View Full Version : WAXING
First of all, thanks for all of the advice regarding the RX7 vs. NSX. I haven't made up my mind, but for sure, I'll keep you all posted throughout. I'm on the NSX website because I'm an enthusiast and eventual owner and I think you for your welcoming me into the forums.
Question - waxing. I've read the technical discussions on it, but it's too democratic and fair-based (as if not too hurt a particular manufacturers feelings - understandable) - however, what and HOW should a brand new car be waxed for the first time - in explicit detail to get the car to shine as if brand spanking new. One of the things I see alot is the fine scratches in the clear coat. I know you guys baby your cars, but I need some advice on how to approach waxing the NSX as to not at all hurt the paint. Thanks in advance for all your time with this.
I would highly recommend using Zaino.
You can learn all about their various products and read about the procedure here...
http://www.zainobros.com/
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
Michigan NSX
05-16-2002, 00:55
I highly recommend the Griot's Garage system using a machine polishing/wax system. I have had excellent results first with my '93 MR2 Turbo (red paint polished up like new) and with my '91 Black NSX. It uses a random orbital polishing machine (not high speed) so you won't "burn" your paint. You can find more info on their system here (http://www.griotsgarage.com/catalog.jsp?&SKU=11119).
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'91 Black/Black
I assume you're talking about a used car.
Assuming the paint isn't atrocious, here are the steps you will want to use:
1. Wash the car.
2. Use a good clay product to remove surface impurities. Most brands of detailing products include a clay product in their lineup. I've heard from knowledgeable folks that Clay Magic (http://www.readyshopgo.com/areas/emmons/shopDetails.cfm?p=5458&cat=12) is the best.
http://www.readyshopgo.com/areas/emmons/pictures/222/claymagic.jpg
3. If there are any visible scratches or swirl marks, smooth them down with a good product designed for this purpose, such as Meguiar's #9 Swirl Mark Remover (http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showproducts_template.cfm?SrcLine=PP&SrcCat=3).
http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/product_m09.gif
4. Use a cleansing product such as Zymol HD-Cleanse (http://www.zymol.com/hd2.htm) to remove oxidation and light tar and acid rain deposits.
http://www.zymol.com/hdclean.gif
5. Finish the exterior with a protectant such as a carnauba-based wax. Zymol custom-designed their NSX wax for the NSX finish. However, due to its 51 percent carnauba content, it's not the easiest to apply and it's not cheap. Almost as good, and much easier to work with, is Zymol Japon (http://www.zymol.com/crecar2.htm).
http://www.zymol.com/waxpr.gif
6. For the interior surfaces that are leather, use a good leather conditioner such as Zymol Treat (http://www.zymol.com/treat2.htm).
http://www.zymol.com/_borders/treat.jpg
7. For the interior surfaces that are vinyl and plastic, use a product for this purpose, such as Zymol Vinyl (http://www.zymol.com/vinyl2.htm), which leaves a nice satin sheen.
http://www.zymol.com/_borders/vinyl.jpg
Check the FAQ here (http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/General/LeatherVinyl.htm) if you're not sure which interior parts are vinyl and which are leather. (It's not easy to tell by looking at them.)
This may sound like a lot of work, but this is the procedure to use to restore your car to show condition. Once you do so, you won't have to do the Clay Magic, Swirl Mark Remover, or HD-Cleanse again for a long time - maybe once a year and/or only when you feel it's needed.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 16 May 2002).]
Very infomrative post!
Complete with visual aids!
Michigan NSX
05-16-2002, 01:14
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
...Assuming the paint isn't atrocious, here are the steps you will want to use...
Good overall advice once again from nsxtasy. I havent't used the Mother's or the Zymol products (because I have been happy with Griot's Garage - see above) but would like to point out that Griot's Garage also has and recommends a clay paint cleaner.
I have heard good things about Mother's and Zymol.
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'91 Black/Black
[This message has been edited by Michigan NSX (edited 16 May 2002).]
Added note - I think what's most important is the procedure you use, rather than the brands. For example, if I had to choose between, say, (a) going through all the steps above but using all Meguiar's or Griot Garage products, vs (b) skipping steps 2 through 4 and using Zymol NSX wax, I would choose (a). IOW, I think you're better off doing all the steps even if you're using a different brand of products from that specified above.
nsxxtreme
05-16-2002, 01:49
Originally posted by Jimbo:
I would highly recommend using Zaino.
You can learn all about their various products and read about the procedure here...
http://www.zainobros.com/
-Jim
I would have to second this. I asked this question some time back. I am now a happy Zaino user.
Soichiro
05-16-2002, 10:44
I second nsxtasy's advice, both the types of products to use and the fact that they system is more important than any one brand of product. Another solution would be to pay a detailer to power-buff your car for you. This will restore it to new condition and you can maintain it (as nsxtasy points out) more easily once it's shiny. This should cost about $2-300 and will save you several hours of work.
Michigan NSX
05-16-2002, 12:10
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Added note - I think what's most important is the procedure you use, rather than the brands....above.
Agreed!
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'91 Black/Black
Larry Bastanza
05-16-2002, 12:32
I have to agree with all the above advice, especially in regard to the "system". I have a Blk/Blk which we all know can be a real challange. I happen to use the Meguiars system. It is 5 steps:
Gold Class Car Shampoo, w/Chenille(sp?) sponge
Cleaner and Clear Coat Prep
#9 Swirl Remover
#2 Polish
#26 Professional Yellow Wax
I have had many folks with Black NSX's complement me about the car, and say "How do you get it to look like that?" The key for me is the #2 Polish. It gives the car the "wet" look, all the time.
In addition, probably the most important thing is HOW you wash, to keep the swirl's/scratches from returning. It's very simple, use two buckets, a soap bucket and a rinse bucket. NEVER take the sponge off the car and go to the soap bucket, go to the rinse first, to insure no contaminants get into the soap. This is the MAIN cause for swirls, IMO.
It took me a full year of owning this Black car to figure this out, plus the help of NSXPrime that explained all this in detail, under the "Detailing Section" of the FAQ.
I used to get so frustrated when I would wash the car and it was all swirled up when I was done. I used to think I had to detail it EVERY time I washed it, No more!! I usually go through this "detailing" process once every spring, then wash carefully and wax a few times over the summer.
BTW, The "chenille" sponge is a sponge covered with a kind of "shag" material. You can get them at Target for about $3.
ALL OF THIS IS DONE IN THE SHADE, ALWAYS.
Regardless of what system you use, the techniques all apply. I am not pro/con to any system in particular, since I have seem really nice work done with most systems available. I will say that the general comments in regard to Mequiars and that is a little easier then other systems, if you are not a pro detailer.
Also, to be safe I use an orbital buffer. It takes a little longer, but it is completely safe.
HTH,
LarryB
Two more points to avoid swirls. Remember, swirls are usually caused by minute particles of dirt getting rubbed/swept across the finish. They can happen in a lot of ways; the wash rag is only one of them.
1. Be careful what you use as an applicator, for washing the car as well as for applying the polishes and waxes etc. Cotton is very soft. I use 100 percent cotton detailing cloths. (A bag of 36 is $12 at Sam's Club.) Larry mentions a Chenille sponge. I'm not sure about his but some sponges are wrapped in shag that is all cotton, and all cotton is good. Others contain polyester on the surface, which is not as gentle as cotton. I prefer the detailing towels because I think they are less likely to hold dirt in the weave than a thick shag on a sponge; just my O.
2. Don't let anything touch your car's finish except for soft cloths (detailing cloths or the soft side of a car cover). All you need to do is to set something down on top of your finish once (like before you get in the car or when you're about to put it in the trunk) and it may slide just enough to leave scratches there.
Great advice on this. Question though - what if this is the VERY FIRST wash and wax on a BRAND NEW car? Do all the steps such as swirl removing need to be done, or do I do a straight wash and wax?
Originally posted by SUPO:
Great advice on this. Question though - what if this is the VERY FIRST wash and wax on a BRAND NEW car? Do all the steps such as swirl removing need to be done, or do I do a straight wash and wax?
On a new car, I would skip the swirl remover and the clay. I would still cleanse, though. For the cleansing, you could use the HD-Cleanse, or you might consider a product designed for new car finishes, such as Meguiar's #5 New Car Glaze (http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showproducts_template.cfm?SrcLine=PP&SrcCat=3).
http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/product_m05.gif
Thanks NSXtacy - except could you reorganize this information - I'm getting confused with the details from the other posts. For a new car - first wax - what are the procedure in steps? I don't want to create swirl marks or damage clear coat. And, is Maguires easier as the previous post said, or should I stick with your previous recommendations.
Larry Bastanza
05-16-2002, 15:54
Ken,
The Chenille sponge I was talking about is 100% cotton. I agree with you totally about cotton only, and that is what led me to try this product.
Oh, one part I left out. There are actually 6 steps. After you are all done spray the car with "Quik Detailer" from Mequiars and wipe off with a clean cotton detail towel. This same product also comes in gallons and it is called "Final Inspection". Excellent results. After the first small bottle, you WILL buy a gallon!!
After the annual detail, when I only wash the car, I use this spray after every wash and it looks like I spent all day on the car. My complete wash routine takes about 1.5 hours.
HTH,
LarryB
http://www.nsxsc.com/html/body_article10.html
There's a good comparison between Zymol and Zaino over at NSXSC.
I view Zaino kind of like using a quality synthethic oil...Better protection and better performance. Doesn't soften or melt in hot weather... Lasts forever....Has a killer shine!
I also like Zaino because it's so easy to apply and remove.
As far as a new car and the first treatment, I would recommend using the following procedure...
1. Wash the car.
2. Clay - to remove contaminants.
3. Apply ZFX and Z5 (or Z2)
4. Use Z6 Enhancer spray afterwards as needed.
There's also a great section on tips and hints on the Zaino site...
http://www.zainobros.com/files/tips.htm
I think you'll find on both NSX Prime and NSXSC there's a lot of NSXers discovering that synthethic is the way to go!
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords
ZAINO!
http://www.evantageone.com/nsx/Images/LftSide1-50.JPG
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'00 Candy Apple Blue / Black, #264
My Card (http://www.123EZCard.com/c.asp?rick)
My NSX (http://www.123EZCard.com/c.asp?mynsx)
My Legend (http://www.123EZCard.com/c.asp?mylegend)
[This message has been edited by tabasco (edited 16 May 2002).]
With my advice on what the PROCESS is, rather than the specific BRANDS to use, I was trying to avoid yet another confrontation raised by the usual Zaino zealots, who look for any and every opportunity to push sales.
For some of the steps, I truly believe that Zymol products are better than Zaino in many, many ways. (If you're interested in hearing why I say this, send me a private e-mail.) And there are still many members of NSXprime and nsxsc that also prefer Zymol over Zaino for these steps. For other steps, I've found that Clay Magic and Meguiar's products seem particularly well-suited. The bottom line is that you can get great results using Zymol products, and you can get great results using Meguiar's products or other brands too.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 17 May 2002).]
Forums Nazi
05-16-2002, 16:34
Do a search, please, and you can review all the previous arguments and nitpicking. Let's not go through it all over again.
Remember, the search is your friend.
Originally posted by Larry Bastanza:
After you are all done spray the car with "Quik Detailer" from Mequiars and wipe off with a clean cotton detail towel.
Why? It looks great as it is after the waxing step...
Thanks NSXtacy - except could you reorganize this information - I'm getting confused with the details from the other posts. For a new car - first wax - what are the procedure in steps? I don't want to create swirl marks or damage clear coat. And, is Maguires easier as the previous post said, or should I stick with your previous recommendations.
Originally posted by SUPO:
Thanks NSXtacy - except could you reorganize this information - I'm getting confused with the details from the other posts. For a new car - first wax - what are the procedure in steps? I don't want to create swirl marks or damage clear coat.
Simplified, here are my recommendations:
NEW CAR:
1. Wash.
2. Cleanse.
3. Wax.
4. Condition leather.
USED CAR:
1. Wash.
2. Clay.
3. Remove swirl marks (optional, if needed).
4. Cleanse.
5. Wax.
6. Condition leather.
7. Condition vinyl.
Originally posted by SUPO:
is Maguires easier as the previous post said, or should I stick with your previous recommendations.
I guess it depends on how picky you are, and how much trouble you want to go to to get the best products for the job - the ones that work the best as well as the ones that are easiest to use. I use a variety of products from different manufacturers, because I believe different products are best for different purposes, and no one brand is the best at everything. As you can see, some folks disagree, to the extent that the brand of detailing products you use becomes something akin to a religious cult. I still feel that the brand is not as important as the process, and you can use this same process with Zymol, Meguiar's, 3M, Zaino, or any other brand; each brand has its own product for each step of the way. And if you use this process, you'll find that any major brand will be pretty easy to use and give excellent results.
One advantage of Meguiar's is that it's sold in many auto parts stores; you can look up your local retailer on Meguiar's website here (http://www.meguiars.com/DealerLocator/DealerLocator_template.cfm?page_name=Meguiar's%20D ealer%20Locator). Zymol is sold in a small number of specialty shops which you can locate on their website here (http://www.zymol.com/wholesal.htm), or purchase directly from their website or by Internet or phone from a specialist such as Emmons Coachworks (http://www.emmonscoachworks.com), which carries a variety of brands. (Don't forget to join the NSX Club of America (http://www.nsxca.org) and use your member discount when you're buying from Zymol or Emmons.)
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 16 May 2002).]
Larry Bastanza
05-16-2002, 18:26
Ken,
Why the quik detailer? mmm... I guess I just like the "final" touch. It also has this great aroma. It says: "detailed" to me. Hey, we all have our quirks! http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
LarryB
Actually, I like the Meguiar's Quik Detailer (http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showproducts_template.cfm?SrcLine=CP&SrcCat=5), but for a different purpose. I use it for spot cleaning - like when there's a bird poop or a bug splat on the car, and I don't want to wash the whole thing.
http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/product_a33.gif
Meguiar's also has a similar product, called Final Inspection #34 (http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showproducts_template.cfm?SrcLine=PP&SrcCat=5). I asked their sales rep what the difference was, and he pointed out that they have a "consumer" line of products, and a "professional" line of products, even though both lines are sold to consumers in retail stores, and they need to cover all needs in both lines. He said they're virtually the same thing.
http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/product_m34.gif
I think NSXTASY has a really excellent routine outlined. I have Zymol NSX and Japon wax but think the 3M show car paste wax (Not the liquid) gives the same results and, it's easier and faster than the Zymol. The big deal is the preparation before you wax, as Ken points out, as much as the products you use.
SoCal-NSX
05-16-2002, 22:40
Zaino!
I bought Zaino for my not-flawless '94 and used it exactly like the FAQ recommended and was amazed. Best wax I've ever used and even hid old swirlmarks etc.
Dave
The process for Zaino is completely different than conventional carnuaba waxes.
This is one of the things that I like about the product. There is no "cleaning" step. You wash the car and then apply and remove the synthethic polish.
-Jim
PS: Despite the insinuations found in this thread, I do not sell, or profit from the sale of Zaino products. I'm just someone who used and tried many wax and car care products over the past 30 years (on 20+ cars that I've owned) and finally found something that I really like.
[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 17 May 2002).]
apeltier
05-17-2002, 02:14
Zaino! Zaino! Zaino!
I used to be a Zymol guy based on the earlier consensus on this forum. After seeing the Zaino stuff on the C5 forums (looking at them for work reasons) I heard about Zaino. It didn't take long before the NSX guys were comparing the 2. Now I use Zymol on my Integra and Zaino on the NSX! Actually, Zymol is still really great, but I'm a Zaino convert.
Alan
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Alan Peltier
Operations Manager
HRE Performance Wheels
alanp@hrewheels.com
'94 black/black NSX
HID - Autolamps
Wheels - HRE 448Rs - 18x8, 19x10
Tires - Pirelli PZero Rossos
Springs - Eibach ProKits
Shocks - Bilstein
Performance upgrades coming as soon as I can scrape up the cash! Donations much appreciated!!
http://geocities.com/nsxbyhre/Main.html
Check out our website at http://www.hrewheels.com
For more information about the full line of detailing products offered by various brands, click on each brand name below to view its website:
Zymol (http://www.zymol.com)
Meguiars (http://www.meguiars.com)
3M (http://www.3m.com/us/auto_marine_aero/aad/catalog/) (then click on "Car Care and Appearance Products)
Mothers (http://www.mothers.com)
Zaino (http://www.zainobros.com)
Griots Garage (http://www.griotsgarage.com/) (then click on "Car Care")
Clay Magic (http://www.clay-magic.com) (clay product only, not a full line)
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 17 May 2002).]
Okay,
I'm getting ready to wash the car. After going through all the posts, I've decided to start this learning curve with NSXtacy's advice. Because I'm as tight as a crabs ass regarding this stuff, I'm going to simply wash the car today - and that's it. This is my plan.
Transport the car from the garage to the self-serve car wash.
1. Using only Spot-free water, fill up 3 buckets (one for Zymol Car Wash, one for rinse number 1 and another for rinse number 2).
2. I'm going to apply with 100% cotton towels made in the USA from Sam's Club.
3. I will rinse the car totally with spot-free rinse water.
4. I'll wash the car as described in the Detailing Section of this site (from top to bottom, etc).
5. I'll either allow the car to dry on it's own from the spot free rinse (which I've had no spotting problem with) or using a remaining towel or cheneille (sp?) only when 1 billion percent positive there is no dirt on the paint.
6. Next, I'll go over the car with the Maguire's Quick Detailer for the smell of it and the final touch.
Questions - can I use a bag full of sponges for the wash? Also, last night I noticed a section of the bolster dry, hard and beginning of crack lines (though no cracks, but you can see the spider web starting). A friend of mine had Lexol Conditioner. I sprayed a couple drops in my hand and rubbed it in. I came back hours later (and I was careless about it, I just figured "moisture" was good) and that whole area is shiny, but sticky. I was hoping it would look and feel like the passenger seat which is brand new. My question is - should I do both seats for uniformity (but I don't like the shine I see or the feel of it) or should I somehow buff of some of the Lexol to get it to blend. The seats have never been cleaned but the car has only 9K miles on it since brand new (1995) and has been garaged BUT - as I said, the drivers side is showing some dryness apparently.
Appreciate it - I know this is a highly opinionated exhausted topic, but trust me, I've read through everything already on this site and just want to get up to date feedback. I'll let you know how the car wash works out.
Originally posted by SUPO:
can I use a bag full of sponges for the wash?
I would not recommend it. Sponges are made of either polyester or natural sponge, and (as far as I know - someone correct me if I'm wrong) could scratch the finish. To wash the car, use either one of the cotton detailing cloths, or a sponge that's covered with an all-cotton terry covering (you can find these in the automotive section of your favorite store). Some people recommend soft chamois too.
I checked ALL the terry cloth towels at Wal-Mart, Discount Auto Parts, Target and all said Made In Pakistan (or Bangledesh). So I used a Chenielle (did I spell that right). Is that okay? What about 100% Sheepskin for washing and polishing?
Originally posted by SUPO:
I checked ALL the terry cloth towels at Wal-Mart, Discount Auto Parts, Target and all said Made In Pakistan (or Bangledesh).
That's okay. I think the scare stories about imported all-cotton towels are just that - scare stories. I bought a bag of 36 all-cotton detailing towels at Sam's Club. One of the fans of those scare stories told me about how the threads in the seams could be polyester, so I burned one thread to test it, and sure enough, it was cotton too.
So I used a Chenielle (did I spell that right). Is that okay?
I don't know what chenille is made of (I think that's how it's spelled but I'm not sure). Does it say on the package?
What about 100% Sheepskin for washing and polishing?
I think cotton is softer.
Slingshot
06-03-2002, 20:13
If you are hung up on Meguiars...
check here (http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/000244.html)
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