Yes, I am a noob.:frown: If someone can explain cowl shake, I would appreciate that. I was just reading about the sway bars and such and how it would reduce cowl shake when the top is off. Thanks guys.
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Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
- Thread starter Maximus_NSX
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Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
cowl shake is the shaking/vibration you feel in the steering column, typically when going over rough turrain or bumps. . It results from the body twisting. It is obviously more prevalent in verts and t-tops since the chassis is generally less rigid. Strut brace etc help reduce this by stiffening the chassis (reducing flex).
cowl shake is the shaking/vibration you feel in the steering column, typically when going over rough turrain or bumps. . It results from the body twisting. It is obviously more prevalent in verts and t-tops since the chassis is generally less rigid. Strut brace etc help reduce this by stiffening the chassis (reducing flex).
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
This is a phrase that normally applies to convertibles, or in our case, a 'T' model.
In a nutshell. It is the sensation you feel/see when you are going over uneven surfaces of the road. The loss of the roof structure will cause the body of the car to literally flex and it is most noticeable in the cowl, which is the area of the car at the base of the windshield.
I'm sure others will chime in with a more detailed answer but that is the why I interpret it.
This is a phrase that normally applies to convertibles, or in our case, a 'T' model.
In a nutshell. It is the sensation you feel/see when you are going over uneven surfaces of the road. The loss of the roof structure will cause the body of the car to literally flex and it is most noticeable in the cowl, which is the area of the car at the base of the windshield.
I'm sure others will chime in with a more detailed answer but that is the why I interpret it.
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
The roof of a car is an essential part that makes the chassis rigid. Rigidity in a chassis is highly desirable because it leads to less noise, better handling, better crash performance, among other things. Manufacturers are always trying to make the chassis of the car more rigid with less flex.
When a roof is chopped off in a Targa or convertible, it takes away one of the key components of chassis rigidity. You experience this in the NSX when the top is off and you go over bumps or in hard corners and you can hear little creaks and literraly see the windsheild/hood area "bounce". With the Targa on when going over bumps you can sometimes hear a squeaking from the weather seals as they rub against each other because the chassis is twisting.
What you probably read was the comments that the NSX-R bars add to chassis rigidity. These two bars are in specific locations that are supposed to help with this. Some, like myself, claim/claimed that they seem to help with chassis flex on the car having its targa roof off. How much it helps is debatable, but at least it does not hurt. That flex is what people talk about when they say cowl shake. Some cars are very bad with this.
I have a suspicion that the R bars are more designed for a coupe and specifically the R model because in order to save weight, they may have thinned some parts on the car that would lead to more flex (thinner partition glass and CF hood for example)... and so the engineers came up with the chassis bars as a solution. They do seem to go into areas that tie together very important parts of the car. Since they are not too expensive and don't seem to hurt anything, I would call them a good mod.
The roof of a car is an essential part that makes the chassis rigid. Rigidity in a chassis is highly desirable because it leads to less noise, better handling, better crash performance, among other things. Manufacturers are always trying to make the chassis of the car more rigid with less flex.
When a roof is chopped off in a Targa or convertible, it takes away one of the key components of chassis rigidity. You experience this in the NSX when the top is off and you go over bumps or in hard corners and you can hear little creaks and literraly see the windsheild/hood area "bounce". With the Targa on when going over bumps you can sometimes hear a squeaking from the weather seals as they rub against each other because the chassis is twisting.
What you probably read was the comments that the NSX-R bars add to chassis rigidity. These two bars are in specific locations that are supposed to help with this. Some, like myself, claim/claimed that they seem to help with chassis flex on the car having its targa roof off. How much it helps is debatable, but at least it does not hurt. That flex is what people talk about when they say cowl shake. Some cars are very bad with this.
I have a suspicion that the R bars are more designed for a coupe and specifically the R model because in order to save weight, they may have thinned some parts on the car that would lead to more flex (thinner partition glass and CF hood for example)... and so the engineers came up with the chassis bars as a solution. They do seem to go into areas that tie together very important parts of the car. Since they are not too expensive and don't seem to hurt anything, I would call them a good mod.
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
Great responses! Thanks for the lesson guys. Looks like I need to look into the various type r bars. I'm going to drive the car without the roof to see if I experience the shake.
Great responses! Thanks for the lesson guys. Looks like I need to look into the various type r bars. I'm going to drive the car without the roof to see if I experience the shake.
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
The best do it yourself experiment to understand the concept of cowl shake or body rigidity, is to take the cardboard tube from the center of a roll of paper towels or toilet paper and then gently try to twist the tube. You will find it to be quite rigid. Then take a razor blade and cut a hole in the tube, like the hole that the removable roof of your car creates on the body. And then try twisting the roll and you find that the tube has lost its rigidity.
The NSX was one of the most rigid cars at the time of it's introduction. The Targa option in 1995 compromised this rigidity somewhat. but even today, the rigidity of the NSX coupe is superior to most road cars.
Tom
The best do it yourself experiment to understand the concept of cowl shake or body rigidity, is to take the cardboard tube from the center of a roll of paper towels or toilet paper and then gently try to twist the tube. You will find it to be quite rigid. Then take a razor blade and cut a hole in the tube, like the hole that the removable roof of your car creates on the body. And then try twisting the roll and you find that the tube has lost its rigidity.
The NSX was one of the most rigid cars at the time of it's introduction. The Targa option in 1995 compromised this rigidity somewhat. but even today, the rigidity of the NSX coupe is superior to most road cars.
Tom
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
Why use words when you can use a picture:
Why use words when you can use a picture:
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
LOL!
In a targa car with the roof off, cowl shake is very obvious when you turn with the outside wheels weighted.
I was able to get rid of it 100% with the NSXR chassis bars, sways (not sure they have a roll), and I think that the SOS harness bar even helped.
It may not be obvious what it is, but if you have a targa, it is VERY easy to feel.
LOL!
In a targa car with the roof off, cowl shake is very obvious when you turn with the outside wheels weighted.
I was able to get rid of it 100% with the NSXR chassis bars, sways (not sure they have a roll), and I think that the SOS harness bar even helped.
It may not be obvious what it is, but if you have a targa, it is VERY easy to feel.
Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
Hehe, "cow shake", I like it!
Hehe, "cow shake", I like it!
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Re: Can somone please explain "cowl shake" to me in easy to understand terms?
On our honeymoon, we rented a Sebring convertible to lamp around Hawaii in. Cowl shake was so bad I was starting to wonder if the windshield might fall out of it's frame . As for NSX's, having owned a coupe and a T, IMO there is a very significant difference in rigidity, lucky for us Honda has such an affordable solution with the R bars.
Jon
On our honeymoon, we rented a Sebring convertible to lamp around Hawaii in. Cowl shake was so bad I was starting to wonder if the windshield might fall out of it's frame
. As for NSX's, having owned a coupe and a T, IMO there is a very significant difference in rigidity, lucky for us Honda has such an affordable solution with the R bars.Jon
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