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Comtech vrs. GroupM supercharger
- Thread starter ladman
- Start date
Maybe I'm getting old, but I personally prefer the clean look of the Comptech unit. It looks like that's what Honda had in mind in the first place. As far as performance goes, I think I recall seeing somewhere that the Gruppe M unit is a liitle stronger in torque than the CT supercharger.
I really prefer the clean, well-engineered look of the Comptech blower over the bolted-on, boy racer look of the Gruppe M unit. Also, the core of the Comptech unit is a Whipple, which is (IMHO) the best supercharger there is. Isn't the Gruppe M an Eaton unit? If so, it is not in the same category. Eatons are used in production cars because they are affordable and reliable, but it would not be my choice if I were starting with a blank sheet of paper.
I own the CT SC and think that from an engineering standpoint, it is superior (keep it simple, stupid!) I recently drove a car with the GM kit, and think it right on par performance-wise, as well as the fact that it makes a cooler sound at full boost than the CT kit. However, in the final analysis, I would still have chosen the CT over the GM.
You can see the CT supercharger at comptechusa.com and the Gruppe M unit at daliracing.com.
They both look like Whipple screw-type units, but I still say that Comptech has the superior install.
I would take the Comptech because of the very clean looking install and that Doug Hayashi uses one without problems in his race car.
Excuse me! Please someone correct me if I am wrong, but Lud's photo post above show that these two systems are completely different.
The CT system looks refined like an OEM system and relatively small in size, while the Gruppe system looks like crude aftermarket assembly and sticks up out of the engine compartment like a sore thumb.
The CT system remains hidden under a replacement engine compartment cover, but the Gruppe system sits so high out of the engine compartment that no engine cover can be used, and it may actually obstruct rear vision! If this is true, then the Gruppe system will not work for an NXS-T, because there's nowhere to store the T-top!
Does anyone know if my observations correct on this?
NSXY
The CT system looks refined like an OEM system and relatively small in size, while the Gruppe system looks like crude aftermarket assembly and sticks up out of the engine compartment like a sore thumb.
The CT system remains hidden under a replacement engine compartment cover, but the Gruppe system sits so high out of the engine compartment that no engine cover can be used, and it may actually obstruct rear vision! If this is true, then the Gruppe system will not work for an NXS-T, because there's nowhere to store the T-top!
Does anyone know if my observations correct on this?
NSXY
Another observation: The CT system uses an OEM-like triangular reinforcment bar over the engine to enhance rigidity through this inherently weak "hole" in the body, whereas the Gruppe system uses a single horizontal carbon bar at the very back of the compartment. The Gruppe install is so big, that there's no room left to use a trianglular reinforcement.
I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that the two dimensional structure of a trianglar support, is vastly more effective for conferring rigidity to the engine compartment than would be a one-dimensional rod.
Am I looking at these photos wrong, or what?
If my visual observations are correct, then the use of the Gruppe reinforcement would actually result in less body rigidity than doing nothing at all and keeping the stock triangle system.
RSVP anyone?
NSXY
I'm not an engineer, but it seems to me that the two dimensional structure of a trianglar support, is vastly more effective for conferring rigidity to the engine compartment than would be a one-dimensional rod.
Am I looking at these photos wrong, or what?
If my visual observations are correct, then the use of the Gruppe reinforcement would actually result in less body rigidity than doing nothing at all and keeping the stock triangle system.
RSVP anyone?
NSXY
- Joined
- 3 February 2000
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The M charger in the photo is installed in a '91 or '92 coupe. The coupes only come with the single bar. The Comptech blower is installed in a -T; the -Ts come with the triangular bars to help compensate for cutting the top. I don't know what happens if you install the M charger in a -T.
well, I just like to say that only in America do people get NSX-Ts....
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Please visit my NSX tuning page! Mods, Japanese NSX related stuff, pics!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/6073/index.html
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Please visit my NSX tuning page! Mods, Japanese NSX related stuff, pics!
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Dojo/6073/index.html
Power Plus Supercharger Kit (NSX Coupe 91-94) $9800.00
Is it really worth the price ?
Is it really worth the price ?
get the Basch Boost
I recommend the BaschBoost as well - Mark is the NSX GOD. If I didn't have my CTSC, I'd definitely get his.
Don't get me wrong - the CT is probably the best engineered after-market system I've seen - it's wonderfully designed, looks good, and works without blowing your car up.
As for the GM - many of us call it the "Wart" - you can see why by the pictures.
Call Mark up and chat with him - he'll answer all of your questions.
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David Allen
'00 Silverstone NSX-T
Comptech SC, Headers, Intake, Exhaust & a little Mark Basch tweakage
Don't get me wrong - the CT is probably the best engineered after-market system I've seen - it's wonderfully designed, looks good, and works without blowing your car up.
As for the GM - many of us call it the "Wart" - you can see why by the pictures.
Call Mark up and chat with him - he'll answer all of your questions.
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David Allen
'00 Silverstone NSX-T
Comptech SC, Headers, Intake, Exhaust & a little Mark Basch tweakage
I've driven both the CT and Gruppe M blown NSXs. I prefer the CT unit. It's a cleaner install and goes under the engine cover. The Gruppe M takes up too much room and has too much plumbing.
As for power delivery, both are strong. The CT has a nice whistle to it when you're on it and it sounds like a nice whirlwind machine while cruising on the freeway. The Gruppe M is virtually quiet at freeway speeds when your on the throttle just to maintain your speed. When you slowly hit the gas, you'll start to hear a hiss and then when you womp on it, it gets loud, I mean LOUD. Sounds like noisy mechanical gears with a whine. I personally don't like the noise it makes.
It may be a matter of preference. Between the two, my pick would be the CT.
Vytas
[This message has been edited by Vytas (edited 28 January 2002).]
As for power delivery, both are strong. The CT has a nice whistle to it when you're on it and it sounds like a nice whirlwind machine while cruising on the freeway. The Gruppe M is virtually quiet at freeway speeds when your on the throttle just to maintain your speed. When you slowly hit the gas, you'll start to hear a hiss and then when you womp on it, it gets loud, I mean LOUD. Sounds like noisy mechanical gears with a whine. I personally don't like the noise it makes.
It may be a matter of preference. Between the two, my pick would be the CT.
Vytas
[This message has been edited by Vytas (edited 28 January 2002).]
I own a Comptech SC on a '00 NSX-T and I agree with all of the comments so far.
The only thing I have to add is that the cover that Comptech provides for the NSX-T is very poor.
If you are considering a new supercharger, I would recommend waiting a little while longer for the Baschboost. With this installation you can keep your stock engine cover, have more power & spend less money! How could you ask for more, if I hadn't already purchased the Comptech, I would of been first on his list for one.
Good Luck!
The only thing I have to add is that the cover that Comptech provides for the NSX-T is very poor.
If you are considering a new supercharger, I would recommend waiting a little while longer for the Baschboost. With this installation you can keep your stock engine cover, have more power & spend less money! How could you ask for more, if I hadn't already purchased the Comptech, I would of been first on his list for one.
Good Luck!
Guys,
Before you go knocking off the Gruppe M supercharger, aka "the wart," consider a few factoids about it:
1. It is the ONLY supercharger kit out there that includes ECU upgrades, which allows fuel (injector duty cycles, etc.) and timing management by electronics, not by crude mechanical means as the "other" SC or turbo kits do. More expensive, and more reliable technology. And its been standard issue on the Gruppe M kit since its inception, which was about the same time the CT kit was introduced several years ago.
2. It is the ONLY kit that includes OEM higher flowing injectors, that fit under the OEM fuel rails without modifications. Copied by others in their "higher boost" kits.
3. It not only produces "a little bit more torque," but a LOT more at LOWER RPMS.
4. The Comptech kit, in its quest for aesthetics, crams the blower unit between the "V" of the engine. This requires chopping up the factory intake manifold, altering the flow characteristics (read "reducing") of the unit. Thus you can only get so much HP out of it up to a certain boost level. At 6 psi, the Gruppe M unit produces more HP and torque than the CT at 9 psi.
5. The Gruppe M kit may appear to have more tubing, but in reality, there isn't any more than what's from the factory, save a couple more lines to the ECU. The only reason it appears so is because the throttle body is moved further up and away from the intake manifold, upstream of the blower.
6. The rearward visibility is not any worse than that of an NSX-T with the bulkier engine cover. You just miss the area underneath the rear spoiler.
7. There is actually a version available for NSX-T owners, with a special triangulated strut brace and a special ECU for the fly-by-wire throttle system.
8. If you think Hayashi haven't had any problems with his SC kit, think again.
Aesthetics? Well, that's purely subjective. If you base your go-fast parts purchases mostly on how it looks, not on performance, engineering, and parts quality, then the Gruppe M SC is probably not for you.
Exactly why I purchased it over anything else. The looks just kinda grew on me. Besides, if it bothers you so much, just tint your rear hatch glass.
;-)
Before you go knocking off the Gruppe M supercharger, aka "the wart," consider a few factoids about it:
1. It is the ONLY supercharger kit out there that includes ECU upgrades, which allows fuel (injector duty cycles, etc.) and timing management by electronics, not by crude mechanical means as the "other" SC or turbo kits do. More expensive, and more reliable technology. And its been standard issue on the Gruppe M kit since its inception, which was about the same time the CT kit was introduced several years ago.
2. It is the ONLY kit that includes OEM higher flowing injectors, that fit under the OEM fuel rails without modifications. Copied by others in their "higher boost" kits.
3. It not only produces "a little bit more torque," but a LOT more at LOWER RPMS.
4. The Comptech kit, in its quest for aesthetics, crams the blower unit between the "V" of the engine. This requires chopping up the factory intake manifold, altering the flow characteristics (read "reducing") of the unit. Thus you can only get so much HP out of it up to a certain boost level. At 6 psi, the Gruppe M unit produces more HP and torque than the CT at 9 psi.
5. The Gruppe M kit may appear to have more tubing, but in reality, there isn't any more than what's from the factory, save a couple more lines to the ECU. The only reason it appears so is because the throttle body is moved further up and away from the intake manifold, upstream of the blower.
6. The rearward visibility is not any worse than that of an NSX-T with the bulkier engine cover. You just miss the area underneath the rear spoiler.
7. There is actually a version available for NSX-T owners, with a special triangulated strut brace and a special ECU for the fly-by-wire throttle system.
8. If you think Hayashi haven't had any problems with his SC kit, think again.
Aesthetics? Well, that's purely subjective. If you base your go-fast parts purchases mostly on how it looks, not on performance, engineering, and parts quality, then the Gruppe M SC is probably not for you.
Exactly why I purchased it over anything else. The looks just kinda grew on me. Besides, if it bothers you so much, just tint your rear hatch glass.
;-)
Alex's GruppeM SC is the exception. I haven't seen a single blower (including the chrome Vortec) that looks sweeter than that setup. I think the standard GruppeM SC setup may look a bit plain, but with some creativity you can make it look like a million bucks.
Anyone on this board who hasn't seen Alex's engine bay in person is really missing out.
That car didn't win some competitions for nothing. At the Concourse, the entire crowd was basically gathered around that NSX.
It does stick out, so if you must have an engine cover it's not for you. However, one look at Alex's engine bay will convince anyone that this setup can be beautiful as well.
Yes, the piping removes the possibility of using an engine cover. It also increases the torque the unit puts out. Same principle wih Larry's new turbo. He went for performance over looks. I've ridden in the near final incarnation a couple weeks ago. It hauls ars like it's never hauled ars before.
Anyone on this board who hasn't seen Alex's engine bay in person is really missing out.
That car didn't win some competitions for nothing. At the Concourse, the entire crowd was basically gathered around that NSX.
It does stick out, so if you must have an engine cover it's not for you. However, one look at Alex's engine bay will convince anyone that this setup can be beautiful as well.
Yes, the piping removes the possibility of using an engine cover. It also increases the torque the unit puts out. Same principle wih Larry's new turbo. He went for performance over looks. I've ridden in the near final incarnation a couple weeks ago. It hauls ars like it's never hauled ars before.
You guys need to see the Hennessy SC. One of our local club members bought it 2 years from the Midwest (only 4 or 5 were ever made), and comments from Comptech and instructors on the track were awesome .... he gets something like 375 rwhp, and came with custom made titanium exhaust ....... and he got it for an absolute bargain ........
I think Tim Meekins may have a picture of it somewhere .....
I think Tim Meekins may have a picture of it somewhere .....
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