View Full Version : How should Honda build the next NSX?
gheba_nsx
07-24-2003, 07:47
Honda is a company, they have also to make money on the cars they sell. This is a fact. They can tolerate to get even on special "halo" cars like the NSX: but they should at least recover costs...
What would you do if you were in their pants? No... do not think like a NSXPRIME fanatic ;), think realistically, as a Honda manager would do...
As I posted on the other threads on the same argument, I think that a car, similar in weight to the current one, V6, with 60ps more, same price would do very well. Everything above 120k$ would do very bad.
Honda should yes play in the big league (and 3000lbs/350ps IS big league) but not commit suicide against competing against cars that are a lot more advantaged (they only produce that kind of cars, they got prestige from that, they got name and recognition that "justify" putting 150k+$ on them...).
With 3000lbs/350ps/85k$ they could compete favorably against Porsche/Lotus and in a minor way even Ferrari, specially when the price is taken into account. And it would also remain competitive against Corvettes and Vipers (at least the new NSX would still have a edge in look, exoticness, reliability and build quality!).
Edited to correct some tipping error.
Gheba,
I would opt for the the 3000lbs version but I think that 350 FWHP is not enough to compete with that weight. The car should be able to compete with upcoming M3 and M5 easily, not even mentioning cars like the Modena 360
The 350 HP you mention is already easily achieved with the current engine with no too difficult to apply mods. A new NSX should have around 3.3-3.4 Kg/HP (7.2-7.5 Lbs/Kg).
We all know Honda can do this. Now it's up to them to show the rest of the world.
gheba_nsx
07-24-2003, 08:20
MvM, it should compete with Modena, true, but if it performs close to the Modena (350ps on the current NSX is quite similar to the Modena) for half the price, it WILL be a very good competitor IMHO :) . On the other hand, at 110k$, the price would be too high for most "rich" people to consider the Honda. :(
About the current NSX and 350ps, it is true, only when adding a SC. That is not what most people are considering when thinking to buy a 85k$ car. It should come reliable (the SC is not OEM reliable) and ready from teh factory. That is what magazine will test against the Modena...
...and for the SC nuts there is still plenty of (easy?) space to take the "new" NSX from 350 to 450ps by adding forced induction.
OK then, here's what I would do as a manager. I would not make a new NSX. There, that's probably upset you now!
Reason: S2000s sell well. Super performance from cars these days is no longer in the realm of the Porsche/Ferrari world. Audi, BMW and MB all have cars which perform well.
I believe the future is in smaller performance cars like the S2000. Why not uprate the S2000 to Porsche Boxster S level? Why not make the next NSX, Boxster sized and priced, with better performance, convertible etc.
The NSX was a good attempt at taking on the Porsche/Ferrari market, but the buyers of those couldn't be convinced.
If they start down the route of trying to get buyers based on outperforming Ferrari 360s and 911tt, they won't win. Sure the car may be better but who will buy it?
It is not in Honda ethos to make huge engined, loud, extreme sports cars.
In fact, why not even make a car that takes on the Lotus Elise?
CRX B16B VTEC
07-24-2003, 09:14
Smaller sports car must be on its way, reasons:
They don't have any CRX replacement
They don't have any S800 equivalent
They don't have any Beat replacement
Lotus Elise is selling well
so smaller version of S2000 or small midengined car like the Beat makes sense.
Soichiro
07-24-2003, 09:18
>>small midengined car like the Beat makes sense.
Not for the US market.
91 CRX DX (intimate relationship with Road Atlanta wall)
91 CRX Si
91 NSX
MAJOR STONER
07-24-2003, 10:56
Found this on my hard drive-
Yet more info about the NSX. Because the next Skyline GT-R will be expected to put out an astounding, 911-Turbo-killing 450-ps, Honda is fully upgrading its engine program. Following Nissan's lead, both manufacturers will ignore, for the first time, the domestic market power restriction of 280-ps. This unwritten law has been criticized for stifling the competitiveness of Japanese sports cars, and contributed, to a degree, their demise on the worldwide market outside of Japan.
A 3.5-litre V8 "base" engine will produce at least 400-ps, while a higher-spec model will have a 3.6-litre V8 producing at least 420-ps (and maybe even more, to battle the next GT-R). A 4-litre ultra-supercar is also under consideration (expect up to 500ps!)
Honda has learnt from its mistakes with the first NSX and the S2000 (JDM sales of the S2000 has continuously fallen to new lows as customers shy away from it. It is too peaky to drive in say, Tokyo, where traffic jams are the norm). Low-down torque will be more than ample this time around, and NSX will have class-leading performances in all areas. A steel body will keep costs down and will be less complicated to repair and insure. Honda has finally realized that just high-end power is not enough to satisfy buyers, it must also be easy to drive fast without having to rev to 9,000 rpm all the time.
Despite previous rumors to the contrary, Best Car Magazine now claims that the next version of the NSX will continue to have an all-aluminum body.
More interestingly, they also report that it will use Honda's IMA hybrid technology. Here, though, the focus wouldn't be on energy & fuel efficiency, but on boosting performance to an even higher level. Nonetheless, it would also allow for an improvement in fuel efficiency, an area where the NSX already stands well above similar exotic automobiles.
Auto Express describes the new NSX as a 400bhp version of the Insight, though the hybrid layout they describe is quite different. They describe the new NSX as keeping the mid-mounted ICE (3.5L V6), but adding an electric motor to drive the front wheels, making the car a 4WD. Auto Express also reports that testing of the new NSX is already underway at Honda's Japanese research and development center. It is reported that the new NSX is to be available in 2004."
That is one of my more appealing interpretations of a next-gen NSX. It still retains many of the features/proportions of the current car, while adding contemporary touches like the Acura center line crease and pointed front.
-Randy
that pic is awesome. I would prefer 450hp/<3000lbs, and same price or less.
None of these answers!
Sorry Gheba!
500+ hp SAE Net @ 10 000+ rpm for a real 89K$!
Still Al body...
And output of more than 120 hp / liter.
How? Easy as combining two S2K 4 inline to make a V8...
The NSX must regain its domination in regard of horsepower per liter and rpm's redline...
I agree with Fury NSX about the NSX picture attached by Major Stoner except about the center line crease and pointed front.
The next gen NSX will have to exhibit a power to weight ratio in the 3 kg per liter range or less...
gheba_nsx
07-25-2003, 03:43
NSXLuvr & effer,
I was trying to have a serious discussion about real possibilities :(, not dreams. Of course I would like an exchange program where they take my old NSX and they give me a 500ps monster with a couple years guarantee for some simbolic money, like 100$, since I drove around with their halo cars for so many year... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
No question: The next NSX should be +450ps.
When a trip takes thirty minutes, instead taking me ten, i'll get there in less than five! :D
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
NSXLuvr & effer,
I was trying to have a serious discussion about real possibilities :(, not dreams.
Gheba, I was serious.
Why is every other manufacturers able to throw 400 to 500 hp engines easily and not Honda?
In fact Honda can, just look how they brought a 240 hp monster @ 2 litres... it is only because they didn't jump in the high power and high displacement engines, because they are concerned with fuel efficiency and also the Japanese gentlement agreement...
But by today standards, you can't play in the exotic field under 400-500 hp.
Still not convinced?
How can Mc Laren cars limited can?
Remember, Mc Laren asked FIRST Honda to create their Mc Laren F1 engine.
When the NSX made its debut in 1990 they were absolutely in the same league than Porsche and Ferrari in regard of absolute power and more importantly in regard of power to weight ratio.
Just make some simple math with power to weight ratio of an original Testarossa and 911 Turbo!!!
Honda made the mistake of not improving the power of its NSX as fast as Porsche and Ferrari.
My axiom:
"give 500 hp to the NSX and sales are going to skyjump"
The big challenge is not to create such a capable engine but to keep the car as balanced as the actual version.
There is no real exotic, by today's standards, that can't break the 300 km/h limit, except for Ferrari ( with the 360 Modena ) benefiting from its only name and reputation...thus using its almost infinite sympathy capital to make forgive them theirs littles lies ( how often did they about real power and real perf numbers? ).
Finally, If you think I dream, Soichiro would appreciate me because dreaming is a magnificent and powerful tool for improvement. He was also a dreamer...
Sans rancunes Gheba!
effer :cool:
Making a 4 liter whatsoever number of cylinders @ more than 120 hp / L is totally in the reach of Honda...
When the NSX was first introduced, it was widely recognized as the best sports car in the world. It was as fast as anything out there, and it was a bargain because it was priced less than the Porsche and Ferrari competition.
If they want to do the same thing again, the straight-line acceleration would need to exceed that of the Z06, although not necessarily that of the 911TT or Viper. That means 0-60 around 4.0-4.2 and 1/4 mile times around 12.0-12.2. Price-wise, that means it would have to significantly undercut the 911TT ($117K).
And if they don't want to do that again, then it won't be competitive, and it won't sell.
The conclusion I come to is that the next NSX needs to be, at a minimum:
400hp/3000lbs/$85k
gheba_nsx
07-25-2003, 14:49
Originally posted by effer
Gheba, I was serious.
:)
Why is every other manufacturers able to throw 400 to 500 hp engines easily and not Honda?
Honda is able of course. Actually everybody is able. Even Kia. The problem are:
1) how you do it: like the Viper does with 8 liter displacement? It is not that "tecnological", gas-friendly, efficient... or with a big Turbo? That it is not in Honda usual way-of-work.
2) how much does it cost in R&D and to produce a similar car?
2) can you then sell it? For several years? And make some profit???
Still not convinced?
How can Mc Laren cars limited can?
Hmmm... good point ;) I did not think about this! They could also build a 1 Mio$ NSX! Same way as McLaren did! :D
When the NSX made its debut in 1990 they were absolutely in the same league than Porsche and Ferrari in regard of absolute power and more importantly in regard of power to weight ratio.
That does make sense. And even by being in line with Ferrari in performance and costing HALF the price, what has been the result? Did the NSX sell well?
Looking at the poll, I am kind of happy that many peole agree that a 350ps/sub 90k$ NSX would be the correct choice! The dream car with +450ps of course is tempting but does someone really think it would be wise financially?
CRX B16B VTEC
07-25-2003, 15:03
I was reading a car magazine while waiting for my Sushi... the next M series of BMW are all having V8s and V10s. (M3/M4/M6 etc)
Honda not only need to produce a NSX with V8 atleast, but need to come up with a better super saloon than the Accord Type R.
Originally posted by CRX B16B VTEC
I was reading a car magazine while waiting for my Sushi...
You shouldn't have to wait for sushi. :p
vegasnsx
07-25-2003, 16:54
Im sure the new NSX will have more than 350HP, the engineers are wanting to compete with Ferrari, Lambo,etc. im sure they know that 350hp isnt going to cut it. Gallardo has 500hp, the new 360 Modena replacement coming in 2006 will have 460hp, Honda will need to be close in HP or people wont buy, sad but true.
NetViper
07-25-2003, 17:04
As great as track numbers are, the american market has, and I think always will be a 1/4 mile mindset.
If the NSX cannot compete with the likes of the ferrari 360 and gallardo in the 1/4, it will not attract a lot of buyers. It would once again be people like us that bought the car for its overall balance and track abilities. This means 11.9-12.2 at 117+ MPH. Whatever amount of HP it takes to do that is fine with me.
I think the new NSX should be a weapon. Kind of like the Vanquish in the Bond film. Real guns, bullet proof glass, oil slick shooters... That way we don't have to race them, we just kill em!!
Really guys, isn't this horse dead enough? Nahhh!:cool:
gheba_nsx
07-25-2003, 18:21
I do not know... Modena, Gallardo, Aston... are we sure that the NSX has to challenge those cars? And would it even have a small possibility of competing with cars that start a lot ahead in the competition since they have something that cannot be built ("perceived status and heritage")?
I think the edge of the NSX could be the price. Offering something that status apart is quite close to the above mentioned cars for half the price (80-90k). And at the same time offering something that for a not such huge premium (plus 10-20k$ for the NSX) makes you want to pass on the Corvette, the M6 and the Viper.
By producing something in the over 100k$ I think (I know, I sound like a broken record) Honda will not be able to fill that not so crowded market of high performance cars priced 80-90k$.
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
:)
Honda is able of course. Actually everybody is able. Even Kia. The problem are:
1) how you do it: like the Viper does with 8 liter displacement? It is not that "tecnological", gas-friendly, efficient... or with a big Turbo? That it is not in Honda usual way-of-work.
Maybe you didn't read nor understood my previous post but I have answered that question.
Clues: think about S2K engine and also at the same time if possible think about 4 liter displacement THEN think about mixing those two informations...
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
:)
2) how much does it cost in R&D and to produce a similar car?
Not that much because Honda won't start from a blank sheet and I am becoming kind amazed how people are always falsely believing that engine development costs are PROPORTIONAL to its displacement or power output. ( Obviously I am not talking about a thousand hp @ 20K rpm... )
Not more than S2K's engine development cost.
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
:)
2) can you then sell it? For several years? And make some profit???
I would bet on that because customers want CHOICE and if Honda give them choice to buy a car as performant as a Ferrari or a Porsche and even a Lamborghini with their ( Honda of course! ) renowned reliability and assembly quality, I just CAN'T believe that Honda will not be able to gain over competition.
Who wouldn't consider seriously a 500 hp NSX @ 90K$ before a 996TT or 360 Modena or Murciélago???
I'd buy that NSX!!!
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
:)
Hmmm... good point ;) I did not think about this! They could also build a 1 Mio$ NSX! Same way as McLaren did! :D
Again you are missing the point because we are only talking about engine development, not the entire car package.
But maybe you are in the vanguard of those proclaiming that R&D costs of a 12 cylinder are twice those of a 6 cylinder!!! :D
And you also forgot that Mc Laren "didn't lose money" beside the fact that they only produced a mere hundred of F1.
Honda sold more than 100 X 10 NSX !!! Do you get it? Are NSX R&D costs higher than those of a Mc Laren F1?
This is also why I just don't believe the costs issues about not going on with second gen NSX.
Come on! It's too costly for Honda but absolutely reasonable for Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini, BMW...
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
:)
That does make sense. And even by being in line with Ferrari in performance and costing HALF the price, what has been the result? Did the NSX sell well?
YES during the three first years but the competition quickly adjusted their products, something that Honda didn't, AND this is where they made the big mistake...
Ferrari came with the F355 and then after the 360 Modena
Dodge introduced the Viper: the big steal in the bang for the buck category
Porsche beefed up theirs 911...
etc etc etc
True, in 1990 Honda came with the best sportscar in the world but as soon as 1993 the NSX should have gained more horse power to keep up with the competition.
To stay on top in the exotic car market its like in Formula One, staying at the same level of performance is the same as regressing.
In fact Honda stayed virtually at the same level all the time with the NSX!
Originally posted by gheba_nsx
:)
Looking at the poll, I am kind of happy that many people agree that a 350ps/sub 90k$ NSX would be the correct choice!
The dream car with +450ps of course is tempting but does someone really think it would be wise financially?
Do you know about the large numbers law? :D
Do you know what is a representative and valid statistical result?
:D
I still am totally sure that Honda can make a 500+ hp exotic for less than 90 K$.
Toujours sans rancunes monsieur Gheba!!!
effer
today was a superb day because I was planing on my wave board in 20 knots winds. I love my NSX and I also love windsurfing!
Remember what the NSX stands for; New Sportscar eXperimental. It might be a new concept (probably with electric hybrid engine does not mean it will have bigger power than before just better efficiency) and other additional gadgets that other cars haven't use yet.
For sure it will again be a pioneer for other car to follow.
Just think, if NSX is to be designed with a lot of power, surely one day there will be other cars that is better.
People like NSX because of its supremecy in ground control (good handling). On a sportscar level how many car have that (exception latest Porsche 911, I'm open-minded so don't flame me).
Look at the new Porsche 911 GT3. 3.6 L flat six. 375 HP, 284 lb of torque. 8200 RPM redline. 0-60 mph in 4 secs, quarter mile in 12.3 secs @118 mph. 3050 lb curb weight. Now just imagine what Honda could do with a 3.6 L six for the NSX ??? :eek:
Originally posted by LUV2REV
Look at the new Porsche 911 GT3. 3.6 L flat six. 375 HP, 284 lb of torque. 8200 RPM redline. 0-60 mph in 4 secs, quarter mile in 12.3 secs @118 mph. 3050 lb curb weight. Now just imagine what Honda could do with a 3.6 L six for the NSX ??? :eek:
I think you are confusing the GT2 (456 hp, $180K) with the GT3 (375 hp, $100K). The GT2 does 0-60 in 4 seconds (actually, as quick as 3.8) and the 1/4 mile in 12.1 (per Motor Trend), whereas the GT3 is expected to do 0-60 around 4.3 or so and the 1/4 mile in the upper 12's. No magazine tests on the US-spec GT3 have been published yet.
Check out Car and Driver June 2003. page's 75-76
whoever voted on "Cheaper: 300ps/3300lbs/65k$ - front engine, no alu or special materials" should be hang.... :D
WHOA! i really like that pic - where did it come from?
CRX B16B VTEC
07-27-2003, 15:56
Imagine Honda come up with something we really want... new engine etc... but with ALTEZZA tail lights!! That would be sad.
MAJOR STONER
07-27-2003, 16:04
Picture is from US Road & Track magazine in August 2000, I believe.
Originally posted by MAJOR STONER
Picture is from US Road & Track magazine in August 2000, I believe.
Right on Major Stoner! Page 60 and also page 8 ( R&T index page ).
I too prefer that modernized NSX version, well over the one illustrated also in Road & Track of September 2001.
To answer Jin 1976
"Remember what the NSX stands for; New Sportscar eXperimental."
"Just think, if NSX is to be designed with a lot of power, surely one day there will be other cars that is better."
Maybe it is too obvious for us NSXers, but when we ask for more power we all implicitly means with the same balance and the same finesse in handling. Obviously it has to be an NSX!!!
Remember that the NSX deserves very much its name because never before a midengine car was as performant while as civilized, everyday usable, reliable, luxurious, and efficient...
As today, exception made of the Mc Laren F1 ( and maybe the 996 TT and 360 Modena : but this is debatable I believe... oups!maybe also the Saleen S7 ???), there is no car over 400 hp that could deserve the NSX label if you know what I mean.
When Honda will show a 400 or more hp NSX be sure that it will again set standards in handling for its category...
gheba_nsx
08-04-2003, 06:17
Ok, after two weeks and about 900 views we got 78 votes. Not a lot but IMO quite representative anyway.
This is the result as of today:
Evolution: 350ps/3000lbs/85k$ - mid engine, maybe alu or special materials -- 39.74%
Wheapon!: +450ps/sub 3000lbs/130+k$ mid engine, exotic materials or alu -- 37.18%
WOW: 400ps/3000lbs/110k$ - mid engine, exotic materials or alu -- 21.79%
Cheaper: 300ps/3300lbs/65k$ - front engine, no alu or special materials -- 1.28%
Only one person voted for the cheaper "NSX". Probably the wisest car to build for Honda... competing against the Vettes with a more stylish (the NSX is a lot nicer! :) ) and reliable car. Afterall this is 20ps more than what we have now and for less money too... :p
The "Modena performer" got several votes and many complaints. 400 ps are not enough for many people... :rolleyes:
And 110k is too expensive. We want also Santa and some chocoloate with it, thanks.
Then a lot of people voted the "dream" NSX. The one we will probably never get... a suicide in sales term for Honda IMHO. This is what most of us would like Honda to produce, but not to buy it ... wait... wait... hopefully in 10 years it will cost below 50k$ and we will be able to jump on it. Will we then complain that the 250k$ expensive 2012 BMW M5 has 750ps and smoke our NSX in a straight line? ;)
I am happy that the evolution car possibilty still got more votes than the other three possibilities. That would mean a lot IMO: evolution and not revolution is the key to produce longterm success, like the 911 did. It would also be nice getting some improvement every two-three years. Enlaring the base of customers and creayting a kind of "heritage".
POWERED by HONDA
08-04-2003, 12:57
I voted for "Weapon!"
I think people want more than 400 hp because we are afraid Honda will not replace the car for 12-15 years after it's introduction... just like the current generation. We need something that will be competitive for that many years.
gheba_nsx
08-04-2003, 13:53
That is one of my point: why create an overkiller car now when you can set the price lower, offer less but still top performance (350-400ps is more than adequate now) and upgrade the car every 2-3 years, just like Porsche does. The price will be rounded up accordingly. ;)
Something like 30ps and 5k every three year.
People will not have to jump on a 120-150k Honda, from scratch. They will gradually build trust, magazine coverage, customer base, ... and in 10-50-20 years "NSX" will be on par with the top players.
Going now for a "Wheapon" :) and not upgrading it anymore would IMO be repeating the marketing error that was done in 1991 :(. As somebody wrote yesterday in another thread, magazines seek new stuff. You have to offer this in order to get coverage (=interest, possible customers).
POWERED by HONDA
08-04-2003, 14:20
Point taken. And I agree 100%. But will Honda actually do that? I sure HOPE SO!!!
Well, this is my first post to this site, so don't throw tomatoes at me too quick..
I think Acura needs to stand behind their motto when recreating the NSX. If I can look at a 12 year old platform and appreciate its build quality, design, functionality and appeal, I would hope they wouldn't stray from that accomplishment. The new car doesn't need 500 hp. Yes it needs attractive performance numbers, but HOW it is achieved is what I'd look at. There's a reason NSX owners didn't buy a Corvette..
I think the next car should have a N/A, flexible 3-4 liter V8 with I-VTEC technology. If this car can compete with Porsche's GT3, stay under 100K, AND carry a timeless design with Honda value, I doubt they'll have any problems selling cars to well-heeled import purists.
Originally posted by nsxtasy
The conclusion I come to is that the next NSX needs to be, at a minimum:
400hp/3000lbs/$85k
Let see if I follow YOUR reasoning :
400,01hp/6000lbs/$300k would be better :D
but I understand that :
"Abusus non tollit usum"
I would say that my conclusion is that the next NSX needs to be, at a maximum: 3,0 kg per hp / $85k. :)
I picked "WOW" if I can only pick one. What I'd really like to see is 2 versions.
1> 350hp, 2900lb @$85k
2> 450hp, 3000lb @$100k
For $15k, customers have the option to get an upgraded motor (Turbo, SC, electic...) with light weigh components. Similar to Porsche 911 approach with a N/A and Turbo version. The N/A offers the volume for the bean counters, but owners can still brag about the Turbo version. So the image of the 911s is that they offer world class performance but you can own a lesser one even if you are not swimming in money.
Either way, I hope that the torque will be in the high 300's.
So if Acura/Honda built a new NSX with twice the performance, but for the same price as the current NSX, what would happen to the market for the current NSX's? If someone just bought an '03 NSX, for example, what would happen if you tried to sell it for the new model? I don't see why anyone would buy a one year old NSX with 290 hp, when they could have a brand new one with twice the performance, for basically the same price or a little more? I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this issue, but curious to see what you all think about it. Anyone?
Originally posted by White92
...I don't see why anyone would buy a one year old NSX with 290 hp, when they could have a brand new one with twice the performance, for basically the same price or a little more?...
Such are the vagaries of the automotive world. Besides, if you bought the car because you like it, what does the resale value have to do with it. If you bought it for speculation, then the volitility of the auto market might bite you.
CokerRat
08-12-2003, 16:05
Originally posted by White92
I don't see why anyone would buy a one year old NSX with 290 hp, when they could have a brand new one with twice the performance,Surely you're not suggesting that nobody should attempt dramatic improvements in their product line for fear of offending recent purchasers? Typically sales in the year leading up to a publicized revamp are dismal. Some manufacturers have gone as far as to not produce a car for that model year. My guess is it would take substantial time to retool a factory to produce a vastly different car and you'd have to skip the production run for a few months minimum.
I can only assume that anyone postulating a hybrid NSX (i.e. electric motor assist) has never drove such a car.
This technology, while suitable for economy cars and maybe some street performance cars (i.e. occasional 0-60 blast) just wouldn't work for a such a track ready car as the NSX.
You might get two laps around a road course before the batteries would deplete and wind up being dead weight. You need steady speed driving to recharge the batteries.
And yes, while you do plenty of hard braking on the track, there's no available technology to effectively channel all of that energy back into the batteries so quickly. It will be lost as heat.
Honda (and others) will certainly expand hybrid technologies. They might even put it into a sporty street car or truck/SUV. Putting it into the NSX would invalidate the purpose of the NSX.
I think Honda's certainly capable of getting close to 400 HP out of a 3.5-4.0 L V6. Perhaps with a turbo or supercharger. Couple that with the same basic design and a modest restyle and I think you have a reasonable path forward.
-Jim
Oh I'm not suggesting anything. I'm just curious as to what everyone else thinks. I couldn't care either way. Me personally? I would seriously consider buying probably whatever they put out as the "new" NSX. Obviously I didn't buy my NSX thinking it was some Accord and I could make a killing with the resale value. It's not that type of car. I've always known that.
Blue Knight
08-12-2003, 17:00
nice poll, gheba....
i would most certainly want the $130k 450ps top of the food chain NSX.....
i want to see NSX progress in power, reputation, technology, etc...and keep it's rarity. i certainly don't want all my neighbors to have one in their garage....but that's me.
remember, the first NSX was designed after the ferrari 348....
450ps should be no problem against the 360......
the NSX should continue its supercar legacy and step up a notch to compete against gallardo, GT2, 911 turbo, 360, etc.....
for $130k, it's gonna blow all these cars away......
When I read Japanese megazine, it said V-10 600hp+ I will put the source later. Honda already made this engine in 2004
When I read Japanese megazine, it said V-10 600hp+ I will put the source later. Honda already made this engine in 2004
Can't wait to hear another V10 rumour :rolleyes: But 600 hp is sick... Carrera GT class :eek: :eek:
Talk about a thread rising from the dead! Shouldn't this be listed in the Second Generation NSX/HSC Discussion forum? Maybe it didn't exist when this thread was created. :)
NetViper
08-30-2006, 16:41
This thread is two years old and the playing field has changed IMO. 350 HP would be laughed at today.
This thread is two years old and the playing field has changed IMO. 350 HP would be laughed at today.
Even 450 hp.
Here is the magazine which i read.. believe or not..kk:wink:
NetViper
08-30-2006, 22:33
Here is the magazine which i read.. believe or not..kk:wink:
What does any of that mean? Is that saying 600HP? How old is that?
IMO, the new NSX will have to outperform the new GT-R for it to be taken seriously.
What does any of that mean? Is that saying 600HP? How old is that?
IMO, the new NSX will have to outperform the new GT-R for it to be taken seriously.
Ok... i dont remember what it says exactly, cause my girl friend explained for me..kkk this one issued on aug 2005... and cost about $3.00 anyone can read??? she is currently in japan..i will ask her again..what i remember is that the new nsx is made by previous nsx's frame. mid engine awd but the body will get shorter and widder little bit, and will show on oct 2007 in japan..their target is porsche gt and lambo g, not other japanese cars...that;s why toyota developed lf-a because of honda. these are what i remember now.. however, this magazine is a pretty good.. means when i read about 350z, lexus, supra, gtr and other cars, it came almost like what it said on the meagazie.. but who knows, honda never announced about next nsx...we just have to wait til it comes out..
haha
yeah!!!!
my vote is not listed.
I vote:
MR or Mid 4WD, V8 or V10 500+hp, under 3000lbs and priced fairly around $90k-$110k :biggrin:
slashmatt
08-31-2006, 00:57
A new NSX should (according to it's heritage)...
1. Outperform a Ferrari F430 by including a more technologically advanced and more compact engine while incorporating the use more advanced materials for it's chassis. (I guess a 3.0 L V10 with pneumatic valves like an F1 engine would do the job for the engine. For the chassis, I'm pretty sure the only way to beat Aluminum is with titanium and carbon fiber)
2. Cost about the same as a a Porsche 911 (~$75k these days)
3. Be built to model the lines of an F22 raptor (original was an F16)
4. Have it's suspension tuning done by Fernando Alonso (a current F1 champion)
5. Have the most advanced defeatable traction control and abs system available.
6. Be commisioned by a corporate leader with the will to give away great cars at a loss to prove that his company is more capable than any other company in the sports car world.
Good luck Honda.
nsxsupra
08-31-2006, 01:43
I hope it will not be 350hp. That would make the car the joke of every car forum, another target for countless disrespectful attacks. We are approaching 2010, this is not 1990s anymore. Please be realistic.
The current Ferrari F430 is already at 476hp. 16years ago NSX had 270hp, that was a good match for the 300hp Ferrari 348 at the time. 16years later they should at very least match or come close to F430. We are talking about a first class super car, not a entry level sports car competiting against next generation 350Zs, STI, EVOs, etc.
Power sells, if the car make impressive power, it will do well. American is their #1 customer. Last time I checked people were paying $150K for a Ford sports car. If they can make a F430 or Ford GT beater with must have exterior styling like they did with original NSX. Then they should do fine even if the car sell over $100k.
TURBO2GO
08-31-2006, 13:39
A new NSX should (according to it's heritage)...
1. Outperform a Ferrari F430 by including a more technologically advanced and more compact engine while incorporating the use more advanced materials for it's chassis. (I guess a 3.0 L V10 with pneumatic valves like an F1 engine would do the job for the engine. For the chassis, I'm pretty sure the only way to beat Aluminum is with titanium and carbon fiber)
2. Cost about the same as a a Porsche 911 (~$75k these days)
3. Be built to model the lines of an F22 raptor (original was an F16)
4. Have it's suspension tuning done by Fernando Alonso (a current F1 champion)
5. Have the most advanced defeatable traction control and abs system available.
6. Be commisioned by a corporate leader with the will to give away great cars at a loss to prove that his company is more capable than any other company in the sports car world.
Good luck Honda.
LOL... good points, but 75K? less than what the old one cost? aren't you asking for a bit much? I agree with everything else you are saying.
gheba_nsx
09-01-2006, 05:24
haha
yeah!!!!
my vote is not listed.
I vote:
MR or Mid 4WD, V8 or V10 500+hp, under 3000lbs and priced fairly around $90k-$110k :biggrin:
Maybe you didn't notice that the poll is more than 3 years old... :rolleyes:
At that time we were still expecting a new NSX for the end of 2005... yeah... way to go Honda... :frown:
NetViper
09-01-2006, 18:24
Maybe you didn't notice that the poll is more than 3 years old... :rolleyes:
At that time we were still expecting a new NSX for the end of 2005... yeah... way to go Honda... :frown:
Sad isn't it. I wonder what the real reason for the HSC being scrapped was. I also wonder if it was actually turbocharged like one report said. At first I thought that was BS, but now that I see the RDX, I think it might have been a 3.5L V6 turbo.
Realitically, I think the next NSX will be a V10 with 500HP. I think it will be competitve until the next version of the F430 comes out. I hope the pricing stays under 100K, but it is hard to say.
the side profile on that V10 NSX is hideous!!!!
gheba_nsx
09-02-2006, 05:33
Realitically, I think the next NSX will be a V10 with 500HP. I think it will be competitve until the next version of the F430 comes out. I hope the pricing stays under 100K, but it is hard to say.
I agree... it is so not-Hondaish to have a V10/500hp, it would be completely out of what they did until now on the whole product range.
It sounds like CASIO producing a 8k$ Tourbillon watch...
I still imagine (if it will ever happen, I am not very positive anymore :frown:) a V8(:confused: strange too but not as much as the V10) or a V6 turbo with around 380-400hp at best. A GT3 fighter.
Price 85k-90k.
Of course many won't like it here but anything above that price (and a V10/500hp on a car made with fancy light materials will cost >120k even if sold at NET cost) will not sell in the 1000s for more than two years. IMO of course.
I agree... it is so not-Hondaish to have a V10/500hp, it would be completely out of what they did until now on the whole product range.
It sounds like CASIO producing a 8k$ Tourbillon watch...
I still imagine (if it will ever happen, I am not very positive anymore :frown:) a V8(:confused: strange too but not as much as the V10) or a V6 turbo with around 380-400hp at best. A GT3 fighter.
Price 85k-90k.
Of course many won't like it here but anything above that price (and a V10/500hp on a car made with fancy light materials will cost >120k even if sold at NET cost) will not sell in the 1000s for more than two years. IMO of course.
I hope it is a mid-engine, supercar/exotic, world beater with super low production numbers (ala first gen or less). I love having a car you rarley see on the road.
500 hp ultra light materials....too expensive for the average Joe.
I have a blank check ready to go.:biggrin:
Synthesis
09-04-2006, 20:53
I hope it will not be 350hp. That would make the car the joke of every car forum, another target for countless disrespectful attacks. We are approaching 2010, this is not 1990s anymore. Please be realistic.
The current Ferrari F430 is already at 476hp. 16years ago NSX had 270hp, that was a good match for the 300hp Ferrari 348 at the time. 16years later they should at very least match or come close to F430. We are talking about a first class super car, not a entry level sports car competiting against next generation 350Zs, STI, EVOs, etc.
Power sells, if the car make impressive power, it will do well. American is their #1 customer. Last time I checked people were paying $150K for a Ford sports car. If they can make a F430 or Ford GT beater with must have exterior styling like they did with original NSX. Then they should do fine even if the car sell over $100k.
damn right. my friend's gto came with 400 horse - i want it to have more than that.
i don't think you'll see a TOTAL F1-type street car from Honda though (not like a ferrari). i don't know how honda (or any other japanese company) would like to sell a car that needs major maintenance at 10k. not their style.
(and if you think the nsx is currently "f1ish"..... look at the engine from an F1 car and compare it to a ferrari's and the nsx's. the answers right there....)
Stick-e-rice
09-08-2006, 04:46
40mpg/400hp/90K price tag/super handling/reliable like the current NSX 0-60 in the 4s
IMO.:smile:
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