View Full Version : NSXPO brake pad question and more..
NetViper
10-13-2002, 22:24
I have no idea how much brake pad life is left on this car as I have never changed them. ( I have only had it 4 months).
According to the NSXPO info sheet, we are probably going to need new brake pads to do the event all 3 days. Should I just order some now? Should I get OEM or what is best? Is this a good time to upgrade to an aftermarket pad? (I have 96 wheels and tires BTW). And what about cost? Will there be special deals at NSXPO?
I am also not sure if i will need new tires. How can I tell? If I check the tread depth, how will I know if these tires will last the entire event? (they are yoko's). The guy at the Goodyear dealership told me my right rear was looking low, but then he said I would probably only get another 10K out of it. I guess he didn't know NSX tires usually don't even last that long.
Finally, what brake fluid should I get put in?
Am I missing anything? This trip just keeps getting more expensive! http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
[This message has been edited by NetViper (edited 13 October 2002).]
Originally posted by NetViper:
I have no idea how much brake pad life is left on this car as I have never changed them. ( I have only had it 4 months).
Click here (http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/DIY/brakepads.htm) to learn how to check their thickness. If you still have 50 percent of the pad thickness, you will probably be fine. Bring an extra set; you can always use them.
Originally posted by NetViper:
Should I get OEM or what is best? Is this a good time to upgrade to an aftermarket pad? (I have 96 wheels and tires BTW).
I like the street/track pads available from RM Racing (http://www.rmnsx.com).
Originally posted by NetViper:
I am also not sure if i will need new tires. How can I tell? If I check the tread depth, how will I know if these tires will last the entire event?
Unless your tires are getting close to showing the treadwear indicator bars, you should be fine and your tires should last the entire event. (This would not be true of anyone driving a much longer distance to the event than you are.)
The "Lincoln penny test" (click here (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/general/replacewhen.htm)) will tell you when you are at 2/32" tread, same as when the treadwear indicator bars are flat across the tread.
Originally posted by NetViper:
Finally, what brake fluid should I get put in?
Motul RBF 600.
Originally posted by NetViper:
Am I missing anything? This trip just keeps getting more expensive! http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
Brake pads are really the only thing you will use up dramatically faster on the track. You would need to change your brake fluid periodically anyway, and tires don't wear out in one track event (or even several).
NetViper
10-14-2002, 00:44
Should I do both front and back brake pads or just the front?
NetViper,
Great questions, all with plenty of answers (opinions)...Here are a few.
Need for brakes:
The recommendation for an full (or an extra) set of pads is primarily for one reason;
"Texas Motor Speedway...This is the track that was "too fast" for CART, and we will be running the full oval."
Which brakes to consider:
Personal opinions vary here, but depending on the kind of driving you do, I'd suggest you try a more agressive pad than the existing OEM set. It can make a HUGE difference in your track experience.
I use one set for the street and another for the track.
One of the event Sponsors is Cobalt Friction http://www.cobaltfriction.com (i.e. Andie Lin).
Those who have ever talked with him know the wealth of knowledge that he brings to the NSX community. If you have a question about brakes, he is the best source, period...Give him a call.
Prices:
Here is one example of many:
/prod-cat/brake_pads_axxis.htm#ACURA
Need to Pre order:
Only if you have known specific needs.
...The best plan is to contact Susan Tableman with Goodson Acura (972)554-0505 and she will take care of everything (if she hasn't already). I know there will be a variety of pads available and track side tech support on site. Very cool!
...This is going to be great!
Chris
Originally posted by NetViper:
Should I do both front and back brake pads or just the front?
Same deal, front or rear. If you've got plenty of pad material (well over 50 percent), then leave them alone; if you don't, then change them.
NetViper
10-14-2002, 10:23
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
[B] Penny TestB]
Ken,
I did the penny test. I can see Lincolns full head in the middle of the tires, but not on either side. I am guessing it is time to get some more tires.
Probably.
You should learn to check the treadwear indicator bars. On every street tire made (and even some track tires), there are bars going across the width of the tread. The bars are spaced maybe 6-8 inches apart as you make your way around the circumference of the tire. Each bar is 1/4" to 1/2" wide. These bars are exactly 2/32" shallower in tread depth than the rest of the tread. When the tread is worn down to only 2/32" deep, the bars appear flat straight across the tire, as though there's no tread for that 1/4-1/2" strip. And you normally want to replace your tires when they're at 2/32" deep. Look closely at your tires and you'll see the tread bars.
Rear tires usually (not always, but usually) wear fairly evenly across the tread, assuming that you keep them properly inflated. If you're not doing a lot of hard cornering, front tires often wear much faster on the inside edge of the tread than the rest of the tread.
erobbins
10-15-2002, 17:42
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Same deal, front or rear. If you've got plenty of pad material (well over 50 percent), then leave them alone; if you don't, then change them.
No, no, no. Absolutely not. Please refer to the NSXPO track event information. A brand new set of OEM pads (which last longer than performance pads) *may* get you through all three days, depending on how aggressive you are with your brakes. I can tell you that performance pads (which wear faster than OEM) will likely get you through 2 days at MSR (if there is a good deal more than 50% left), but will NOT get you through TMS. Period.
I can put a brand new set of Porterfield R4S pads on my car and the front brakes will be completely gone after 3-4 track sessions at TMS. Take the advice of people who have driven that track multiple times and have gone through this headache before.
Our recommendation is this: Everyone should put BRAND NEW pads (performance, OEM or otherwise) on their car before coming to NSXPO if they are participating in the track events. IN ADDITION - bring a spare set of front pads (at a minimum), preferably rear pads also. This is money that won't go to waste - you are going to need the pads someday anyway.
EDR
NetViper
10-15-2002, 18:23
I just ordered the RM racing pads, so I will be ready... but they better last more than 3 days!
[QUOTE]Originally posted by erobbins:
[B] No, no, no. Absolutely not. Please refer to the NSXPO track event information. A brand new set of OEM pads (which last longer than performance pads) *may* get you through all three days, depending on how aggressive you are with your brakes. I can tell you that performance pads (which wear faster than OEM) will likely get you through 2 days at MSR (if there is a good deal more than 50% left), but will NOT get you through TMS. Period.
snip>>
I say given this precondition or premise set forth for this tracking experience .... http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/eek.gif .... then the registration fee should include a set of free pads ......... do I hear a second ......... http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Just kidding no flames please ..... http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/wink.gif
Frankly this is a great opportunity to hit the manufacturers/vendors of brake pads, sponsors, ... for great bargains as well as bragging rights with a show and tell .....
[This message has been edited by Hrant (edited 15 October 2002).]
I haven't driven these tracks before, so I'll defer to Eric regarding how long the pads will last. I've driven 18 different tracks, and I have yet to find one where my pads last less than six track days typically averaging 75 miles per day. And I'm not exactly easy on the equipment. Perhaps these tracks are different, and perhaps we will get a lot more track time each day than in most other events.
Obviously, it doesn't hurt anything to change to new pads. If the old ones had more than 3 mm of pad material, just save them; you can always switch them back on afterwards for street use.
Also, if you are driving on brand new pads, or any pad which has not been tracked or similarly broken in, be aware of "green pad syndrome". Most pads will fade dramatically the first time they get really hot, and perhaps the second time, too. After that, they are broken in and they should not fade at all. You can break them in on the highway on the way to the event by doing a bunch of really hard stops (say, 80-30 mph) at intervals of a few miles to let them cool down in between.
Originally posted by erobbins:
OEM pads (which last longer than performance pads)
I have not found this to be true. I have averaged roughly 500 actual track miles with the OEM front pads, and about the same with the RM Racing front pads. I average about 700 actual track miles on either type of rear pads.
If you start with plenty of pad material, but notice your pads wearing at an alarming rate, you can always just sandbag it down the fastest straight and let people pass you. The turns are still just as fun and you will greatly conserve your pads. No need to totally ruin your track event over it. Just my opinion.
It seems really unlikely to me that a first-timer will burn through a full set of pads, but like Ken I have never been to these tracks before so I guess anything is possible.
Or you could just get a really big brake kit and not have to worry about it. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by Lud (edited 15 October 2002).]
5inchfatlip
10-15-2002, 19:12
Hey- which pads offer better than stock performance, but dont dust too much...
I have Porterfields right now, they dust like Crazy!
no offense to any porterfield users but my experience with the r4s is similar- all gone in one day at the glen which is tough on brakes.The porterfields in my mind are fragile and are not up to rigorous track work.RM last longer.Bring an extra set of somthing just in case.There will be mechanics on hand should changes be nessecary.
Originally posted by docjohn:
The porterfields in my mind are fragile and are not up to rigorous track work.
I agree. I had one set of Porterfield R4S where the metal backing plate softened and folded around the piston. Not good.
I believe CT sells the R4S as their "Hot Street" pad and the R4 for their competition/track pad.
I have done the RM (great step up from OEM), Porterfield r4 (Squeeky and short lived!) and am currently running Carbotech Panther Plus....Great performance on the track while still quiet enough to run on the street.
My next set will be Cobalt Friction...I am confident Andie has packed all the lessons learned into his new product line and they should be sweet.
ncdogdoc
10-16-2002, 00:14
I will have to see this course to believe it eats pads that quickly. I have never used Porterfields. Stock pads last forever. I am on my first set of Carbotech Panther plus pads, have 7 track events on them including VIR 4 times and Road Atlanta once, and have had to replace rotors due to wear, but still have much usable pad left. I typically have to bleed after each day due to boiling fluid and will many times have ABS kicking in trying to get as close to threshold braking as possible (or over as the ABS tells you!). These pads are phenomenal. Probably a little rough for street use, but great for high heat track events. JMHO.
------------------
Gary Yates
1995 Red/Tan
the nsxnut
10-16-2002, 04:03
Agree on the Carbotech Panther plus. I have used them hard on many different tracks, with great results, both in wear and stopping power. I got 8 track days/ about 4000 miles out of my last set.
I have consumed a brand new set of OEM pads in 5 hours at Sebring... fresh to start the day, gone by 2pm. Yes, it can be done... that was also the last set of OEM pads I've used...
------------------
Mark H.,Atlanta
nsxnut@hotmail.com
'91, Sebring Silver, BBSC and more...
Originally posted by 5inchfatlip:
Hey- which pads offer better than stock performance, but dont dust too much...
I have Porterfields right now, they dust like Crazy!
If your looking for pads that do not dust stay with the stockers I've used Poterfields and Carbotechs and they dust like crazy.
Steven 91 Blk/Ivory
erobbins
10-16-2002, 20:36
Originally posted by Lud:
If you start with plenty of pad material, but notice your pads wearing at an alarming rate, you can always just sandbag it down the fastest straight and let people pass you.
Or you can buy a set of pads from Goodson Acura who will be on site at the event and have them install the pads FOR FREE between your run sessions!
Goodson will have both OEM and Cobalt Friction pads on hand.
EDR
Nsx Service Girl
10-17-2002, 15:30
Brakes--Of course I've OEM's in stock and available. Cobalt Friction will be stocking us with their Axxis Ultimate--entry level track, and with their Ferodo DS3000--race compound. If I don't have their other racing brakes, Dali will. Comptech has already provided us with Brembo Indy, Competition, and Hot Street pads as well as the SS brake lines.
Brake Fluid-- Honda and ATE will be available.
Tires--In stock, Yokohamas, Michelin Pilots, and Kumhos (various sizes, thanks to AaronR).
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