Track alignment, opinions please

I took my ’91 in for an alignment yesterday. I just installed the nsx-r suspension, and I have the RM rear sway bar, stock front sway bar, and both front nsx-r chassis bars. The car is 50/50 street/track. I track the car fairly often, and usually drive on azenis. I gave the following specs to the tech, emphasizing that toe was most important to me, as I do not have any camber correction hardware on the car.

Front:
caster 8 or more degrees
camber -1.5 degrees each side
toe -3.5mm total

Rear:
camber -2.1 degrees each side
toe +3mm total


And I got the following results:

Front:
caster 8.58 degrees
camber -1.1 degrees(L), -1.5 degrees (R)
toe -1.7mm(L), -1.6mm(R)

Rear:
camber -1.9 degrees(L), -1.7 degrees(R)
toe +2.0mm(L), +1.1mm(R)

I’m not ecstatic about the front camber imbalance, and I’m unhappy with the rear toe specs.

I’m also not happy that the steering wheel is slightly cocked to the left. The tech and the service manager explained that due to the overall alignment of the front and back, there’s an unnatural thrust angle that is preventing them from alignment the steering wheel. Is there any credence to their theory about the steering wheel not lining up, or am I justified in being dissatisfied?

Batoutahell said:

And I got the following results:

Front:

toe -1.7mm(L), -1.6mm(R)

I’m also not happy that the steering wheel is slightly cocked to the left. The tech and the service manager explained that due to the overall alignment of the front and back, there’s an unnatural thrust angle that is preventing them from alignment the steering wheel. Is there any credence to their theory about the steering wheel not lining up, or am I justified in being dissatisfied?

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I have never heard this 'bullshit'.

You can correct this yourself if the steering wheel is only a little off to the left. You can give the left wheel a little more toe out. Or the right wheel a little more toe in. Or both half of what you should do on one wheel (preferrable). Like max a quarter of a turn in (shorten left tie rod) for the left wheel, or turn out (lenghten right tie rod) for the right wheel for a start. Or half of that for both wheels. Stay within this margin. If the steering wheel goes off to the right, go back to the initial settings and give it little less turn in (left wheel). You don't have to worry about to much being off of the alignment (out of specs) if you don't go further than that quarter turn if you do one wheel (left) or half of that for both wheels.

Don't forget to mark your basic settings!

Second that...

I am running a little more camber front and back, but similar toe. My chassis guy is a perfectionist as he is the chassis engineer for a ALMS team. After corner balance and alignment he took the car for a test drive. Came back and said the wheel was just a little off center, adjusted it and went back for another test drive. He won't release the car until its perfect. He takes pride in his work.

Apparently, your guys don't want to bother.

Gerard van Santen said:

I have never heard this 'bullshit'.

You can correct this yourself if the steering wheel is only a little off to the left. You can give the left wheel a little more toe out. Or the right wheel a little more toe in. Or both half of what you should do on one wheel (preferrable). Like max a quarter of a turn in (shorten left tie rod) for the left wheel, or turn out (lenghten right tie rod) for the right wheel for a start. Or half of that for both wheels. Stay within this margin. If the steering wheel goes off to the right, go back to the initial settings and give it little less turn in (left wheel). You don't have to worry about to much being off of the alignment (out of specs) if you don't go further than that quarter turn if you do one wheel (left) or half of that for both wheels.

Don't forget to mark your basic settings!

Click to expand...

I'll mark my initial settings and give the "half and half" a try. If I make the exact same adjustment to both tie rods (shorten the left, lengthen the right), the front toe settings will stay the same, right?

Batoutahell said:

I'll mark my initial settings and give the "half and half" a try. If I make the exact same adjustment to both tie rods (shorten the left, lengthen the right), the front toe settings will stay the same, right?

Click to expand...

YES

Batoutahell said:

Front:
caster 8.58 degrees
camber -1.1 degrees(L), -1.5 degrees (R)
toe -1.7mm(L), -1.6mm(R)

Rear:
camber -1.9 degrees(L), -1.7 degrees(R)
toe +2.0mm(L), +1.1mm(R)

I’m not ecstatic about the front camber imbalance, and I’m unhappy with the rear toe specs.

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I assume that by toe -1.7mm and -1.6mm you mean toe-OUT for the fronts and with +2.0mm and +1.1mm for the rear you mean toen-IN.
In that case, the front toe seems to be ok, but your car could probably use a little more toe-IN on the rear, especially since you track it a lot. I think that 2.0 degrees of negative camber would be ok.

FWIW, my NSX sees a lot of track use. I keep it within the recommended alignment settings, including the 6 mm rear toe originally recommended by Acura before they changed the specs. I keep the front camber towards the most negative end of the recommended range.

The first thing that I see is that the camber isn't even in front. This will cause a pull to one side. To correct for the pull, you have to steer the other way - and that may be what you see in your steering wheel being off.

I'd probably request them to get the camber at least even in front, then see what you think of the steering wheel position.

If your car tracks straight as is, then disregard what I said. You can adjust the steering wheel to get it straight as others have said.

l8apex32 said:

The first thing that I see is that the camber isn't even in front. This will cause a pull to one side. To correct for the pull, you have to steer the other way - and that may be what you see in your steering wheel being off.

I'd probably request them to get the camber at least even in front, then see what you think of the steering wheel position.

If your car tracks straight as is, then disregard what I said. You can adjust the steering wheel to get it straight as others have said.

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Camber is within tolerance. This won't cause a pull to one side. From the numbers as shown the steering wheel will not be off position. The off position is the result of not adjust the tie rods correctly.

Toe is the issue here. Mostly you see front toe numbers for left and right separately. This is not the way you must approach alignment for the front wheels. As soon the car moves forward, toe will be left and right the same. So total toe is what is important. From there you adjust the steering wheel with the tie rods. It is not said that if the steering wheel is off position that the car will pull to one side. If the car puls to one side, it is most of the time because there is an oneven toe in the rear which is out of manufacture tolerance.

Just to clarify and update a bit. The car did not pull to either side after I got it aligned, the only problem was the off-center steering wheel. The front toe was fine, but the tech could have done a better job centering the steering wheel. I was planning to give each tie rod a quarter turn to center the steering wheel myself, but I ran into good fortune last weekend.

I had the car at another shop for my bi-annual "safety inspection," and the mechanic offered to adjust my alignment for next to no charge. The car was already on their alignment rack, as it would not fit on their regular lift. He centered my steering wheel while still keeping the toe specs. He also evened out my camber settings left to right. Unfortunately he forgot to print the results before taking the car off the rack, but I did see the results on the computer. Pretty good service from a chain muffler shop.

Where did they say that they couldn't adjust the steering wheel? was it the same place/dealer that wanted me to buy another comptech supercharger?:smile:

Batoutahell said:

Just to clarify and update a bit. The car did not pull to either side after I got it aligned, the only problem was the off-center steering wheel. The front toe was fine, but the tech could have done a better job centering the steering wheel. I was planning to give each tie rod a quarter turn to center the steering wheel myself, but I ran into good fortune last weekend.

I had the car at another shop for my bi-annual "safety inspection," and the mechanic offered to adjust my alignment for next to no charge. The car was already on their alignment rack, as it would not fit on their regular lift. He centered my steering wheel while still keeping the toe specs. He also evened out my camber settings left to right. Unfortunately he forgot to print the results before taking the car off the rack, but I did see the results on the computer. Pretty good service from a chain muffler shop.

Click to expand...

They didn't center the stearing wheel. A good shop would have fixed this for you when you brought it to there attention. The should not have given it to you this way in the first place.

The camber being off side to side is not ideal.

The second shop may be a good one... At least this machanic... I would never go back to the first shop.