View Full Version : Detail on NSX Modified Single Turbo!
***A question was asked on NSXSC about details on the new turbo offered by NSX Modified for 5K installed. I spoke to Larry and got the lowdown. He approved my posting of this information on the forum. I figured this is important info so I wanted to post it here as well. ***
OK, you're going to love me for this info. Just spoke to Larry and got the lowdown.
The turbo runs 6lbs of boost and puts out 365 rear wheel HP. He has the dyno sheet.
He feels this as high as you can go while maintaining reliability. They ran it at 9lbs of boost and he said it felt unsafe for the stock motor.
He mentioned some things about RC injectors, split second timing retardation, map sensors, Vortech Super FMU, nothing I could convey reliably. You guys will just have to come to the next meeting to see for yourself. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
Here is the REAL NEWS! They already have a built NSX motor running 14.5lbs of boost and putting out 565 rear wheel HP with a water to air intercooler. Reinforced w/ some kind of metal sleeves (???), different compression (9:1), rods, etc...
He says this setup will work with either blower, SC or turbo. Apparently, Doug will appreciate the power so he can run with the crazy Porsches on the straights.
All of this info is from his mouth just 5 minutes ago. He has the cars and will be showing it at the next meeting.
***I think David would know more about this than anyone else here as he already has done something similar and is running that kind of power. I'm sure the reinforcement is very expensive and only for those with a lot of money. In any case, wanted to post this info for everyone. I'm sure we will know much more after the next meeting which I think is 1 week before NSXPO.***
Ilya,
Is there any way that we could have Larry with or without the car attend our CalCoastalNSX meeting on Oct. 18th in Calabasas? This is one week later than Alex's meeting in San Diego. I have left Larry a message, but he hasn't returned my call http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/frown.gif . I'm very interested(as others are) in finding out more info. This is a topic that would be a great addition to our meeting. Hope to hear from Larry soon. John.
Hi John. You make it sound like he actually checks all his voice mails. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
You were lucky you could leave one at all since the box is usually maxed out. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I talked to him about this today and he said he wanted to go to the next meeting. He said he could bring the NSX w/ the setup. I didn't mention anything to you yet because there was talk about the Vortech guys coming first, so I figured he would do the next one. I think Larry knows something about that as well as he did the first one-off w/ a Vortech some time ago. It was at his shop at a meeting a few months ago when he did the SC discussion. The piping was all chrome and it looked pretty cool.
Anyway, keep me updated on who the guest will be for that meeting. If you want me to confirm with Larry for our next meeting, I can do that as he is willing to come.
[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 04 October 2001).]
Hey ilYa, what type of turbo is he using? Does it require tapping into the engine to get the oil or does it have external oil reservoir? Not that I'll get it but just curious. I think Bell kit uses aerodyne which doesn't require oil feed, right?
I wish I knew more, but I don't. Only what I managed to remember while talking to him earlier today. After the next meeting, I'm sure many of us will have all the details to share with everyone.
jsottile
10-04-2001, 01:26
I have a question concerning reliability and why Comptech and this new turbo kit don't address this particular issue. I also have a Camaro (easy to mod for big HP) and the Camaro community does a ton a supercharger/turbo installs. For maximum realibility we NEVER use timing retards done through an ignition box or NEVER use an FMU. Every unit is professional tunned by programming the computer for the specific fuel and timming needs at each RPM interval. This is the only way to combat any issues of detonation and assures maximum reliabilty. Also every car is different and every car has different mods, so the tunning is perfect when tunned by burning chips, etc. I was wondering why this type of tunning isn't done with the NSX's considering most of the turbo and supercharger installs are professional done. The main reason mechanical units like FMUs and BTM are used, is because not everybody has the knowledge and equipment to program the computer. However there is no comparsion when using FMUs to specifically tunning each car's computer. More horsepower is always found using this method too. I believe GruppeM uses a more advanced tunning system or the other option would be to use a Motec, etc. Any comments? I thought it was a valid point because everyone is worried about reliability and this issue is what reliability is all about.
I think that's an excellent point and a great question to ask Larry at the next meeting. From what I know having been at his shop for many hours, is that he tunes everything himself. He does not believe in chips and does not use them. He personally tuned my NOS setup, Alex's Gruppe M, Doug's SC, and many others I'm sure. When he says he uses fuel management and a Vortech Super FMU, they are both fully tunable and adjustable units. He made many adjustments to my Vortec FMU before we were done. If anything, he has been the guy to tune other aftermarket products like the Comptech SC to produce more power w/ fuel management.
His words to me when I started the NOS kit where "Turbos, Superchargers and even NOS are not necessarily bolt-ons, they are projects. It's not installed once and left alone. It's something you are constantly tuning, adjusting and improving. Think of the setup as the first step in a project."
He is very much into individual tuning and setup. He personally adjusts and tests eveyrthing and does not use aftermarket chips. The one thing I expect from him and the setup is that he will spend a large amount of time tuning MY car and perfecting it. That is... once I've saved up a bit more and can afford it. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 04 October 2001).]
GruppeMUSA
10-04-2001, 02:38
Jeff has a good point. That is one of the reasons the Gruppe M SC kit costs as much as it does, is because of all hours spent during the R&D and tuning of the EPROM.
The factory ECU is limited though, in its programming capabilities, and does not have enough "points" and range to adjust the different parameters by itself to allow for proper and safe performance in a forced induction situation, and that is why there are a couple of piggyback computer modules included in the kit, that splice into the ECU wiring (done through adapters, no cutting involved) to extend those capabilities enough to make any ECU tuning more responsive.
I had achieved the 365-370 RWHP with the STOCK fuel regulator, and was done through ECU programming with 6.5 pounds of boost, unintercooled.
These inexpensive forced induction systems by Larry and a couple of other people will probably get the job done, but in my experience, those mechanical FMUs used to "tune" these systems are unreliable and inconsistent at best in my experience.
JMO, ICBW.
Alex
chudson1549
10-04-2001, 10:23
Originally posted by GruppeMUSA:
These inexpensive forced induction systems by Larry and a couple of other people will probably get the job done, but in my experience, those mechanical FMUs used to "tune" these systems are unreliable and inconsistent at best in my experience.
Alex
Since, I cannot bring my car over to the all of the west coast gurus living here on the east coast, reliability is one thing that is most important to me. I would like the single turbo unit setup on my car. So, my question. Can the ECU componets that "piggyback" the the stock unit from the Gruppe or another aftermarket source be used on NSXmodifieds setup to manage the upgrade? This is to setup and somewhat forget about it type of install. I love doing the work on my car, but with something like this I would trust it to the pros.
John, Maybe this next Cal Coastal meeting can be about Forced Induction SC&TC.
Can we have Both guests and Both cars? or would that take too much time?
I definetly agree with Ilya, its all about the tuning. I just had my CT tuned and they were able to put down about another 20 hp to the wheels, clean up the power band, and place the car in a safer range.
John & Ilya, I'll call the Vortech guys today to confirm the meeting on the 18th.
jsottile
10-04-2001, 12:34
I wish there was a way you guys could document or tape these meetings, etc. It is such a disadvantage being on the East Coast and missing out on all these events. Also for the guy from SC, remember Mark Bausch can fly to your house to install GruppeM and Comptech superchargers. However, I just wish we could have our cars dyno tunned throughout the entire RPM band for maximum tunning using "piggy backs" or stand alones. I would pay the extra money to ensure the car is running perfect and that the most power is being derived from the mods. If I had to pick one unit right now for max reliability, it would for sure be the GruppeM unit for the extensive look into this matter.
Alex is right in that you get what you pay for. This 5K setup will be the first step for me. Once installed and I save up some more, I will slowly improve the electronics and tuning one step at a time as I can afford to do so. All of these new kits are definitely a 'cheaper' solution for those of us who can not afford it or do not want to spend 10K all at once.
Originally posted by jsottile:
... More horsepower is always found using this method too...
Actually, that's the bigger issue. With care you can get the simpler solutions to be entirely reliable up to the practical HP limits of a stock bottom end, it's just that they are likely to run fat (rich) under various loads and rev ranges if you want to ensure that they don't ever run lean (the dangerous part).
The problem with augmenting fuel delivery relative to boost and/or RPM as is done with variable fuel pressure regulators and auxiliary injection systems is that it leaves out the critical element of air flow metering. But as noted by others, the stock ECU (especially on early models) can't be modified to handle forced induction, which is why David and some others have spent $3k+ on complete engine management units to replace many of the ECUs functions. But besides the cost, they are anything but simple to dial in correctly.
I’d certainly like a better solution than the variable FPR and Greddy Rebic IV I’m currently using.
As for how some other cars are done, besides being simpler to change the ECU, they rarely start with the compression or timing of the NSX.
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 04 October 2001).]
Andrie Hartanto
10-04-2001, 19:44
There is a local guy here who also has a single turbo setup. With a big ass intercooler and scoop. He custom build all by himself. Very impressive and first rate quality.
http://www.streetracing.org/events/showdown/092901/page1/dsc02258.jpg
http://www.streetracing.org/events/showdown/092901/page1/dsc02260.jpg
http://www.streetracing.org/events/showdown/092901/page1/dsc02259.jpg
AWESOME CAR!!! Know who's it is? Is he in the club or on the forums?
I think this is a match. man he's done some cool stuff!
Gerry Johnson
Cool Newbie
Posts: 10
From: Modesto,CA. USA
Registered: Aug 2001
posted August 12, 2001 08:20 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am the owner of a 1992 black NSX.Last year I totaly rebuilt the engine using all the best parts available, I ported the heads and raised the boost up to 13lbs. It has a Haltech F9-8 Fuel Management System,JE 9.5:1 Pistons,Comptech block gaurds,DC Sports ceramic coated headers,HKS blow off valve,Nippondenso race pump,RC 550cc injectors,NSX-R ring and pinion,NSX-R close ratio transmission,Clutch Masters stage 3 clutch,Axis Metal Master brake pads,DC carbon fiber strut brace,Goodridge steel braided lines,Ground Control adjustable suspension,Koni adjustable shock absorbers,Pirelli P-Zero Tires 225/35-ZR18 (front) Pirelli P-Zero 275/30-ZR19 (rear),Power Stop cross drilled rotors,Suspension Techniques anti-sway bars,Work Equip Wheels 18"x8"(front)19"x10"(rear),Custom sealed beam headlights, Wings West body kit,Sparco seats, Momo Formula one carbon fiber steering wheel and shift knob,Mugen steering wheel adapter,Dali Racing raison hood,Custom roof scoop into a custom lexan rear hatch forcing the incoming air threw an Apex inter-cooler.The car dyno'd at 470 HP at the wheels, and has not been fine tuned yet.This is the most modified NSX that is street driven daily that I know about, if any one knows of any highly modified NSX's let me know. Thank you, Gerry. (NSXPOWR)
tuff.
Andrie Hartanto
10-04-2001, 23:04
Yep, it is Gerry Johnson's
However, I think the description posted was the old one when he uses bell TT kit with upgraded turbo.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ilya:
[B]Hi John. You make it sound like he actually checks all his voice mails. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
You were lucky you could leave one at all since the box is usually maxed out. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I talked to him about this today and he said he wanted to go to the next meeting. He said he could bring the NSX w/ the setup. I didn't mention anything to you yet because there was talk about the Vortech guys coming first, so I figured he would do the next one. I think Larry knows something about that as well as he did the first one-off w/ a Vortech some time ago. It was at his shop at a meeting a few months ago when he did the SC discussion. The piping was all chrome and it looked pretty cool.
Anyway, keep me updated on who the guest will be for that meeting. If you want me to confirm with Larry for our next meeting, I can do that as he is willing to come.
Ilya and Family,
I spoke with Larry @ NSX Modified today with some good news! Larry and the modified NSX will be attending the CalCoastalNSX meeting in Calabasas on Oct. 18th. at 7:30p.m.!!!!
The details I can give(and there are many) are: Test drives will be available, the car has already been driven modified for 3 years and you can get one too!(the turbo that is)
Our meeting on Nov. 15th will also have a special guest speaker if all the plans workout.
Here's the club info.
Post message: CalCoastalNSX@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: CalCoastalNSX-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe:
CalCoastalNSX-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
List owner: CalCoastalNSX-owner@yahoogroups.com
Check out the homepage for more info: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CalCoastalNSX
[This message has been edited by ANYTIME (edited 06 October 2001).]
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jsottile:
[B]I wish there was a way you guys could document or tape these meetings, etc. It is such a disadvantage being on the East Coast and missing out on all these events.
As of the Oct. 18th meeting, there will be minutes taken(maybe audio later,maybe not).
A website for our group is something I'm thinking about, and this would be a good place to post the minutes and pics. Need to find an inexpensive host since I would be paying out of pocket for this.
???? Hey John, I'm confused. I though he was bringing the new turbocharged car. Is he bringing George's Vortec instead??? You mentioned supercharger.
Andrie Hartanto
10-05-2001, 13:39
Is this George's car?
http://www.rev-mag.com/nsxsupertopsm.jpg
full article can be found:
http://www.rev-mag.com/acuransx.htm
jsottile
10-05-2001, 13:49
That is amazing!!!!! What a clean install using Vortech's water cooler. Amazing, I wish the new Vortech kit would mount the same way with the same piping. Amazing.
Originally posted by jsottile:
That is amazing!!!!! What a clean install using Vortech's water cooler. Amazing, I wish the new Vortech kit would mount the same way with the same piping. Amazing.
Finally, an intercooled SC? I still prefer a turbo, but this would narrow the gap.
OK... NOW I"M TOTALLY OFF MY ROCKER!!!!!!!
Yes, that looks just like his Vortec except for one thing.
When I saw his car about 6 months ago at NSX Modified, IT WAS WHITE!
This truly is the twilight zone. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
That looks great! Does anyone know how high it sits?
NSXMODIFIED
10-05-2001, 23:33
We will be coming to the CalCoastalNSX meeting with one of the turbo cars provided everything goes as planned. For those who are on the East Coast/or out of state who are interested in the Turbo Kit, our current policy is that we will not sell the kit only(this policy may change in the future). Installations must be done by us, due to quality assurance. Prior arrangements can be made for group purchases(at least 3 people) and we will fly out to do the installs. Pricing and options will be released once we have established everything. Thank you for your interest. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
[This message has been edited by NSXMODIFIED (edited 05 October 2001).]
Jason Weaver
10-06-2001, 00:01
Guys, I don't know about you, but I am excited about all these new setups coming out! I am saving my pennies everyday. We east coast guys need to be in contact, and figure out if we do decide to go with whatever works best for us or whatever arises in terms of superchargers or turbos, so we can figure out group buys, installs, etc. Just wanted to send out a generic post to see if anyone was thinking along the same lines and again how excited I am about the new advances! Talk to you guys soon.
------------------
Jason
Originally posted by Jason Weaver:
Guys, I don't know about you, but I am excited about all these new setups coming out! I am saving my pennies everyday. We east coast guys need to be in contact, and figure out if we do decide to go with whatever works best for us or whatever arises in terms of superchargers or turbos, so we can figure out group buys, installs, etc. Just wanted to send out a generic post to see if anyone was thinking along the same lines and again how excited I am about the new advances! Talk to you guys soon.
I'm with you on the group buy.
[This message has been edited by SNDSOUL (edited 07 October 2001).]
chudson1549
10-08-2001, 10:58
Originally posted by Jason Weaver:
Guys, I don't know about you, but I am excited about all these new setups coming out! I am saving my pennies everyday. We east coast guys need to be in contact, and figure out if we do decide to go with whatever works best for us or whatever arises in terms of superchargers or turbos, so we can figure out group buys, installs, etc. Just wanted to send out a generic post to see if anyone was thinking along the same lines and again how excited I am about the new advances! Talk to you guys soon.
Jason, Sndsoul, and me that makes three that are very interested. Count me in.
are any of these cool cars making it up to NSXPO in Elkhart Lake next week?
If there's anyplace that this type of muscle (OK torque) can really be showcased, its Road America (high speed 4+ mile roadcourse with 3 LONG straightaways)
Dyno shmyno... proof is on putting the power down in the real world.
With a single turbo running only 6lbs of boost, what would the milage limitation be before you'd want to rebuild the engine with new rings and seals?
My NSX has 110k miles on it and it RUNS GREAT!
-Electro
SpeedDemon
10-08-2001, 17:40
Originally posted by Electro:
With a single turbo running only 6lbs of boost, what would the milage limitation be before you'd want to rebuild the engine with new rings and seals? My NSX has 110k miles on it...
It's really not a question of if it's a turbo or a supercharger, or what psi is being run.. It really just boils down to the amount of added power that the stock engine can take (given its condition).
"Only 6psi" could turn out to make too much power on one (efficient, intercooled) setup, or could be not nearly as much power on a less-efficient setup (especially if it lacks an intercooler).
I know this doesn't directly answer your question... But if there's someone who has a high-mileage engine that's running an SC setup, I thought I'd point out that it would probably be a good datapoint for you even though they might not have a turbo or necessarily be at 6psi. It's the power they're churning out that counts.
Best,
Marc
97 NSX-T TT
Being a single turbo setup, I am assuming the turbo is larger than those used on twin turbo setups. As such, I am wondering what kind of turbo lag this kit will have and its effects on streetability.
I could be wrong, but it appears that this kit has been designed with track use in mind so that the higher hp potential of a larger, single turbo wins over a smaller twin turbo setup.
I would imagine that for street driving a twin turbo setup would be better... though Larry may have very well worked his magic into this kit such that lag is not a major factor.
Originally posted by SpeedDemon:
It's really not a question of if it's a turbo or a supercharger, or what psi is being run.. It really just boils down to the amount of added power that the stock engine can take (given its condition).
"Only 6psi" could turn out to make too much power on one (efficient, intercooled) setup, or could be not nearly as much power on a less-efficient setup (especially if it lacks an intercooler).
I know this doesn't directly answer your question... But if there's someone who has a high-mileage engine that's running an SC setup, I thought I'd point out that it would probably be a good datapoint for you even though they might not have a turbo or necessarily be at 6psi. It's the power they're churning out that counts.
Best,
Marc
97 NSX-T TT
Marc, Well the kit that's mentioned above includes an intercooler right? My question is though, the maximum amount of power a 6psi setup could run with an intercooler would be a stable setup for a car with over 110k miles? The engine in my car runs VERY strong... When I had the oil pan gasket replaced I had to take off the exhaust pipe that runs underneath the engine... so I was able to easily inspect the Oxygen sensor... VERY very clean... and the insides of the exhaust manifolds were spotless... along with the oil pan and oil pick-up element...
I'm sure after a while, it wouldn't be a bad idea to rebuild the engine with gaskets, seals and rings... but I wouldn't want to do that for a while...
Which turbo kit was it that has an electric motor that pre-spools up the turbo to reduce lag?
I'm very interested in this setup!
-Electro
Originally posted by 8000RPM:
... I could be wrong, but it appears that this kit has been designed with track use in mind so that the higher hp potential of a larger, single turbo wins over a smaller twin turbo setup.
Given a stock bottom end, both can be tuned to produce the maximum safe HP. With larger twins, there is no reason a TT could not produce as much as you like. The real difference is that the small Aerodynes have the variable vane technology and therefore spool up faster. The other difference is cost. The Aerodynes are around $1700 each. When all is said and done, a single turbo can be made to work very well and need not be significantly slower to get boost than a TT.
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 08 October 2001).]
I don't think the 5K installed setup includes an intercooler.
Originally posted by ilya:
I don't think the 5K installed setup includes an intercooler.
I hope you are mistaken. I wouldn't touch it without one.
Actually, I'm pretty sure of it. That doesn't stop anyone from purchasing one and having him install that as well. His higher HP turbo that puts out over 500HP uses an intercooler. According to him, the cheaper setup produces plenty of power without it.
Once again, I'm no expert, just a messenger since I talk to him on a regular basis. I think that question will be answered next week at the meeting. I'm looking forward to it.
Originally posted by chudson1549:
Jason, Sndsoul, and me that makes three that are very interested. Count me in.
Please add another seriously interested in being a part of a group buy.
I hope to see a full write up and photos of this event for those of us on the far east coast that cant make it!! *HINT HINT!* http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
I too am interested in the group buy... the more the better!!
-Electro
I already have a disposbale w/ 27 exposures ready to go in the car. I believe we will be taping minutes as well.
No intercooler and uncertain fuel management explain why he can talk about ~$5k installed, but now it doesn't sound like a bargain anymore. Far from it, unless you compare to most SC options.
Small change in plans. He will be unveiling the turbo this Thursday at the monthly meeting at NSX Modified. Expect lots of pics and minutes on Friday morning.
I will make sure to note the exact fuel management system being and as many details as I can get. I will also try to bring a small tape recorder. Expect lots of pictures and info this Friday.
Some people are missing the point that this a custom system. The reson Larry is using a no frills approach to the fuel management is because many of his customers do not want to spend any time tuning or playing with the system. They want to start the car, have it always work, and never think about it again like the Comptech SC. His base system is designed around that plug and play premise. He said that he started with an HKS system and then decided against it for this reason.
Anyone is welcome to use ANY fuel management system they desire, and he will tune it. He has tuned various turbos on the NSX with almost every system you can think of. If you want a $7800 Motec system, be his guest and buy one. He will tune that baby like there is no tomorrow.
My point is that some of you are nitpicking and saying, well he doesn't have A,B,C and D and he should. I wish I could give more info, but I'm not knowledgeable enough in that area to do so. Everything of what it might or might not have or do is speculation until someone (I) can post the final details on Friday after the meeting. It may very well have many things we were not expecting. Also expect charts, even for the 550+HP version.
And remember, anything it does not have, does not mean it can not be added. If you are unhappy with the simple approach, and want the FULL DEAL, pay the extra few hundred dollars for what you want and give it to him to use as part of your setup.
There are and will be customers who opt for this approach.
Having spent lots of time at his shop, I have seen too many various custom turbo setups to mention. They were all different depending on what that particular customer wanted.
This cheaper alternative was an answer to all of us who were complaining (including myself) about the ridiculous cost of turbo or supercharging. He has come out with a system that I expect to be reliable, with a quality turbo, that will put out 360HP to the wheels. It will be a plug and play setup similar to the Comptech SC that requires no further tuning and hassle if the customer chooses. This was his goal for a reason as this is what many of his customers ask for. For those of us who want more, I'm sure he can provide it. His proof of more will come in the other engine he will be showcasing that night that is pushing 550+ w/ charts to back it up. I will have pics. Believe me I will have pics. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
I have used Larry for some time and love his work. Because he is so busy and rarely posts, I took it upon myself to try and post some information about this kit that many of us have been waiting for.
Everyone has the right to support or find fault in what he is doing, but lets please wait until we actually have firm details first. We can't judge any of the setup as questionable until we actually know the details of what he is doing. He is an awesome tuner and I am sure he has an explanation for everyone's concerns.
I definetly think modular is the way to go. That way you can do it in stages if you dont have the cash flow. This is very similar to that of the Vortech setups. Various stages that scale up in price/hp.
Ken
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ilya:
[B]Small change in plans. He will be unveiling the turbo this Thursday at the monthly meeting at NSX Modified.
Larry will still be attending the CalCoastalNSX meeting in Calabasas on the 18th. For those who cannot make it to Huntington Beach can come to Calabasas, just a week later.
Red Robin
24005 Calabasas Rd.
Calabasas,Ca.
(818)223-8112.
7:30 p.m.
Regards,
John Richards
(805)650-0000
Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound like he was showing it there, but not at the other meeting. He will still be going to the following meeting in Calabasas.
I meant to say that since he is showing it this Thursday, I can have details up for everyone this Friday. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
I'll be there at the meeting in Calabasas as well. Maybe our waitress will want another ride in my NSX. http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by ilya (edited 10 October 2001).]
Is the meeting tomorrow (Thursday) an open invitation? If so, can someone please tell me what time everything starts and what the address is to Larry's shop?
Thanks in advance.
Originally posted by netNSX:
I definetly think modular is the way to go... Ken
Well, yes and no. If you want to be able to add things like an intercooler and auxiliary injectors later, you need to build the base plumbing and placement of components accordingly, as well as selecting a turbo that will work well for the lesser configuration and still be adequate for the higher levels. That means careful design and at least some degree of compromise somewhere.
However, I can't conceive of a good reason to leave out an intercooler under any circumstances. Compared to the rest of the system it is cheap HP and safety margin.
sjs,
I completely agree with you. From what I hear the Vortech system is going to be staged with a base system w/ aftercooler, the upgraded system with complete exhaust system from the headers out, and the complete set-up with tuning and some other add ons.
Ken
As far as placement of the intercooler on a turbo setup, would the only practical place be right on top for say the air scoop that can be installed? Where else can you easily put an intercooler and it still get good air flow to cool the air inside it?
-Electro
A common intercooler location is down by the wheels where they get the air flowing under the car and into the wheel wells.
***Is the meeting tomorrow (Thursday) an open invitation? If so, can someone please tell me what time everything starts and what the address is to Larry's shop?***
I'm positive that you are welcome to come. You can't expect someone to join a club before they've even had a chance to meet some people and see what we do.
The meeting is at 7:30pm Thursday and you can get address and info at www.nsxmodified.com (http://www.nsxmodified.com)
SpeedDemon
10-11-2001, 16:02
Originally posted by Lud:
A common intercooler location is down by the wheels where they get the air flowing under the car and into the wheel wells.
Yep - that's the location where my intercoolers are (behind each rear wheel).
Lud (or anyone else) - Is it really a decent airflow location in practice for the NSX? I've heard that (in theory) the rear wheel well is a high-pressure location and could push air through the intercooler (a good thing), but.. It just seems so tight in there, with the I/C so near the rear tire.. It's hard to imagine much air flowing through.. ?
As far as intercoolers and air temps go in general.. This truly makes a noticeable difference in performance. With the cooler air temps we're having in L.A. right now.. When I first get on the gas with cold I/C's.. The power is very noticeably stronger than compared to warmer days and/or a heated-up intercooler..
I am really enjoying the car getting sideways when getting into the gas (and the clutch is already engaged). http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif Brings a grin to my face ever time. If only I knew of a big safe parking lot area away from probing eyes, I would love to let loose on the gas in first gear and turn the steering wheel http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
Marc
I know that in some cases, while doing some drag racing or other short run competitive races that you can sit bags of ice on your intercoolers to super cool the air... I'm sure the only way you'd be able to do that is if the intercooler is on top with the air scoop built into a lexan hatch....
I'm sure the ice would make a huge difference!
What about this though... Couldn't you rig up some sort of freon cooled intercooler? That would probably require the A/C system to have another condenser near the intercooler... could be a self contained unit. That would be pretty cool
-Electro
Originally posted by Electro:
As far as placement of the intercooler on a turbo setup, would the only practical place be right on top for say the air scoop that can be installed? Where else can you easily put an intercooler and it still get good air flow to cool the air inside it? -Electro
Another option is a water cooled IC which does not require airflow on it. Then the water used by it is cooled by a separate "radiator". Call it and air to water to air system. Engine coolant could be used but it's already pretty hot, so a separate system and pump is better. I’ve been considering this as a possible future upgrade experiment to replace my two small air to air units.
nsxbadboy
10-11-2001, 22:56
You could always spray nitrous on it.
Joe
Originally posted by nsxbadboy:
You could always spray nitrous on it.
Joe
nitrous express makes a kit to do this from which they claim a 30-50 hp increase at the wheels. wonder how accurate they are.
Originally posted by nsxbadboy:
You could always spray nitrous on it.
Joe
Actually, I've considered using my Aquamist water injection to spray a fine mist of 50/50 water & methanol over the fins. I would use a master switch in the car plus an intake air temperature sensor at the exit of each cooler. (There is already a suitable fitting on them) So many ideas, so little time.
Originally posted by SpeedDemon:
Yep - that's the location where my intercoolers are (behind each rear wheel).
Lud (or anyone else) - Is it really a decent airflow location in practice for the NSX? I've heard that (in theory)
Marc - Without some serious aerodynamic testing or modeling anything you hear is just theory. I don't think anyone outside Honda has serious data on air flow at that part of the car. That being said, it is my opinion that airflow is probably decent in that area, but not as good as if they were in a direct airstream (as on most front-engine intercooled turbo setups).
Originally posted by Lud:
Marc - Without some serious aerodynamic testing or modeling anything you hear is just theory. I don't think anyone outside Honda has serious data on air flow at that part of the car. That being said, it is my opinion that airflow is probably decent in that area, but not as good as if they were in a direct airstream (as on most front-engine intercooled turbo setups).
Seems to me you could get at least an indication from a simple air speed indicator mounted back there for a while. Anyone with access to used small aircraft parts?
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