protection from salt and sun??

[Andrew_Stockland]

I just moved to jacksonville, Florida. My '91 red NSX has a great paint job. the problem is the constant intense sun, and salt water air and dew on my car. What car wax is best for this protection. I read the FAQ section here which mostly talks about shine. Consumer reports rates Prestone very highly...surprisingly. how about 3M? Or do I need an expensive carnuba (is this thought of more highly secondary to snob appeal??)
Also, how often to wax?? Can you wax too much?? Thanks...

[Jimbo]

Andrew,

This is a hotly debated topic on this and many other automotive forums.

I personally love the Zaino products for the shine as well as the protection.
http://www.zainobros.com/

Their product is not a wax but a synthetic polish. It doesn't contain abrasives and provides amazing protection.

Waxes and polishes were recently the subject of a test over on the NSXSC site...
http://www.nsxsc.com/nsexcitement/waxtest.html

You can find some info on Zaino on the NSX Prime FAQ. You can also search the forums for Zaino threads as well. There's been many a discussion and debate on waxes and polishes. It's my impression that a significant number of NSX owners are starting to use Zaino.

You can purchase it directly from Zaino, or you can order it from a local Zaino dealer.

Ask Zaino for the dealer nearest you.

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 17 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 17 August 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 03 February 2003).]

[nsxtasy]

the constant intense sun, and salt water air and dew on my car. What car wax is best for this protection.

Zymol makes a carnauba-based wax called Titanium Glaze that is specially developed to be highly resistant to salt acids, plant sap and proteins. Titanium contains 51 percent Brazilian No. 1 Yellow and No. 1 White Carnauba by volume (80% Yellow, 20% White).

how about 3M?

3M has an excellent line of car detailing products.

Or do I need an expensive carnuba (is this thought of more highly secondary to snob appeal??)

Carnauba is an extremely hard substance derived from a South American plant. It is the primary gloss and protection substance used by the major brands of car detailing products.

Also, how often to wax??

You should set up your own regimen, including all three steps for proper detailing: washing the car, cleaning the finish (to remove oxidation and other contaminants), and protecting it with wax. Decide for yourself how often you need to perform each step, based on your own demands as well as how long your finish lasts given your usage and environment.

[Electro]

If you're looking for more of a permanent solution / maintenance free - try permafinish.

I'm about to apply this to my car- check out their website for more info: (they're located just east of atlanta, GA)
http://www.permafinish.com

I'll let you all know how mine turns out... I was quoted $380 for my entire NSX. And they garuntee that you don't have to wax your car for 6 years... that's well worth it to me in time and other wax materials over that amount of time.

-Electro

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Electro:
I'll let you all know how mine turns out...

Electro, did you ever have this done? If so, can you tell us how it has worked out?

[mikec]

I'm skeptical about products like this. Are they different from other waxes/polishes/zaino/zymol stuff we put on?

I would love not to wax my car for six years and still have it look just as shiney and know that the paint is protected against the evils of nature.

Let me know too.



------------------
keep the shiny side up
MikeC 01 #46

[Bobby C 01TA]

Unfortunatly I doubt there is anything out there that can protect your paint for 6 yrs much less 6 months.. Theres waxes and polishes out that claim no more waxing ever again or it last for a year etc.. its all BS.. I personally use Zaino and its alot more durable than anything I have used before. Sun/rain/salt/debris will always be there and unless your car is almost always garaged and never been in any kinda weather, over the years the paint will fade unless you apply some kind of protectant on it. Someone also did a Zymol(the one thats specially made for the NSX) vs Zaino test and out of 10 venues, This was done on an NSX.. the Zaino just won hands down. I will post the link up for you when I find it. Use what ya like.. Everyone will have a opinion on products! Dont knock it till ya try it!

[JaguarXJ6]

Zaino hands down for lasting great looking protection. Only two products on the market, both carnuba's, can beat Zaino in looks but not by much.

They are P21S (Factory Porsche touted wax, ~$25 USD for 8oz) and Pinnacle Souveran (~$60 USD for 12oz). The problem with the carnubas, while you could wax in 20-30 minutes by hand and be finished (they are designed to wipe off wet, easiest stuff out there to apply), they are toast in 2-3 weeks for durability and looks.

Zaino came a close third in looks and is untouched for durability.

Zaino was the only product of nearly 4 dozen products that survived a week long blizzard over a month after being applied and the debris washed right off, felt, and protected as if nothing happened. Zaino's the king of polishes.

I use both of these "premium" waxes on my black metallic paint and my daily driver (1500-1700 miles/month) and I wax once every two weeks. It makes me make "car time" to detail, clean the interior of dust, the undercarriage, check fluids, etc etc.

Choose the product that best suits your needs.

Edit: I picked up the wax/synthetic test report from www.gurureports.org for less then $20 USD and they tested 46 products against one another for 8 weeks. Zaino was still protecting after 6 months with only a wipe down after a storm, etc. It was a completely independant test not supported or endorsed by any manufacturer, using their own pocket $$ to purchase every product, including making the identical test panels.

Sunny

[This message has been edited by JaguarXJ6 (edited 03 February 2003).]

[Jimbo]

Sunny,

The Gurureports.org wax test was pretty good.

Here's more info on Zaino and Gurureports for those who are interested...
http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum9/HTML/001084.html

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
2003 MINI Cooper S - On Order - All Black
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

[Soichiro]

Any good wax applied regularly will help you out. Just stay away from the cheapo products and you will be fine. Don't forget to use products for your interior and rubber parts that contain a sunscreen, and don't forget to go over the soft rubber seals once a year with the correct protectant. I like Zymol's Treat for leather, Vinyl for vinyl and Seal for the door seals, plus Black Again for tires and other exterior rubber parts.

[nsxtasy]

I get outstanding results - including terrific, long-lasting gloss and depth to the finish - from the Zymol products that I use. Others agree, which is why Zymöl is so often the choice of the leading professionals in the business. Zymöl was used for the 1934 Voisin that was chosen Best in Show, as well as the majority of first, second, and third place winners throughout the field, at the 2002 Pebble Beach Concours d’Elegance, the top concours event in the country.

As noted elsewhere, Zymol products contain more carnauba than other products on the market, they are easy to apply, and they last a long time. A single application of each product is all that is needed, with no need to apply layer after layer after layer. And I don't have to worry about what's in them or what those ingredients are doing to my car's finish, since Zymol contains all natural ingredients and fully discloses the contents of all its products, and has filed Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) with the government on its products, like most, but not all, major manufacturers of detailing products.

When a company like Perma-Finish comes along, I am curious but skeptical, particularly when they claim that it "actually changes the molecular structure of the original finish to which it is applied", which sounds scary to me, considering the quality of the finish on the NSX. That's why I would like to hear from Electro and anyone else who has used it to see how they like it.

[JaguarXJ6]

Here's caution to the wind..

A couple cheapo products out there are actually superior to some of the so called premium waxes, depending on if your going for looks, protection, price, or ease of use.

Here's a snip of some of the rankings from that test that Jim and I have. I'll take pics of the test (scanner is inop right now) and host them for you to see. I can do this tonight after I get home from work.

1. Zaino Brother's Polish - looks in the top three, king of durability, easier then ever to apply
2. P21S Concours-look Carnuba - best looking product, toast after 3 weeks when Zaino takes over
3. Klasse All-in-One and Sealant Glaze
4. Armor All Protective Barrier
5. Pinnacle Souveran - tied with Zaino in looks, also toast after 3 weeks
6. Pinnacle Paste Glaz Carnuba
7. Rain Dance Premium - name doesn't imply best protection, go for Zaino
8. Mother's California Gold Carnuba Cleaner - availability is awesome
9. Collinite Marque D'Elegance
10. Mother's California Gold Pure Carnuba...

29. Zymol Carbon Carnuba
35. Zymol SUV Zurtle Natural Liquid
36. Zymol Titanium Carnuba
40. Zymol Concours Carnuba

The higher the content of carnuba, the more additives that need to be added to make it spread. Carnuba is plain DULL and its the blended in additives that give it shine. The purity and refinement process also matters greatly.

I show both my cars, one a weekend driver, the other my daily driver. Even with door dings, bumper scrapes, scratches, a rock chipped/beaten front end, fender lip road rash, peeling chrome on my rims, and at one point, my passenger's side door mirror missing, I can polish and clean my daily driver to outscore flawless garage queens that have half my mileage.

That says a lot for the products, and the technique, that allows my battle hardened daily driver to compete and win against sand baggin' cars or true show cars that rarely touch pavement. In the show world, cleanliness is next to godliness.

Black paint + premium products - lots of little cosmetic damage = never less then 2nd place out of my 6-12 competitors.

It all comes down to, what are you after. The best look, the best price, the ease of use, availability, etc.

Sunny

Edit: Besides fixing grammar errors, here are some Pebble pictures. I compete against of some of those who showed, though we are in way different classes, in an unofficial, who's technique is best competition http://www.lajagclub.com/pebblebeach2002.htm

[This message has been edited by JaguarXJ6 (edited 04 February 2003).]

[nsxtasy]

I am still mistrustful of products whose manufacturers don't reveal what's in them. I can only assume that they have something to hide.

The big names in the business all file MSDS's with the government, so that anyone using them in the workplace (such as those working for professional detailers) knows of any risks in using them. I am mistrustful of products whose manufacturers have not filed an MSDS.

I use mostly Zymol products, with a few Meguiars products for specific applications. I get great results, and I don't have to worry about any hazards for myself or my car.

I am also mistrustful about the results of that wax test, because I have personally used many of the highest-rated products and find them inferior to the Zymol products that were ranked much lower. Call me skeptical, but I believe my own personal experience over someone else's test. Particularly when that someone else releases a test that ranks a product low, the product's fanatical users complain, and suddenly they release revised results that show that product ranking high. That just doesn't pass the "sniff test" to me.

[Jimbo]

Here's the explanation from Gurureports on their change of opinion on Zaino...

"...I won't go into too much detail about the "Z ordeal," but suffice it to say that Zaino users are a loyal group. Saying something bad about their favorite product is like calling someone's mamma "fat and ugly." It just doesn't go over well. We fought and resisted, but after a week or so, we decided to regroup and lend an open ear to the Zaino users. What we learned was that we had applied the Zaino incorrectly, which quickly explained our less than stellar initial results. Once we screwed our heads on straight, and actually read the directions that came with our Zaino, we were quickly singing a different tune - Zaino rocked!"

Seems pretty straightforward to me.

I do agree with Ken on his "...but I believe my own personal experience over someone else's test..." comment however. I also think that the many people on this and other forums are also basing their enthusiasm for Zaino on that very reason!

-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
2003 MINI Cooper S - On Order - All Black
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

[nsxtasy]

Getting back to the reason why this thread was resurrected...

So I take it no one here has used Perma-Finish?

[Jimbo]

I did a Google search on "Perma-Finish" and hardly anything came up on the automotive finish.

Seems like no one is using it.

-Jim

PS: Here's something humorous...
http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/c...re=1&langue=us

[PHOEN$X]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
PS: Here's something humorous...
http://www.googlefight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=zaino&q2=zymol&B1=Make+ a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us

That's funny! I did a compare of "nsx" vs. "corvette", and the vette won. Then I tried "acura" vs. "chevy", and chevy won. Finally I compared "Honda" vs. "GM" and Honda won -- WOOHOO!

[JaguarXJ6]

I'm curious to see how perma-finish emulates a clearcoat. Thats a long time and a lot of abuse to take. If it truly is the new wave of protectants and is the best thing on the market, what will it take to a) strip it if necessary or b) prepare the surface so its "perfect" to accept the perma-finish treatment?

Like leather, etc. paint needs moisturizers from time to time. Does the perma-finish act as a total barrier, kind of like the product that the NSX leather interior is coated in? That's bad news.

As they say, its all in the prep work. Perma-finish sounds like its slapping on another layer (or something similiar to) of clear coat as if that's all that's necessary to keep your paint in shape for x years. I don't buy it.