothing about toyotas or V-8s, just curious. are they boosting these too?

    M-tech is the new corporate name of Mugen Co., Ltd., after the tax scandal that forced Mr. Honda to resign. they'll still keep "mugen" as a brand name, though. and this is the first time i've heard the name M-tech used in this way- "...M-tech will be building the engines..." interesting, kinda sad, too.

    Jeff

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    25
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The Supras now run bored and stroked NA 5.2L versions of the 4.3L V8s in the Lexus GS/LS430s. The Skylines are running Twin-Turbo'd 3.0L V6, which seem to be doing better than the Supras (since Nissan won the 03 title), but Nissan had more time to tune them in (half of 02 season). I thought the NSXs weren't going to be competitive in 03+ since they had their aerodynamic advantages removed and weight added w/ the rule changes, but I guess the longitudally mounted engine and retuning made up for it. I'm surprised the Skylines aren't running into heat issues w/ twin-turbos pushing 500+hp. The WC-GT Audi RS6s have constant heat issues and are making similar power.

  11. #11
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    58
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cool, thanks for the info on the updates. Interesting that Toyota changed to N/A. I'm curious to see how they do with that. I hadn't heard about the NSXs moving to a longitudinal motor setup. i guess the motor is moved forward for better weight distribution? what are these aero advantages the NSXs no longer have?

    is there a good english-language website that compiles all this neat JGTC news?

    thanks again,
    jeff

  12. #12
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    25
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't remember the exact changes in the 03+ rules for aerodynamics, but it affected how much downforce the NSXs could make. The longitudinal engine mounting allows for less disturbance due to engine movement during accel/decel, so it helps w/ overall balance of the car.
    The Supras did more than I thought...I just read that they changed their chassis and suspension designs, not just to accomodate the new engine, but also to locate the gearbox in the rear of the car as allowed in the new rules for FR layouts. With additional tuning and shaking out the bugs, the Supras would seem to a huge force in 04.
    No really good sites...I just check www.jgtc.net every now and then.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    58
    Feedback Score
    1 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    cool cool, thanks again for the info. i'll explore jgtc.net a bit more!
    jeff

  14. #14
    Registered User Twincam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    http://asia.vtec.net/beystock/honda/...000/index.html

    This will help you to find out what relations have an JGTC NSX with an ordinary one :-)

  15. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    South OC, CA
    Posts
    105
    Feedback Score
    2 (100%)
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    did u guys check out the entry list for the first round race this season? all the skylines have been replaced by fairlady z's, no more lambo diablo gt-1, and hitotsuyama racing switched from the mclaren gtr to a 550GT maranello. lots of changes as usual, should be another interesting year. hopefully they really will be racing at california speedway this year...

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    25
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow! Just looked at the entry list. So many changes. No more Skylines at all! I guess they used the last 1.5 seasons just to tune in the engine. But now, they have to dial-in a whole new chassis setup. Nissan might have a problem w/ the already dialed-in Supras and NSXs in 04.
    MR-Ss replaced w/ Celicas (more now), Mugen's running an NSX in GT300, Silvias replaced by Fairlady's, no more M3s, more 360GTs...damn, lots of changes! I'm sad to see the M3s go. They were doing better on their sophomore season, but the weight enforced on them were really killing them. I wonder what advantages the Celicas are offering over the MR-Ss?

    edit: reading the site Twincam posted...very good stuff! Now I see what changed for the NSXs for 03+. I remember something about the underside panelling for the NSX being limited to a certain x-meters beyond the front, so that affected them aerodynamically since they can't use a completely flat underside. But, they gained advantages in mounting the engine longitudinally by gaining room beneath the engine (no longer have to run exhaust piping below the engine) to mount the engine lower, weight is more evenly distributed side-to-side w/ the headers, and the tranny can be mounted longitudinally also to better center the weight.

    edit: wow, 04 season w/ turbo'd NSXs and Supras going down to 4.5Ls...so many changes!
    Last edited by jsrsx; 03-30-2004 at 16:35.

  17. #17
    Registered User Zanardi 50's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    The NSX & S2000 Capital of the WORLD !
    Posts
    1,227
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Originally posted by jsrsx
    ...... Now I see what changed for the NSXs for 03+. I remember something about the underside panelling for the NSX being limited to a certain x-meters beyond the front, so that affected them aerodynamically since they can't use a completely flat underside. But, they gained advantages in mounting the engine longitudinally by gaining room beneath the engine (no longer have to run exhaust piping below the engine) to mount the engine lower, weight is more evenly distributed side-to-side w/ the headers, and the tranny can be mounted longitudinally also to better center the weight.
    Advantages '03 GT NSX's gained from engine re-orientation and improved weight distribution did little to compensate for loss of rear downforce, thus reduced its cornering performance, not to mention the + 70kg. penalty wt. -- 50kg for MR layout and 20kg. for winning constructor's title prev. year -- only added insult to the injury. In contrast, '03 Skylines was allowed 20kg. wt. reduction and Supras were left alone. Care to guess which car won last year's GT500 class constructor's as well as driver's title?

    Quotes taken from JGTC Special Report 2003 Vol.1 - 2003 Tech Regulation: A Look at the Honda NSX:

    "For 2003, a ruling that has been enforced for a number of years in the Le Mans and FIA regulations makes it way into the JGTC. Between the centerlines of the front and rear wheels of the car, the underbody must be fitted with a flat bottom. As a result, the down force of the car is affected remarkably. "My first impression of the car during the shakedown was... 'My goodness. What's that feeling? There's a bit less down force, I wonder?'" commented Daisuke Ito after driving the No.16 NSX entered by Mugen. "If we set the rear wing-angle to that of last year, there is entirely too little grip. There has been a tremendous reduction in down force."

    One of the NSX's strongest points in the past has been aerodynamics. "The Honda NSX has been a quick car owing to its amazing down force," Ito continued, "We'll surely suffer more than our rivals with these new regulations."
    Nurburgring Nordschleife Touristenfahrten - March 13 2006 - 5 UNFORGETTABLE laps of PURE GREEN HEAVEN!

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    socal
    Posts
    25
    Feedback Score
    0
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The NSX's didn't do nearly as bad as I thought they would tho. They had several podium finishes (if I remember correctly) and numerous top 10s. Not too bad considering it was a "relatively" small NA engine against a monster V8 and a TT V6 in a heavier chassis. Still amazing on the performance and level of competition it had w/ such disadvantages. I guess everyone's got numerous things to T&T for 04. I wish they could've kept the NSX NA tho. How are they getting enough cold air to the IC w/ it located in the rear to not run into heat issues during an enduro?

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •