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Thread: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

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    Charter Platinum nsxsupra's Avatar
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    Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Magazine test of various brands of motor oil. Mobil 1 did very poorly.

    Motor oil test
    Last edited by nsxsupra; 08-12-2006 at 00:52.

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    Charter Supporter KooLaid's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    too much crap to click through. Would you kindly it down into simpler words for me please? So how ranked what when, etc, etc?

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    Charter Platinum nsxsupra's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by KooLaid
    too much crap to click through. Would you kindly it down into simpler words for me please? So how ranked what when, etc, etc?
    No problem at all, I have downloaded and uploaded the file to another host. It contain the entire article, pictures.

    Motor Oil test

    Its a test of 18 different brands of motor oil. The most surprising part is how poorly the Mobil 1 performed. It shown a lot of wear in the test compare to other brands of motor oil.

    The idea is to demonstrate the long term wear in short period of time. They did mention that the engine bearing have much larger surface area then their test so the wear characteristic will not be anywhere as severe.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    Review of Mobil 1:
    The results truly speak for themselves in the case of Mobil 1. I have to say that we were truly astounded by them as well. It was out-performed by oils half the price. It took only 2lb to break through the oil film on the race, with the test leaving an 8mm scar on the test bearing and slight scorch marks from the heat caused by metal on metal friction. After seeing so much advertising over the years for this lubricant, we were extremely surprised by the results and are sure you will be, too.

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    Charter Gold BD's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Ouch, I have been using the ELF oil. I felt the engine was smoother over the regular oil the dealership was using.. But... It was rated poorly like Mobile 1. It will be nice to see 5w-30 and 10w-30 too, since that is what I use in my car.

    Power of advertising...

    I think I should try Royal Purple next time since it is easier to find than other top rated oils.

    Thanks for the post....
    2003 NSX -R Wannabe Berlina Black/Red Interior #126
    2008 Honda S2000 CR Berlina Black #160

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    Charter Platinum nsxsupra's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Vancehu
    Ouch, I have been using the ELF oil. I felt the engine was smoother over the regular oil the dealership was using.. But... It was rated poorly like Mobile 1. It will be nice to see 5w-30 and 10w-30 too, since that is what I use in my car.
    Hey Vance,
    Tried to stop by this week but had the monster wisdom tooth removed, no hookah allowed, 3 down, another big one to go

    I think the results are over exaggerated, but still surprising. I started using Royal Purple last year, since it is barely a little more expensive than Mobil 1, and have since use Royal Purple on all of our cars including family members cars.

    I posted a review in the past, the quieter noise is probably just in my mind, but the lower EGT during highway cruising speed is real:
    http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showp...53&postcount=4

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    NSXPrime Champion pbassjo's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Nice post.


    www.vincesautobodyworks.com

    NSXCA Member # 713
    "Supercharged for For World Peace" (M. Basch)

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    Registered User gun_200's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    wow great article where you get that one?

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    Charter Silver VBNSX's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    do you think the fact that they used various weights of oil that the results may be skewed?



    not to be a stickler but they spelled oxidation wrong in the review for Royal Purple. I don't know... I'm just thinking that this test may be biased that's all.

    x
    Last edited by VBNSX; 08-12-2006 at 05:55.
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    I just opened the article, and those little pieces of metal.... Yeah, thats the same test that 'prolong' used to prove you don't need oil. lol. They got sued I believe.

    This is probably the best place to get REAL data on different oils. It's not biased(data is submitted via individual users):
    http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi

    From my own research a few years ago on my Type-R(high revving honda engine), Mobile 1 was the best, Redline was the worst(by FAR).

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    I use Blackstone Labs to test my oil - pretty much on a regular basis. So far, with 42K miles on the car, I have no problems with Mobil 1 10-30W and I do track the car.

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    Registered User jond's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Heres my post where I have 3 Mobile1 samples, and 1 redline sample. You can see where redline has 2x-3x more wear. I never tested Royal Purple, but wouldn't be supprised if it's simular to redline. After redline produced about 10,000 miles of wear in only 3,000 miles, I was done.

    3x more wear of Aluminum(Pistons, bearings, cases)
    2x more wear of chromium(Rings)
    3x more wear of copper(copper bushings, bearings)

    http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/...c;f=3;t=000302

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    Charter Silver nsxtasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VBNSX
    do you think the fact that they used various weights of oil that the results may be skewed?
    Yes, I do.

    It's also true that some oil manufacturers use different formulations in different markets, so an oil as it is sold in Australia, where this test was performed, may or may not be the same composition as the oil labeled the same is sold in North America or Europe.

    It's also true that they didn't test how the oils perform when they are hot, which is where synthetics are most advantageous.

    < shrug >
    NSX. Spread the word.

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    For what it's worth, Wal-Mart sells 5 quart jugs of Quaker State Q Synthetic for under $9.00.

    If you change your oil and filter every 3000 miles, it really doesn't matter what the hell you use.
    Charlotte. The world's most driven NSX in the world. SoS 3.5L TT, 666RWHP, 319,066 miles.

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh
    For what it's worth, Wal-Mart sells 5 quart jugs of Quaker State Q Synthetic for under $9.00.
    nine bucks for 5 quarts of synthetic? I can barely get 5 quarts of regular oil for that price. WOW!
    "It's not how fast you drive, but how good you drive fast." Ayrton Senna

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    For the most part you are right Hugh. In fact even 5000 miles or 6 mos will work for many.

    However, if you are driving hard, or on the track, you want an oil that has a higher breakdown threshold. Mobil 1 offers such an option albeit not the only one. Just like brake fluids, a generic DOT 4 would suffice but many opt for ATE, Motul or even Castrol SRF to make sure they don't boil them.

    Edit: Independent testing may or may not confirm this, but here is one measure. The flash points for 10-30W based on manufacturer's websites are:

    Mobil 1: 435F
    Asmoil: 475F
    Royal Purple >400F
    Red Line: 480F
    Valvoline Synpower: 482F
    Castrol Syntec - they don't provide flash point
    Penzoil Platinum Synthetic: 385F
    Q Advanced Full Synthetic: 437F


    Now I know why Shad stocks Valvoline and RedLine ;-)
    Last edited by Hrant; 08-12-2006 at 19:53.

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrant
    For the most part you are right Hugh. In fact even 5000 miles or 6 mos will work for many.

    However, if you are driving hard, or on the track, you want an oil that has a higher breakdown threshold. Mobil 1 offers such an option albeit not the only one.
    If I know I'm going to be pushing the car as in an HPDE weekend or a trip to the Dragon, I run Amsoil. In fact, I always run Amsoil. I just noticed the Quaker State last night on one of my 3 A.M. Super Center grocery shopping trips.
    Charlotte. The world's most driven NSX in the world. SoS 3.5L TT, 666RWHP, 319,066 miles.

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    Charter Silver nsxtasy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugh
    For what it's worth, Wal-Mart sells 5 quart jugs of Quaker State Q Synthetic for under $9.00.
    That's still not as good as the deal Pep Boys had on Pennzoil Platinum synthetic last month. $4.49 per quart with coupon, plus a $15 rebate from Pep Boys on up to six quarts, plus a $15 rebate from Pennzoil on six quarts. Which means (not counting sales tax and the postage to mail in the rebate slips) they were giving away $3 along with six free quarts of synthetic.
    NSX. Spread the word.

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    Registered User Veleno's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    What do you mean by "flash point?"

    Since there are other oils that have a higher flash point than Mobil 1, does that mean they are better? Or do they just have a higher flash point?

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Actually, I found a great source to answer your question. See here, especially at 3-3:

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...point+for+oils

    And check this out, I copied the table below: http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/AUTO/F_oil_facts.html

    Based on the numbers the following seem to be the best in the lot for 10-30W when you compare the importance of the viscosity index with the flash point together: the new Amsoil, followed by Mobil 1 with a tie with RedLine, then Valvoline Synpower with Unocal Super.

    5. Viscosity Index
    Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown.

    6. Flash Point
    Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F.

    Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    7. The Data
    Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available

    Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc
    ====================== === ===== ==== ==== =====
    20W-50
    AMSOIL (old) 136 482 -38 <.5 ---
    AMSOIL (new) 157 507 -44 --- ---
    Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12
    Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11
    Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 ---
    Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16
    Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .90 ---
    Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .90 ---
    Red Line 150 503 -49 --- ---
    Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15
    Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15
    Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13
    Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12
    Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11
    Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13
    Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20
    Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12

    20W-40
    AMSOIL 124 500 -49 --- ---
    Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12
    Quaker State 121 415 -15 .90 ---

    15W-50
    Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11
    Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- ---
    Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15
    Red Line 152 503 -49 --- ---

    5W-50
    Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10
    Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- ---
    Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- ---

    5W-40
    Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 ---

    15W-40
    AMSOIL (old) 135 460 -38 <.5 ---
    AMSOIL (new) 164 462 -49 --- ---
    Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14
    Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 ---
    Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .90 .14
    Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13
    Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16
    Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15
    Red Line 149 495 -40 --- ---
    Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13
    Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15
    Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13

    10W-30
    AMSOIL (old) 142 480 -70 <.5 ---
    AMSOIL (new) 162 520 -76 --- ---
    Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12
    Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11
    Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11
    Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13
    Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 ---
    Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16
    Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- ---
    Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 ---
    Quaker State 156 410 -30 .90 ---
    Red Line 139 475 -40 --- ---
    Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .90 .12
    Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13
    Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15
    Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- ---
    Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12
    Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11
    Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13
    Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20
    Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12

    5W-30
    AMSOIL (old) 168 480 -76 <.5 ---
    AMSOIL (new) 186 464 -76 --- ---
    Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12
    Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11
    Chevron Supreme Synt. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12
    Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11
    Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 ---
    Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- ---
    Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1
    Quaker State 165 405 -35 .90 ---
    Red Line 151 455 -49 --- ---
    Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .90 .12
    Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12
    Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11
    Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13
    Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12


    All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are "good enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake.
    The synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justified in your application.

    The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers (typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000 miles) are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics.

    7.1) Sulfated ash
    Sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with a low ash content.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    7.2) Zinc
    Zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti-wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling.
    Last edited by Hrant; 08-12-2006 at 20:51.

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Thanks Hrant, I understand now. I guess Mobil 1 isn't bad afterall

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    Charter Platinum nsxsupra's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by gun_200
    wow great article where you get that one?
    You are the man


    ----------
    Just curious, what does flashpoint have anything to do with lubrication and lower temperature normal street driving conditions? What flashpoint is considered adequate?

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    Charter Platinum AU_NSX's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by nsxsupra
    Magazine test of various brands of motor oil. Mobil 1 did very poorly.

    Motor oil test
    Nice post!

    But what were you doing reading a commodore magazine??? I don't even glance at the cover as there is nothing (usually) of interest in that "bogan" magazine...

    Thanks though for putting yourself through the shame of actually having to purchase it! What sort of look did you get from the shop assistant? They did put it in a brown paper bag for you didn't they?
    1998 NSX - Stock
    1991 NSX TT - Not so stock...

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    Charter Platinum nsxsupra's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by AU_NSX
    Thanks though for putting yourself through the shame of actually having to purchase it! What sort of look did you get from the shop assistant? They did put it in a brown paper bag for you didn't they?


    Thankfully I didn't had to go that far, I got it from here

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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by AU_NSX
    Nice post!

    Thanks though for putting yourself through the shame of actually having to purchase it! What sort of look did you get from the shop assistant? They did put it in a brown paper bag for you didn't they?
    haha.... bogan yes, paid for the magazine no, shamefully scanned the only article of interest yes

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    Charter Platinum AU_NSX's Avatar
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    Re: Motor oil test, shocking results Mobil 1, Redline, Royal Purple, etc

    Quote Originally Posted by gun_200
    haha.... bogan yes, paid for the magazine no, shamefully scanned the only article of interest yes


    Good post actually! Thanks for that!

    I forget what the Yanks call the Commodore... It is the Chevrolet Lumina here in the Middle East...

    I wonder if this thread will be the trigger for "Oil Wars II"
    1998 NSX - Stock
    1991 NSX TT - Not so stock...

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