S2000 owner thinking of next NSX......help....

[Archon]

Hi All,

I own a 2002 S2000 and thinking the next car up for me is the next NSX. I know every rumor out there, from a Mugen V-8 to the chassis will be steel to the car costing less than $60K or more than $100K. My question is do you think Honda would do this?

IMO: Honda will make the next NSX cost less than a base 911 but have the performance numbers equal to a 911 Turbo or 360 Modena. Reason being is anything short of that is not newsworthy. The NSX is a car made to showcase technology, not to turn a profit. Therefore it would be boring and not wise for Honda to make a car that cost $100K+ with a V-8 and performance slightly better than a C5 Corvette. There is nothing special about this and in the end the 911 and 360 will still outsell the NSX and have more "Prestige" in the general public's eyes.

If Honda makes a new NSX, IMHO...it will have a engine similar to my S2000... a 3.X V6 generating 400+ Hp at 9000 RPMs, lighter and more balanced than a Modena, handling and braking better than a Modena, but will cost less than a base 911. This would be in vain of Honda's tradition of doing it better and cheaper than the best out there. You guys think this will happen or will Honda make the current 02 NSX for 3 years then just copy a Modena at a Modena price? I really can't see Honda making a V-8 when they can obviously engineer a V-6 with equal power.........

Thanks for listening,

Archon

[nsxtasy]

Hi Archon,

As you properly note, the rumors flying around have been all over the map. Which will turn out to be true? Your guess is as good as mine. About all that's been confirmed is that there will be a next-gen NSX in another couple of years.

If you're looking for actionable information, I would suggest you only consider that something will be coming along in a couple of years. Don't worry about what it will be. It seems like there is always something newer and faster and better coming along. Unless you know something's coming within the next six months, just keep or buy what you want to have now, and enjoy it in the meantime.

[CDub]

I know what I am going to say will get reaction from some folks like "What the... if they do that, they'll loss a customer" That was my initial reaction.

But just think about it. Archon has a very good assessment of Honda's philosophy... break through, new and innovative.

Can you imagine Honda come out with an NSX with a V6 and an electric motor driving 4 wheels and can do 0-60 in 4 sec and can get 40 miles to the gallon. (Some one have talked about it already, I believe)

Today's hybrid cars are all econoboxes, so I don't blame you for thinking that way. I did... Honda should be the first company to offer a hi-performance sports car using this approach and they'll be repeating history with a break through. It'll be new... and innovative, right? Like what they did with all aluminum design, titanium push rod, best outward vision mid engine design, daily drivable. These are all new to production cars back in the early 90's. A hydrid will be a quantum leap in the sports car market.

They have already shown us the DuoTone (sp?) that they can do it. The terms "hydrid" and "hi-performance" are oximoron today. People frown upon the term "hybrid", but a short drive in such car will quickly change our minds if they can pull this off.

I envision other companies will follow suit. Whether Honda can work out the kinks before their 2004 release in another matter. Either way, I plan to wait for what they have to offer with an open mind.

Chris

[mlambert890]

I think there is a limit to how much loss Honda can realistically take and still bother producing the car.

The crappy econobox electrical cars are HUGELY subsidized by the manufacturers thanks to government pressure and are still substantially more than their gas equiavalents.

There are simply chemical and physical limits around what we are able to do with current battery technology. An independent scientific study commissioned by the US DOE confirmed that any improvement in electric cell technology sufficient enough to actually make these cars competition for gas cars (meaning low cost, long range, lots of power) is at LEAST 10 years off. That's why we are seeing so many hybrids.

I guess Honda could produce some sort of odd, hybrid, ultra high performance car and brand it NSX, but it would be enormously expensive for them.

To be honest, even producing a Corvette Z06 equivalent that is up to the Honda level of build quality and features some technical innovation for ~$60k would be a stretch.

Honda has to be very careful how they position themselves at this point.

[This message has been edited by spookyp (edited 11 April 2002).]

[MAJOR STONER]

It will be cheaper and expect it to look something like a Lexus SC 430 with the top up.

[mlambert890]

That would be horribly depressing If that's the case, I guess there will be a Porsche in my future.

It seems that Porsche may be the only high quality, somewhat affordable, daily driveable sports car destined to be left standing.

[NSX2F1]

Have any of you thought that Honda had delayed the launch of the 2nd Gen?
I always think about this. I think that they are 99% finished with the 2nd Gen couple years ago and went back to reengineering the prototype because something like the Z06 was in GM's pipeline.

In terms of technology, I second Chris's opinion. They will utilize the most efficient engine and crank the highest horsepower possible from the engine. S2000 is an excellent example of this philosophy. Ditto with current NSX, RSX Type S, Integra Type R, CL-TL Type S, etc.

But an argument on the other side is their commitment to Acura brand. I would imagine that AHM's marketing begged and swore for a V8 for its Acura flagship, the RL. If Honda wants to compete with its arch rivals, Toyota in good old USA, they will need a V8 luxury sedan, and possibly SUV. Seeing from this point of view, I see a V8 engine coming.
And the NSX is a possible recipient.

Just IMHO.

[CDub]

I guess the V8 is the obvious choice and a conservative one, but they'll face all the competition from Porsches, vipers and vetts on hp and torque.

On the other hand, a hybrid will be a one up and that'll send a panic to the rest of the automotive world. As a marketing guy, I'd prefer being a trend setting than a follower. They did it once with the gen 1. I hope they do it again.

Electric cars are 10 years away is probably true, but a hybrid should be a lot closer. Is it 2 years away? I guess we have to wait and see.

[This message has been edited by CDube (edited 11 April 2002).]

[socal28]

I think, in my opinion only, the next gen NSX will be V-8 powered but the cost will remain the same if not higher. Think about it, the nsx now is already near the $100k mark and BMW M3's are matching if not beating it in straight line performance...and Honda is still selling it like hotcakes.
Honda will rely on it's name, engineering and reliability to sell their cars. They were never leaders in power performance, maybe in handling though.
Just my $.02

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Pics of my TL
Pics of my S2000

[This message has been edited by socal28 (edited 12 April 2002).]

[ck]

Originally posted by socal28:
I think, in my opinion only, the next gen NSX will be V-8 powered but the cost will remain the same if not higher. Think about it, the nsx now is already near the $100k mark and BMW M3's are matching if not beating it in straight line performance...and Honda is still selling it like hotcakes.
Honda will rely on it's name, engineering and reliability to sell their cars. They were never leaders in power performance, maybe in handling though.
Just my $.02

I don't consider 400 cars a year "selling like hotcakes"

[MAJOR STONER]

The new Civic doesn't have v-tec, because Honda is sick of the moaning about having to drive it like a race car, and the funky dip in the middle of the powerband. 20% less peak hp/20% more torque. What this means for the next flagship car (might not be an NSX), I don't care to guess at yet...but let's just say that the BMW M3 makes it's peak torque at 1500 rpm. I think that a i-vtec six cylinder engine driving the rears is enough, something has to give or we will be driving 500+ hp cars soon.

[Dr.Honda]

I think the next generation NSX will set the tone for Honda's future. Honda needs to decide if they still want to compete in the supercar marketplace. The S2000 and the RSX have become their win on Sunday, sell on Monday sportscars. The new NSX will be aimed
squarely at the 360 Ferrari and it will need to be a 400hp midengine car with exotic technology to do so. Honda will also need to
get back in to Formula One to help promote it. This is what I hope happens, what I fear is a midengine Insight.

[socal28]

Originally posted by ck:
I don't consider 400 cars a year "selling like hotcakes"

Really? That's it?

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by MAJOR STONER:
The new Civic doesn't have v-tec

Yes, it does. The base 115-hp Civic (DX and LX) doesn't, but the 117-hp Civic HX, the 127-hp Civic EX, the 160-hp Civic Si, and the Civic Hybrid all do.

Originally posted by MAJOR STONER:
the BMW M3 makes it's peak torque at 1500 rpm.

You're batting 0 for 2. The BMW M3 makes its peak torque of 262 lb-ft at 4900 rpm.

[Jimbo]

"...The NSX is a car made to showcase technology, not to turn a profit...."

When Honda started out they indeed intended to make a profit. The NSX production line was designed to build 6,000 units per year (a quote that Honda put out in 1990). At 400 or so units per year they are obviously not running at a profit.

The Honda DualNote is a 4 seater prototype. I really doubt that a combo V6-electric hybrid is in the cards for the NSX. Such a NSX while it might have 400 HP would also weight signficantly more than the alternative rumored V8. That's why, I believe, Honda chose a large 4 passenger sports sedan to showcase this concept.

All the reliable rumors seem to be consistent that the next gen NSX will use the V8 from the next RL. I have less faith that the next NSX will be steel or that it will have a dramatically different price than the current model.

If they add a 400 HP V8, keep the weight around the same and have new knockout styling, I think they would at least have a shot at keeping the price at current levels.

As I've said before, I think the current car at an approx $90K list price is about $15K-$20K too high.

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by socal28:

Originally posted by ck:
I don't consider 400 cars a year "selling like hotcakes"

Really? That's it?

..and I believe that is the Worldwide production figure.

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'91 Black/Black

[Jimbo]

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/General/...ionnumbers.htm

Except for a modest blip when the T was introduced, production numbers have been steadily declining.

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords