Camera for my car

[v8killer]

What is a good camera and mount combination for an NSX to film from inside of the car.

[nsxtasy]

Camera - there are lots of good video cameras on the market now.

Mount - check out the offerings at IO Port Racing (http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=IPRS&Category_Code=CM). If you don't have a harness bar, their HAMA universal mount works very well.

[RSO 34]

I use a Canon Elura with the following mount:

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CM&Category_Code=CM

This presumes that your have a harness/roll bar in the car.

Bob

[Acura NsX Pilot]

I have used a few different mounts and my favorite is the hama mount...the only complaint i have about this mount is that the suction cup isnt very strong.....but i am going to change mine to the pump type and that should solve the problem. The suction cup is adequate IMO but i will be much happier when i switch mine to the other type.

Hama Mount

http://www.ioportracing.com/images/thumbnail/cmhama.jpg

http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=CMHama&Category_Code=CM

This is from another company....great suction cup

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/sm1b.jpg

http://www.b-hague.co.uk/Mounting%20Brackets.htm

similiar to the one above but this company is in the USA

http://store2.yimg.com/I/cinemasupplies_1756_29715893

http://store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/gripexsucvac.html

Here goes another style..you can probably make this one at home

http://www.videoinnovators.com/pro4.gif
http://www.videoinnovators.com/product2.html

[O-Ace]

My friends over at Renn-Art developed a new camera mount that works very well (stable): Their website: www.renn-art.com (http://www.renn-art.com)

[ChopsJazz]

Originally posted by O-Ace
My friends over at Renn-Art developed a new camera mount that works very well (stable): Their website: www.renn-art.com (http://www.renn-art.com)

That website is a little difficult to navigate for camera mounts, so the direct link for the mount is here (http://www.renn-art.com/renn-art.com-asp/designed1.asp).

[Nimbus]

I just ordered the one from: http://store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/gripexsucvac.html

Thanks for the link!

[sjs]

Is there any reason to believe that ones designed for environments like a race car have special fluid damping or the like to reduce vibration? Or did I simply miss tha info during my brief look at the above links?

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Originally posted by sjs
Is there any reason to believe that ones designed for environments like a race car have special fluid damping or the like to reduce vibration? Or did I simply miss tha info during my brief look at the above links?

No there is no special damping device built into these cam mounts ...but if your cam has a image stabilizer built in it will probably be more then enough for the track.

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Originally posted by Nimbus
I just ordered the one from: http://store.yahoo.com/cinemasupplies/gripexsucvac.html

Thanks for the link!

Just a heads up on this mount.....if your planning on mounting this to the back of the glass behind the seats ...it sits a little bit on the high side and the rear view mirror blocks part of the view.I tried mounting this on the front windshield but because of the angle of the windshield and the short universal swivel arms on this mount i could not mount the cam ...but if you go to the manufacturers site they sell an optional bracket which extends the base and allows you to mount the cam up front.

http://www.powrgrip.com/powrgrip/images/thumb/cltb_100.jpg

http://www.powrgrip.com/powrgrip/images/thumb/clta_100.jpg




http://www.powrgrip.com/cgi-bin/powrgrip/sporting_camera_mounts.html

[sjs]

Originally posted by Acura NsX Pilot
No there is no special damping device built into these cam mounts ...but if your cam has a image stabilizer built in it will probably be more then enough for the track.

Well, I mentioned a race car because I need one that can also be used in my GT4 510 with hard suspension and solid bushings everywhere. The thing rattles fillings loose so I can only imagine what video will look like. As for image stabilization my old Sony has it as do most new cameras, but I'm considering small dedicated cameras in each car and a recorder that gets moved around. The recorder will be simple to isolate but the cameras maybe not. Lots of people doing this though so it can’t be too tough.

[tararan]

those renn-art mount looks awesome but i dont think i can trust a suction cup to hold my camera during hard driving though.

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Originally posted by tararan
those renn-art mount looks awesome but i dont think i can trust a suction cup to hold my camera during hard driving though.

The suction cups that film tools use are the same type they use to mount glass ......ive even used these suction cups to pull dents out of door panels ....even thou there super strong most tracks wont allow that type of mount unless its mechanically fastened to something...like a roll cage.The io port mount mention earlier by RSO 34 meets all the requirements for track use.

[Tank]

Originally posted by sjs
The thing rattles fillings loose so I can only imagine what video will look like. As for image stabilization my old Sony has it as do most new cameras, but I'm considering small dedicated cameras in each car and a recorder that gets moved around. The recorder will be simple to isolate but the cameras maybe not. Lots of people doing this though so it can’t be too tough.

I actually mount cameras on cars for a living. Vibration is always the enemy. There is no consumer level image stabilization device that works in this environment - the stabilizer's reaction time is too slow. So the trick is to mask the effect of the vibration which is done in two ways. 1) Use a wide angle lens. The wider the camera's field of view is, the less noticable the vibration. and/or 2) Mount the camera as tight as possible to the body/frame of the car. If the camera vibrates at the same rate as the car, you won't notice it as much since the vibration in the picture is mostly seen in foreground objects or parts of the car closest to the camera. The more you can make the camera one with the car, the less you'll notice it.

To achieve that solid of a mounting, you need a big mount. The one that Nimbus bought (mentioned above) is a great mount for small cameras or camcorders. That suction cup will pull your window/door off before it lets go. But attention still has to be paid to how far that arm assembly sticks out - the more anything is cantelevered (sp?) out the more the vibration is amplified to a frequency different that the car part it's attached to. The best mounts are still the ones that involve the least amount of hardware and clamp directly to a very solid part of the car like the harness bar or roll cage. If you're using a remote-head camera (not a camcorder) which are likely to be smaller and lighter, then mounting becomes a lot easier to the point that it can be simply taped or tie-wrapped to a surface.

Hope this helps.

[sjs]

Originally posted by Tank
I actually mount cameras on cars for a living...
...Hope this helps.

Helps a lot, thanks! Can you recommend a decent remote-head camera and recorder? The Web is so full of places selling schlock video stuff that it's hard to distinguish good from junk. At the same time, places that specialize in "race cams" seem to get an absolute premium for repackaging and labeling generic stuff under the guise of being "specialized". (No offense if you have such a shop.;) ) Surely a DIY guy like me can find a reasonable middle ground without a ton of research or trial & error. Yea I know, that's part of what the race cam guys are selling, but nothing says I have to pay for it when I have resources like NSX Prime. :)

[Tank]

I just finished building a system for myself but it's not anything that you would be interested in: the camera cost $4000 and the recorder another $2000 plus other parts. Then again my application is broadcast TV. I work for NBC News.

The price for turn-key set-ups may seem high but it's hard to buy the parts for less. The biggest factor in all this is the quality of the video. A measurement of that is how many lines of resolution the camera has. The camera I mentioned above has 850 lines. Most racing cameras have about 375 lines. The recorder is also a factor. VHS, Hi8, or DV can make a big difference. DV is the best but it also cost the most. Then again, it's the easiest to get into a computer without a loss of quality.

I think RaceCam is the best system out there right now.

http://www.racecam.com/#product

You still need to provide a recorder of some sort like a camcorder. So you're talking about $2500 for the high resolution package (450 line) if you don't already have a good camcorder to use. The only set up I could suggest that wouldn't be a major pain in the butt to build is the Sony GVD-1000 mini-DV Watchman recorder with the attached CVXV-3 camera. No fuss, no muss. Only one cable, only one battery, a built-in stereo mike, weather resistant, and a fairly good quality. The cable from the camera to the recorder is a little short (about 8 feet) but it's the tops in no-brainer set-ups. It runs about $2000 complete.

If you don't need a remoted camera head, then any small DV camcorder is good. The only 2 types of cameras that I deal with are high resolution ones (3 chip) and ultra-small low-res hidden cameras. We just did a Dateline segment in Vegas where we used a pinhole camera woven into a shirt. Really crap quality but we got the picture and sound of hookers talking their trade in a bar.

Bottom line here is what level of quality do you want? Low-res cameras are pretty cheap but you have to record them somewhere, and that's where the dollars start to grow quickly. Add a mike to that and you're into a lot of wiring, having special connectors made, impedance matching, power issues, camera housings, and what not. I would really try for an off-the-shelf solution.

I hope this is a start even though it's probably not what you wanted to hear. If I can be of any more help just let me know.

Tom

[ChopsJazz]

Originally posted by sjs
my GT4 510 with hard suspension

What's a GT4 510?

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Originally posted by sjs
Helps a lot, thanks! Can you recommend a decent remote-head camera and recorder? The Web is so full of places selling schlock video stuff that it's hard to distinguish good from junk. At the same time, places that specialize in "race cams" seem to get an absolute premium for repackaging and labeling generic stuff under the guise of being "specialized". (No offense if you have such a shop.;) ) Surely a DIY guy like me can find a reasonable middle ground without a ton of research or trial & error. Yea I know, that's part of what the race cam guys are selling, but nothing says I have to pay for it when I have resources like NSX Prime. :)

Use a DV camcorder first and see if you like the results.... there are alot of videos on prime done this way and i think there just fine...if you download and watch the video that Akira3d just done for the canyon run .... its a good example ...that video by the way was compressed so the quality is not as good as the original but for downloading and space saving on the server it was produced that way.....Im sure if you were to ask Akira3d for a short un-compressed clip he might have one and then you can see the differance in video quality.

Heres some short clips i shot...there non compressed video at full resolution.

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4290987083&code=6116028&mode=invite

[Nimbus]

Originally posted by Acura NsX Pilot
Just a heads up on this mount.....if your planning on mounting this to the back of the glass behind the seats ...it sits a little bit on the high side and the rear view mirror blocks part of the view.I tried mounting this on the front windshield but because of the angle of the windshield and the short universal swivel arms on this mount i could not mount the cam ...but if you go to the manufacturers site they sell an optional bracket which extends the base and allows you to mount the cam up front.

http://www.powrgrip.com/powrgrip/images/thumb/cltb_100.jpg

http://www.powrgrip.com/powrgrip/images/thumb/clta_100.jpg



http://www.powrgrip.com/cgi-bin/powrgrip/sporting_camera_mounts.html

Excellent info. Thanks for the heads-up.

[Ag NSX]

I purchased the bogen Super Clamp + double ball mount for other purposes. I think it would work well as its designed to clamp to round and flat surfaces. It's pretty big but may work. The arm shown here is bigger than the one I bought. THe clamp is on the bottom. I paid about $20 for the clamp, and $25 for the arm on Ebay.

http://www.micsupply.com/superclampassembly.jpg

[akira3d]

Im sure if you were to ask Akira3d for a short un-compressed clip he might have one and then you can see the differance in video quality.

I don't have much space for uncompressed or DV-codec video clips, but I may consider posting a short DVD quality MPEG2 clip on ImageStation one of these days.

I've been getting pretty good results from my Hama mount with Sony IP55 video camera. The IP55 is small and light enough that the Hama mount's suction cup can solidly support it regardless of how precariously I orient the arm. Of course, I'd prefer to have a remote head (like what Tank has access to) that I could position outside of the car (I'm not willing to risk my camcorders outside without some form of shielding)...and I wouldn't settle for one that has resolultion lower than 480 lines since I burn DVDs of my footage.

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Originally posted by akira3d
Of course, I'd prefer to have a remote head (like what Tank has access to) that I could position outside of the car (I'm not willing to risk my camcorders outside without some form of shielding)...and I wouldn't settle for one that has resolultion lower than 480 lines since I burn DVDs of my footage.

I concur ;)

[RSO 34]

Here is a clip taken at Watkins Glen (in the rain of course) over the Labor Day weekend using the mount and camera I listed above:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289206063&code=6381042&mode=invite

Bob

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Originally posted by RSO 34
Here is a clip taken at Watkins Glen (in the rain of course) over the Labor Day weekend using the mount and camera I listed above:

Bob

Hey Bob is that background available from imagestation or is that custom.....ill have to look for it next time.See you in NH.

[RSO 34]

That is a new background available on imagestation. It just came online a few weeks ago. The only problem with it is that it obscures the "writing" on the main page to a certain extent but I still like the look.

Any problems viewing the video? This is the first clip that I have tried to upload to imagestation.

Bob

[Nimbus]

No problems downloading the video. Nice lap of the Glen. Might want to shoot with noise reduction if your camera supports it. Wind noise was too strong, can't hear the sound of your engine much.

[RSO 34]

Originally posted by Nimbus
Wind noise was too strong, can't hear the sound of your engine much.

That is always the problem when running with windows down. I would rather hear the engine too but unless I run a remote mike into the hatch or block the built in mike on the camera there really is not much else that can be done other than dub music when I convert the dv tapes to dvds.

[Nimbus]

My camera has a noise reduction feature which cuts down on most of the wind noise hence my original suggestion. I have plenty of HPDE footages (with both windows down of course) and my results has been excellent with very minimal wind noise. To me I like to be able to hear the sound of my throttle when I review my lap performance.

[RSO 34]

I'll check to see if I have that on mine. If I do, I know I have never used it so it is about time I look for it. When you use yours, what effect, if any, does it have on your ability to hear the engine?

Thanks for the tip!

[ChopsJazz]

Originally posted by RSO 34
but unless I run a remote mike into the hatch

I have done this and it works pretty well.

What's a GT4 510?

[Nimbus]

Originally posted by RSO 34
I'll check to see if I have that on mine. If I do, I know I have never used it so it is about time I look for it. When you use yours, what effect, if any, does it have on your ability to hear the engine?

Thanks for the tip!

Looking up my manuel specifically, there is an option under mode settings for WIND OFF/ON. Factory setting is OFF. Description for ON says "To reduce wind noise when recording in strong wind".

With WIND ON, engine sound is loud and clear while the camcorder cuts out on all the wind noise. Don't ask me how they do it.:)

[Newman]

A little late, but here's the same camera mount that some of use for our road race and/or Honda Challenge cars - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=5161&is=REG

When I originally was looking into camcorder mounts, a lot of people pointed me to the IO Port products but they were double the price as compared to the BH Photo mount.

[Acura NsX Pilot]

A little late, but here's the same camera mount that some of use for our road race and/or Honda Challenge cars - http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=5161&is=REG

When I originally was looking into camcorder mounts, a lot of people pointed me to the IO Port products but they were double the price as compared to the BH Photo mount.


Good find !!

[W]

I mount my camcorder to a tripod and secure it behind the passenger seat angled between (but behind) the driver and passenger seats.

[RSO 34]

I mount my camcorder to a tripod and secure it behind the passenger seat angled between (but behind) the driver and passenger seats.

That type of set up would never be permitted on the track.

[NSX-Racer]

Just another suggestion for the camera itself, that a dealer proposed me for car use:
http://www.genyosha.com/s-photo/JCTNissues/J2004-08/J2004-08-Products/J2004-08-Sanyo.html

Very light, has also stereo audio, remote control and records with mpeg 4 on SD cards. You can shoot single pics also during video recording. The older C1 couldn't be used in the car because it had no image stabilization but this one has.

Here in Germany we have to wait for it 'til end of october but I'm pretty sure I will get one - a Hama suction cup mount is already ordered.

[pt91]

I am looking for a non-track mount for my miniDV for back window placement and maybe front window as well. I have read a lot of post and narrowed to a couple.

Any recommendations between these two:

Hama mount
Renn-Art model

Bailey, you seem to have used a few. Maybe you can help me? :)

[Acura NsX Pilot]

I am looking for a non-track mount for my miniDV for back window placement and maybe front window as well. I have read a lot of post and narrowed to a couple.

Any recommendations between these two:

Hama mount
Renn-Art model

Bailey, you seem to have used a few. Maybe you can help me? :)

My first choice would be the hama mount because It allows a better angle of view both mounted from either the front or the rear facing foward. The fixed mount has a restricted level of movement and is usually mounted in the rear and if you view RSO's video you can see that the rear view mirror blocks part of the view which I find undersirable for shooting footage. I want to add that the hama mount has a weak suction cup thou and I have modified mine with a powergrip vacuum suction cup.

http://www.powrgrip.com/cgi-bin/powrgrip/how_they_work.html

If you are planning on using the cam on the outside of the car any of the powergrip or filmtools mounts work great. We have used this on a gallardo at over 120 mph with out problems.

You can pm me if you have more questions