View Full Version : replacement tires
Mark Bloome
04-15-2000, 18:22
Help! I am tire nowhere land. I need a pair of rear tires for my 95. After talking to dealers and reading test reports I am as confused as ever.
I do not drive the car very hard, and good ride and quiet are important. Also wet traction and decent wear.
But when I get down to choice confusion abounds.
The Dunlop 9000's got very good ratings from Automobile Mag, but they do not make the 9000 for the front. cost about $250 each.
The Bridgestone's RE71's got good ratings, but also do not make the same tire for the front. These tires cost about $108 each.
Then there is the Pirelli P7000 which the dealer recommends and there are front tires to match but the ratings as to ride and noise are poor. These cost about $245 each.
Next is the Yokohama AVS I which is avialable only for the rears and is supposed to be a good tire. Cost $150 each.
Any ideas out there?
I have Bridgestone S-02s Pole Position on my wife's Mercedes and I love them - great ride, good wet traction and very quiet. They have 15K miles on them and they look like they are going to go another 15K. My '99 T only has 2,800 miles on it so my Yokos still have some tread left. I'm planning to replace them with original Yokos when the rears go and later with S-02s once I need all four of them. I haven't checked on sizes yet so I don't know if they make them for the NSX.
[This message has been edited by dollenz (edited 15 April 2000).]
ChopsJazz
04-15-2000, 20:42
What is the problem with replacing them with OEMs? Remember that the OEM tires were designed specifically for the capabilities of the car. A tire dealer set me up with a set of RE71's and I almost killed myself when I reached their cornering limits, which are nowhere near the limits of the NSX. I brought them back after about 20 miles. I'm very happy with the OEM Yok's. Even at the track at triple digit speeds!
[This message has been edited by ChopsJazz (edited 15 April 2000).]
ChopsJazz, you are right. The original Yokos are certainly the best choice. However, some of us are looking for a little better tread wear, beyond 10K, perhaps? There must be a tire out there (and I don't know which) that gives you great performance (close to stock) with better wear. I'd like to believe it will be the S-O2.
By the way, I like Jazz, old Jazz, I have most of Louis Amstrong stuff - great NSX music. I'm not sure I'll be going to San Mateo to the square but I just might
Mark,
I hate to sound like a broken record on this list, but it is hard to second guess the time and effort taken by the Engineers at Honda (Acura) in crafting the NSX. I think the OEM tires are the best bet. Even if they wear out after only 3,000 or 6,000 miles. If you drive easy as you say you do, then you might get 6,000 - 10,000 out of a set. You can always adjust your alignment to a less radical setting, more toward zero and show improved wear, albeit at the expense of razor crisp handling. You can't have it all.
I was prepared to offer a recommendation for the Pirelli PZero System Asimmetrico tires. They come in 245 40/17 but are not made in the 215 45/16 for the fronts. I suppose you could use the P7000, but I hate them. I used PZeros on a number of my cars and I love them. I am heart broken that they don't make a set to fit the front of the NSX.
For good tips on tires and the best prices around. Don't forget http://www.tirerack.com
------------------
Gordon G. Miller, III
Y2K NSX #51 Yellow/Black
gordon@g3.com http://www.g3.com
Taking my own advice, I surfed over to http://www.tirerack.com and did a search on 215 45/16 looking for MAXIMUM peformance only. It was no surprise to me that the Michelin Pilot Sport tires came up as a choice. I have them on my 2280 lb. '99 Miata S package. And they are great.
Then, I just happened to look down the left column in the product detail to where it said "Tire Test". Well, low and behold, what do I find by a test where the Michelin Pilot Sport, Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Position, and the Pirelli PZERO Asimmetrico are put to the test in both wet and dry. So as not to leave anyone out they do mention the Yokohama AVS Sport, but don't profile it there.
There was no clear winner, each has specific characteristics that are desireable at different times. It does look as if the Bridgestone Potenza S-02 Pole Position fared better than most in the really critical one, but I have not ever used them. Having used both Pilots and PZero, they are both fine tires.
------------------
Gordon G. Miller, III
Y2K NSX #51 Yellow/Black
gordon@g3.com http://www.g3.com
I'm considering what set of tires to purchase next as well. My 1999 NSX-T currently has about 2,400 miles on it. I want a tire that's a bit more practical than the stock OEM Yokohama's (with better wet traction and tire wear).
There's the Dunlop SP8050, which I believe is made specifically for the NSX. I am also considering the SP9000, but they don't have a 215/45ZR16 size for the front. They do have a 225/45ZR16 front--perhaps it would be OK to use those with 255/40ZR17 for the rears?
Is anyone using the SP9000 (or SP8050)? If so, what sizes are you using? Thanks.
- Stephen
[This message has been edited by sas (edited 16 April 2000).]
Tommy Smith
04-18-2000, 16:01
I recently replaced my Yoko's with SP9000's.I immediately noticed a tremendous improvement in ride comfort and quiteness. Wet traction is much improved also. I've not had them on a road course yet, but I did manage a 13.56 ET at the strip with my stock 97T on the second run I had ever made at a drag strip. I couldn't launch at the 3500-4000 RPM's recommended for best times but the tires handled anything below 3000 RPM's well. This last weekend, I made a pretty fast run though the mountains in dry and wet conditions and was very pleased. Not being a trained driver, I appreciate the tire squeal warning when I approach the limits. For the fronts, on the OEM 7 spoke wheels, the 225 X 40 X 16 are the closest choice to OEM. My local dealer sold the fronts for $160 and rears for $210 installed.
Ben Goldfarb has two sets of rears for sale OEM for the 17 inch wheels. He got them with tire certs.
They are brand new and you can email him at ben@goldfarb.com if you're interested. I have no financial interest in the sale... yadda yadda yadda...
Tommy Smith with the Dunlop SP9000s:
1)Did you change the alignmnet specs when you put on the SP9000s?
2) Any traction control problems with the different front OD?
I really like the Pilots on my car. Great traction, good wear and nice ride quality for the performance level. Also, if you get the alignment set with much less negative rear camber you will get more wear. I have the non-compliance rear suspension and have only 1/2 a degree of negative rear camber and got 16k miles out of my last set of rear tires. The car also tracks better at high speed with less camber.
Tommy Smith
04-19-2000, 17:51
To NSXY,
I haven't changed the alignment specs. The OD for the 225 X 40 is almost identical to the 215 X 45 spec. I haven't had any traction control problems at all. Somewhere on the net, I saw a write-up that indicated about 18,000 miles wear on the SP 9000's on the rear with factory specs. Sorry I can't be specific, but I did a lot of reading on the net and magazines before choosing the SP 9000's. I was sold on the longer wear, price, increased ride comfort, squeal warning when approaching the limits, and the small amount of time I'll be spending on the track. I felt that if you are serious about the track, you should use a tire specifically designed for the track (as long as it fit your budget, but I guess if the tires don't fit the budget, should you be serious about the track).
I contacted Ben Goldfarb on the OEM Yokos for the rear (17s). He wanted about $260 each, saying that they are originally $290 each!!!! So, I just called Discount Tire in Solana Beach, CA (858 481-6387)and the salesman (Greg "The Man") said that Discount Tire now has a nationwide sale on Yokos, including the 245/40ZR17 rears for the NSX: price is $201 per rear tire, plus $10.95 for mount and balance.
He also said that Discount Tire has a "lay away" plan, in which you can pay a deposit on the sales price for any tire at anytime, even if you do not need tires now, and pick them up later when you need them. If the price drops below the sales price, you get the lower new price!!
When I told Greg "The Man" that I would spread the word at the NSX Prime web site, he said that he would sell me EOM tires for $195 each!!!!
Sounds like I'm doing business at Discount after work today (no I do not work at Discount tire).
Opps! Correction: my quote of $260(above)on Ben Goldfarb's rear Yoko tires was a typo. He wants $200 each rear tire, plus cost of shipping from LA ($25-50). You get them mounted and balanced somewhere.
Mark Bloome
04-19-2000, 22:44
considering the price at discount tire and that if there is a problem that there will be no selling dealer, Ben's deal is no deal at all. if he gets $300 for the pair he will be doing well.
Originally posted by NSXY:
Opps! Correction: my quote of $260(above)on Ben Goldfarb's rear Yoko tires was a typo. He wants $200 each rear tire, plus cost of shipping from LA ($25-50). You get them mounted and balanced somewhere.
Yesterday I went to Discount Tire and put $25 down as a deposit on two rear Yokos at $195 each. When my current tires need replacing, I'm supposed to call Discount Tire two days in advance, they place the internal order and I come in for the change in two days. It is my understanding that you can reserve as many tires as you want into the future, for the current sale price, using a very small deposit!!! Amazing!
Also keep in mind that any tires purchased with a certificate have been sitting around since at least September '99 which is when all the certificates expired.
Charles Johnston
04-20-2000, 15:30
Mark -- If you are Mark Bloom from Seattle, howdy. This is Charley Johnston from the Nuclear Waste Think Tank. I bought a 1991 NSX a couple years ago and recently lost it on some very wet pavement, hit a ditch, rolled and totaled it. I've been doing pretty diligent research ever sense to find if there is a tire that really makes the car safe for extensive Northwest driving. I've been in contact with a good handfull of people whose experience, like mine, would suggest that with the OEM Yokos it is not. The evidence points toward the SP9000 as the best bet if wet whether handling is a significant consideration. (I do a lot of long distance wet weather driving).
All the best --- Charley
SP 9000 is only good for wet pavement driving
for the dry condition, it's so so
Originally posted by NSEX:
SP 9000 is only good for wet pavement driving
for the dry condition, it's so so
Am I correct that the Dunlap SP9000s last many more miles than Yokos, and that in mostly dry conditions, the SP9000s don't have very good traction compared with Yokos?
I personally didn't have any experience with both yoko and SP 9000. I bought my nsx with Racing Hart type R rims on it so don't know anyting about the factory tires. For the SP 9000, my friend's M3 uses it and he's really satisfied with it.
It lasts much longer than SO-2 which I'm using now and it's amazing in the rain. Low tire noise as well but SP 9000 isn't cheap so you might consider P Zero which's around the same price as SP 9000.
ChopsJazz
04-21-2000, 11:45
In my post above (third from the top) I mention triple digit speeds on the Yok's. I guess I forgot to say that those speeds were IN THE RAIN. My Yok's handled brilliantly in the rain on the track with HARD braking, acceleration, and equally hard cornering. I don't know what other cars' set ups were that day, but I was passing M3s, Mustang Cobras, even a Ferrari 348. I feel very secure at speed in my car with the OEM Yok's. Heck, excessive tire wear is just a cost-of-ownership issue.
[This message has been edited by ChopsJazz (edited 22 April 2000).]
Andrie Hartanto
04-22-2000, 19:52
I was just came back from Thunderhill event organize by Jim Grinstead (BMW club). Jim own black 91 with NOS. He just put on SP9000 on it and he said it's squirmy. He tried my car and definetly like the handling better. I have Nitto 555zr. As I believe Nitto as not as good as Yoko, but they last a lot longer, and that is the main reason why I got them.
Mark Bloome
05-04-2000, 02:27
Originally posted by Mark Bloome:
Help! I am tire nowhere land. I need a pair of rear tires for my 95. After talking to dealers and reading test reports I am as confused as ever.
I do not drive the car very hard, and good ride and quiet are important. Also wet traction and decent wear.
But when I get down to choice confusion abounds.
The Dunlop 9000's got very good ratings from Automobile Mag, but they do not make the 9000 for the front. cost about $250 each.
The Bridgestone's RE71's got good ratings, but also do not make the same tire for the front. These tires cost about $108 each.
Then there is the Pirelli P7000 which the dealer recommends and there are front tires to match but the ratings as to ride and noise are poor. These cost about $245 each.
Next is the Yokohama AVS I which is avialable only for the rears and is supposed to be a good tire. Cost $150 each.
Any ideas out there?
Mark Bloome
05-04-2000, 02:30
[
I just bought the Dunlop 9000's and the ride is sgnificantly better--about 25% softer and also quieter. I have not taken the tires out for a super hard test, but then I do not drive that hard.
If the tires last longer and ride better then I will be happy.
------------------
Does anyone have firestone SZ50 tires on their car? I had them on my 300ZX and the performance was outstanding. I have done alot of suspension work since I had them on, and I still can not reach the limits of what those tires gave me, with all that I have done with different tires. The traction was great. I could not get those tires to break free to save my life, but now that I have crappy Nittos (i will never buy them again) I smoke them in second gear. I dont know what sizes they run and if you can get them on a NSX, but I thought I would throw out another tire possibility.
[This message has been edited by FiZZioN (edited 04 May 2000).]
To Mark Bloom:
If Dunlop does not make SP9000s for the front, what exactly did you buy in terms of sizes? RSVP
Originally posted by ChopsJazz:
I feel very secure at speed in my car with the OEM Yok's. Heck, excessive tire wear is just a cost-of-ownership issue.
I got to thinking about this and started looking over the FAQ. I was alarmed to read:
...........
[GM] Only OEM Bridgestone RE010, Yokohoma A022H and Dunlop SP8050 are constructed with the internal plys angled to scuff sideways (ply steer) when the car is driving in a straight line. This helps give the car its precise turn-in characteristics. Other tires may have other qualities, but I would not describe them as almost identical to OEM tires.
[Michael F. Hollander, Yokohama Tire Specialist] Here's some additional information from our Technical Department:
The compound of the front and rear NSX tires are slightly different in grip level. In addition to the compound, there are numerous construction and tread profile differences between the tires. These differences are necessary to work with the design of the suspension to give the target handling requested by the vehicle maker.
............
Well, that is enough for me. I figured there was a reason, maybe even 2 or 3, that Honda went to all the trouble to design tires for the car. With all this in mind it seems foolish to upgrade rims and tires to 17/18 and "normal" tires.
Or am I just being a little to conservative here? I agree with ChopsJazz, I am going to run the tires till they wear out, enjoy the artful balance intended by the Honda Engineers and then plunk down my money again for OEM Yokos when the time comes.
------------------
Gordon G. Miller, III
Y2K NSX #51 Yellow/Black
gordon@g3.com http://www.g3.com
You are right G-Man, and after all that evidence I think I will replace my Yokos with new Yokos when the time comes. Bridgestone Potenzas S-O2s have been great on my wife's Mercedes but I don't think they woudl give me any better mileage on my NSX than the original Yokos do.
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