View Full Version : NSX vs C5
I have been having a discusion with my friend on wich car is better the NSX or Corvette. I keep saying that the NSX is better but he has some good arguments like #The C5 costs 1/2 the price of a NSX. #2 The C5 does 0-60 in 4.7sec and the NSX does 0-60 in 5.3 He wants to know why the NSX costs so much more than the C5, I tell him that it is because the NSX is enginered a lot better but he wants more. I havent gotten my own NSX yet so I dont have much materal to trhough at him, I know that the NSX is high class but can you guys see his point? I bet an NSX handles better to. Oh I almost forgot the C5 gets almost the same fuel effenciency as the NSX. help me out please!
This silly banter wears me out.
Let's see...Which actress should I marry: Ashley Judd (NSX) or Tori Spelling (M5)? Bla, bla, bla...
Let's see....Which singer should I marry: Mariah Carey (NSX) or Minnie Pearl (M5).
HELLO!!! EXCUSE ME, but if people can't see with there own eyes the obvious differences between two such completely different cars, there's a screw loose somewhere!!
I own and drive an NSX, and am looking also to buy an M5, but I have no temptation to compare them, because they simply are not comparable!!!
Give me and other NSX Primers a break with these silly comparisons, PLEASE!!!
I see the differences, but he dosent. Sorry for the inconveience. I will keep my comparasons to myself next time.
Originally posted by NSX4EVR:
I have been having a discusion with my friend on wich car is better the NSX or Corvette. I keep saying that the NSX is better but he has some good arguments like #The C5 costs 1/2 the price of a NSX. #2 The C5 does 0-60 in 4.7sec and the NSX does 0-60 in 5.3 He wants to know why the NSX costs so much more than the C5, I tell him that it is because the NSX is enginered a lot better but he wants more. I havent gotten my own NSX yet so I dont have much materal to trhough at him, I know that the NSX is high class but can you guys see his point? I bet an NSX handles better to. Oh I almost forgot the C5 gets almost the same fuel effenciency as the NSX. help me out please!
Well your NSX has aluminum body and won't rust. Your NSX has real sports seats with actual support. Your NSX has a 8000RPM redline. Your NSX does not have a dash like something out of Buick. Your NSX is not made in the USA. And most importantly you know your NSX is better because he is trying to defend his C5 against it http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
Just tel him the C5 is better as you drive away in the NSX with a big smile.
My 2 cents...
Actually, this discussion is perhaps a bit more relevant, in my opinion, than the M5 vs the NSX thread. I think the NSX and C5 are much more closely matched or related by virtue that at least they're both two seater sports cars.
As Lud (I think) pointed out, these are two cars that take different approaches to solve the same or similar problems. The C5 engineers stuck with front engine-rear drive for a number of reasons. Cost and packaging were reasons and I suppose historical inertia was another reason. The C5 is Chevrolet's flagship just as the NSX is Honda's.
I LOVE my NSX, but I also have to admit as I mentioned in other topic, that Chevy has done a lot of things right with the C5. It's amazingly lightweight and stiff, it handles and performs very well. It is a HUGE refinement over the C4 (and the C3 which I own http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/wink.gif heheheh ). Your friend makes a number of valid points.
When the NSX came out it was SO MUCH better than the C4 Corvette (IMHO) that it was clearly worth the premium in price. It was in a different league.
But ten years have gone by and while the NSX is still a marvelous automobile, I think it's fair to say that Chevy has really narrowed the gap in pretty much all technical and performance areas. The C5 is also much more refined and solid than in the past. Quality is vastly improved.
However, at least for me, cars are not merely the sum of their parts or their specfications. I seriously considered buying a C5 Corvette. Seriously. But for me a HAD to have a NSX.
I like the mid-engine concept, I like the technical details of the NSX, I love the styling, I like that you don't see them all over the place, I like Honda products...
I think it's all too easy to get caught up in a game where in order to make one car good another car has to be bad. The C5 is a fine car. Considering the price difference between the NSX - I too would be hard pressed to explain why the NSX should cost twice as much.
Of course, it does come down to numbers. Honda needs, from what I hear, to make around 2000 to 3000 NSXs a year to really make it a profitable venture. I don't think that they've done that except in the first few years. Chevy sells ten times that number of Corvettes.
Here's what I wish for...
I hope Honda buys a Z06 C5 and applies certain technologies to the next generation of NSX. I hope this next NSX is more affordable ($55K - $60K) and Honda produces and sells what they need to keep the car alive and thriving. I wouldn't want Honda to produce as many NSXs as Corvettes, but they need to sell more than 150 units a year.
I hope they maintain the styling and design concepts intact. I hope they use the new V8 engine and I hope it produces 400+ horsepower. If steel makes sense from an engineering and cost point of view, then so be it. Although, I would like to see a number of composite body panels. I also hope for a few more color choices.
Longer term, I'd love to see Honda work on enhancing the VTEC design. Why only two cams lobes per valve? How about electronic-solenoid valves? Let's get away from all those springs and associated drag and go to a completely and infinitely variable valvetrain that isn't driven by a parasitic timing belt and springs. It's been under development by a few companies but Honda could make it work affordably. Such an engine would scream!!! I'm guessing that the current 290 hp V6 could be in the 350 hp range with such a system....
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
Thanks Jim,
You made some really good points. I feel they same way you do, cars are not only the sum or there parts, the "feel" of the car is almost just as important to me.
Kirk Johnson
07-13-2000, 03:23
If you've driven both cars the NSX is just plain out more fun to drive!!!!!! When sitting in a corvette I feel like I am surrounded by a gigantic piece of plastic that is hard to see out of. The NSX is much more ergonomically correct(IMO).
Another reason(even though it may sound very Califorian) the NSX will usually get alot of attention. I think I saw maybe 40 or 50 Corvettes today compared to no NSX's (beside mine) That carries some weight on the price tag!!!!
Bottom Line is get what you want I waited almost nine years to get mine, makes the car that much more special to me, always remember drive what you like, once you drive an NSX it makes it hard to compare other cars. You may not like the NSX (but I don't think that will be the case) but go drive other cars. I only drove an NSX for about an hour when they first came out back in 91 my friend bought one, I never drove another car like it!! http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
The C5 does 0-60 in 4.7sec and the NSX does 0-60 in 5.
Wrong. Most recent magazine tests have the C5 doing 0-60 in 4.8-4.9 seconds and the NSX in 4.6-4.8 seconds.
The C5 really is a legitimate sports car, probably the first Chevy has ever offered. It is easily the best value on the market, with performance (in real world terms) identical to a 911 or NSX at about half the price. They also respond to modifications very well. A friend has heads and an exhaust on his C5 and has just over 400hp at the wheels and tractor-like torque. Think of the money you would have to spend to get the same power from an NSX.
the nsx does not do the o-06 in 4.6 not even close..i think the best time ever was 4.7 or 4.8..mind you the c5 doesnt do in 4.6 either...more like 4.8-4.9 so they are very close in the sprint category but 1/4 mile i think the c5 would have the edge...re the comparison value wise u cant beat the c5 but i drove the back to back biggest diff: build quality, handling was night and day, and those gears are soooooo smooth...obviously the nsx getting the nod in all three categories.!!!
TitaniumVtec
07-13-2000, 12:38
David,
You are correct about how easy the C5 takes to mods, and how the amount of cash spent returns HP figures that are justified.
I was fortunate enough to watch as two Comptech supercharged NSXs hit the dyno a few weeks back in South Florida. One was a 3.0 running 9 psi and the other was a 3.2 running 6.5 psi. I think the best figures generated were around 350 hp RWHP. We all know the cost of these mods so there is no need to go there. The fact is, the money you shell out to modify an NSX does not, and cannot return the same level of performance you could get from a C5 (hp vs hp only). This use to bother me a lot as I love to go fast and my pockets are not that deep.
However, I do feel that whatever short comings there are in the HP arena, the NSX makes up in the looks department. No Vette IMHO, looks 1/100000000000000th as bad ass as an NSX!! Power does not equal class!
I'd rather get beat by Civics, Integras, Stangs and Vettes all day long just to arrive at the party in my NSX!! Enought said.
Dear NSX4EVR,
I wish to sincerely apoligize for my statments above in this thread. I misread your intiial question as "M5" rather than "C5". I thought you were asking about comparisons of the NSX and BMW M5. This is my rude mistake. You are absolutley correct to be comparing the Corvette and NSX, because they are directly competing vehicles using most criteria.
I had been hypersensitized by a previous thread in which comparisons were being made between the BMW M3 and the NSX, which I think makes no sense, because they are so different.
Again, my apologies.
Back to your topic: Before I recently found and bought my 95 NSX-T (used with 3,800 original miles), I went to the local Corvette dealer and looked at the C5. I found it beautiful, except for the "too big butt" rear end. I then sat in the driver's seat and immediately found that the seat belt buckle jabbed into my right hip. It was not adjustable. I weight 177 lbs., so I don't consider myself to be too obese to fit in a car. I then asked the salesman who was very small and thin to sit in the seat, which he did. I asked him if he was comfortable, and he said the seat belt buckle was sticking him in the right hip. He said it seemed like a bad design, and I agreed. I then went to read "Consumer Reports" on used Corvettes, and that ended my interest in this car. They did not appear to be reliable. I concluded that one intially pays less to buy the Corvette than the NSX, but that one later pays more to keep the Corvette running. I have also read repeated stories, including on this web site, about how many times the Corvette needs major repairs, like entire transmission replacements, etc. So in the end, I had little choise, but to go with a car (NSX) made by a company (Honda/Acura) whose product performance and reliablity were superior to those of GM/Chevrolet.
Because there are many NSX garage queens out there, it is still possible to find a virtually new NSX, for about half the current retail price of a new NSX. This is what I did, and am I ever happy that I did!!
NSXY
hey hey,
Long time no talk to everyone. Just some of your guys thoughts got me thinking. You know that thing about 400+ HP for the new NSX....i _REALLY_ doubt it. You know why? Cuz in Japan, there's a law that no car that is produced is allowed to have more than 280 hp. Obviously, some companies lie a little (there's no wayy the Subaru WRC Type R and the Nissan Skyline GT-R Vspec put out so little) Another good example is the Toyota Supra. It's detuned to 280 hp. And as for the Lexus GS400...they don't even make them in Japan (as in they're not allowed).
And i think that if you do have more than 280hp, you have to pay a fee.
BUT Honda could release a stronger version for the European and North American market.
My 2 cents.
l8z
Endless, you are right that all domestic Japanese cars are not allowed to produce over 280ps(hp). BUT the cars are NOT in fact detuned from what I understand. The cars produce 280 "BIG" horses... I have heard that they do this by measuring the power at a lower RPM than what they peak at, so that they measure out to roughly 280 horsepower.
That would explain why a 280hp Supra in Japan does equally as well as a 320hp Supra here in the US.
In my opinion the NSX is better because its hand made and has outstanding fit and finish. The materials used are top notch, where as in corvettes the dash and overall feel is plasticky (not sure if thats the correct way to spell that). While the vette may get to 60 quicker, the NSX will catch it, maybe not pass it, at the quarter mile. Also the NSX handles better and will take them on a road course. I don't know why but every one seems to base a cars performance just on 0-60. 0-60 is just one aspect of performance, am I right?
Vette defenders always use the same argument, its 1/2 the price and its "faster" to 60. SO what. I just tell them look, if thats what you want drive the Vette, I drive an NSX because I like it, I don't care what you like. After all I bought the car for me, not you.
[This message has been edited by PUREVIL (edited 13 July 2000).]
It all falls down to personal taste and that's pretty much it. The C-5 is a great car in it's own right, you have to marvel at it's cost vs. performance. And there was some excellent engineering done on this car, but then again GM can afford to put the money into devolopment as the car is a sales success (in B.C. every car is pretty much pre-sold). And I have to agree that the car looks pretty sweet too.
As for the NSX what can I say that hasn't already been said a million times. It's a very refined and sophisticated piece of machinery. The car is beginning to get a little dated but then again it is 10 years old and STILL if you look at comparison tests the car is on par or better than the competition (vette, porshe, etc) in every aspect.
But as I said it's a matter of personal taste. My own personal view is the NSX represents F1 technology and feel while the Vette is more along the lines of Nascar. Don't get me wrong I like the vette but last week when I took one for a ride I was a little underwhelmed with the feel of the car, hate to say it but it felt cheesy in quality. All you have to do is open and close the door and if you've owned an NSX, BMW, Benz, etc, you'll know what I'm talking about, it lacks that refined feel. But then again it is an american engineered car and we can't expect Audi type fit and finish from Chevrolet.
Anyway, I can't wait for the next NSX, I can just imagine how much better 10 years of knowledge and evolution will make it. And if Honda is listenning, 400+hp V8 with lots of torque and that sexually gratifying F1-type intake roar. Not to mention fresher styling, maybe along the lines of current NSX/S2000 and do not change the interior much, it may be 10 years old but it's perfect. All for around 50K.
hgunnerz
07-13-2000, 18:24
I hate compromise but I couldn't justify buying both a C5 and an NSX.
I did though get a firebird instead as my daily driver (poor mans 'vette) so I could keep the miles off my NSX. The LS-1 engine is sweet (the highlight of the car) and has great torque. Still the firebird feels like a truck by comparison to the NSX and build and materials quality is typical American (read: cheap/cost effective). I know true C5 fans are cringing that I am comparing a firebird to the C5 (sorry). Also I should note that the last two brand new American cars I have owned have leaked badly. American cars also tend to develop a lot of rattles by 50-75K miles I notice.
The C5 is a huge leap past the old C4's and I wish one was parked in my driveway (next to the Supra, M5, 3000GT and all the rest of the cars we always discuss)..
Doing car comparisons is hard though, each is so different. Guess I really want them all but need a MUCH larger garage.
H.Gunner
91 NSX Blk/blk
99 Formula Firebird
74 AMX Javelin
67 Couger XR7
Originally posted by vtec:
the nsx does not do the o-06 in 4.6 not even close..i think the best time ever was 4.7 or 4.8
Oh, really?
Here are test 0-60 times reported in the major magazines, as found in the FAQ in this forum:
4.5 sec (Car and Driver, 8/98)
4.7 sec (Road & Track, 5/99)
4.8 sec (Car and Driver, 7/99)
4.5 sec (AutoWeek, 4/97, this for an S-Zero, essentially same car as the Zanardi sold here)
Generally, test times of 4.5-4.7 seconds result for the 3.2L NSX coupe (including the Zanardi), and times of 4.8-5.0 seconds for the NSX-T. (Don't even ask about the SportShift.)
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 July 2000).]
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 July 2000).]
The fastest zero-to-sixty test I remember for an NSX was in Car and Driver's 0-150-0 test. 0-60 in 4.5 seconds for a 97+ Coupe. It is at the end of the article under the stock car comparisons. http://www.caranddriver.com/FrameSet/0,1350,_sl_NewArticle_sl_0_cm_1633_cm_52 4_1_17_cm_00,00.html (http://www.caranddriver.com/FrameSet/0,1350,_sl_NewArticle_sl_0_cm_1633_cm_524_1_17_cm_ 00,00.html)
[This message has been edited by 1BADNSX (edited 16 July 2000).]
listen there is no way that a stock nsx could do 0-60mph in 4.5 flat...by stock i dont mean the zandari edition or type s ....altough i would be surprised even if they could..4.5 seconds is extremely fast...the new z06 and mustang racer did it in those times and they have close to 385 and 400 hp to the WHEELS...cant confirm your numbers..the viper doest it in 4.25 and it has 425 to the wheels..on average i think the regualre nsx does it in about 4.8-5.0 still pretty fast...but 4.5 dont think so..any other guys on the board with thoughts..re this??
[QUOTE]Originally posted by vtec:
listen there is no way that a stock nsx could do 0-60mph in 4.5 flat...by stock i dont mean the zandari edition
Why not? The Zanardi is built at the factory that way, and sold at the dealership - just like the Z06.
the new z06 and mustang racer did it in those times and they have close to 385 and 400 hp to the WHEELS
No, the figures you quote for those cars are at the crank.
...cant confirm your numbers..
It's easy to confirm; just go to your public library and see if they have back issues of those magazines. Or check out the Car and Driver website via the link posted above.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 July 2000).]
The Z06 does not put down 385hp at the wheels!!!!! It is at the crank, you need to look over your articles again, and 425hp at the wheels for a Viper? The best I have personally witnessed is 387hp(stock) but I have read about one that put down 392hp(stock). The highest I have seen for a stock C5 vette was 292hp. As far as 0-60 times, my experience has been that tires (type and air pressure) and the type of pavement play an enormous part. Being able to "hookup" in 1st gear is critical. You are correct that 4.5sec is extremely fast, especially for an NSX but I have posted a 5.13sec in my 92 (modified air intake, springs, 255 tires) and I am confident that I could post consistent sub 5 sec. runs in a 97+. Some of you that have read my last posts know that the best times we have clocked for a C5 (6,800 miles) was about 5.2-3sec. and he was a very good driver and made perfect shifts. Argueing 0-60mph times though is rather fruitless since in the real world (late night racing) it comes down to the drivers skills (that margin grows very narrow though when a Viper pulls up in the opposing lane).
Okay people, here's my $.02. I use my '94 NSX as a daily driver and wouldn't trade it for anything. Well, maybe a 911 Turbo (96 or 97). Numbers always look good on paper, and the one thing I remember from Statistics 101 is that numbers are lies. Since most of us here are automotive enthusiasts and highly educated on the topic of cars, let's remember one thing. All cars are different, and each one does the same thing only at a different level. So let's enjoy our cars and drive safe. That's all for me!
Just a side note on the Supra there. There are differences in the home market and export models. THe export models extract ~345 via larger turbo's and use a MAF system. The home market models comprises of smaller veramix turbos and uses a MAP system to derive only 280ps. It's unfortunate, and rare to see such a reversal of patterns from the traditional Japanese power models and weaker exports.
Originally posted by Edo:
Endless, you are right that all domestic Japanese cars are not allowed to produce over 280ps(hp). BUT the cars are NOT in fact detuned from what I understand. The cars produce 280 "BIG" horses... I have heard that they do this by measuring the power at a lower RPM than what they peak at, so that they measure out to roughly 280 horsepower.
That would explain why a 280hp Supra in Japan does equally as well as a 320hp Supra here in the US.
I like this arguement here, a lot more than all the other BS I've heard about NSX's whooping on BPU Supra's and such. The NSX's trumping card has never been, and probably never will be value or horsepower. It's designed purposely to be a showcase of Honduh engineering first and foremost, and to provide an exhilarating driving experience outright. I find it interesting though that more people accept this debate on the C5 as opposed to the M3, since the Bimmer's forte also is handling and showcasing everything good about the Teutonic experience. Granted looks are different, but a subjective proposition. IMHO, the C5 is a nice alternative, but it being a domestic and having a huge boat like profile and driving position relegulates it nothing to more than a high end F-Body.
Originally posted by TitaniumVtec:
David,
However, I do feel that whatever short comings there are in the HP arena, the NSX makes up in the looks department. No Vette IMHO, looks 1/100000000000000th as bad ass as an NSX!! Power does not equal class!
Whether a C5-Z06-NSX-Zanardi can accelerate to 60 MPH in 4.5 or 4.9 seconds, it's still pretty quick and the times are pretty close.
After all...you can buy a 5 year old 5.0 liter Mustang, spend $2,500 and achieve the same results. I don't think that's the point.
I think we can all agree that the new C5 is a lot closer to the NSX in performance and quality than the old C4 was back in 1991. A lot closer.
I owned a 1984 C4 and the new C5 and my 1991 NSX are light years ahead. Styling is subjective. People like different things. For me the styling of the C5 is OK. Not wonderfully beautiful...but OK. I personally like the NSX much better. But as I said this is a subjective thing.
For the price of $40-$45K the C5 is a bargain considering the performance and level of improved refinement.
Is it better than a NSX? Is it better than a 911? Is it better than a Prowler? Is it better than a Viper? Who cares? It's a personal choice.
I've often heard that people who are impressed with labels buy a Ferrari and not a NSX. If you're impressed with price-performance alone, there's no doubt that the C5 or the Z06 would be a strong contender.
For me the choice of buying my NSX was much more complex than pure specs or labels.
I think what's interesting to me are the engineering and marketing implications that the C5 brings to the table.
In the end...when that new NSX comes out...I want to be able to say...."OH YEAH...I MUST have that car". I hope it looks great, performs better than the Z06 and comes in at price that I can afford and I price where I think I'm getting a great value for the money.
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
I beleive the last magazine mt..did the comparison of the mustand/z06/viper..and they did rear wheel dyno's...THEY came up with 425 to the wheels for the viper..which equates to about 500 to the crank assuming 15% drivetrain loss on the borg tranny...re the vette youre right 385 to the crank...and mustang was sig higher..i think around 350 or so to the wheels...again latest mt mag did the comparison..and if u go on the viper board many surveys have been done asking dyno to the wheels for broken in vipers.and they avearge slighly over 400...re your time of 5.1 very impressive....what do u figure u could do with a supercharger?? mid 4's ...and by the way the driving exp of the nsx is really unmatched by the viper or vette..and the gears wow..the shifting on the vipers feels like a truck in comparison...later.
Flying Low
07-14-2000, 16:45
I sold my 2000 Millenium Yellow C5, 6spd for my 1994 NSX.
I've never looked back.
------------------
94 Red & Tan NSX 5spd
1999 Cosmos BMW M Coupe 5spd
I found C5 seats too comfortable. Didn't feel like a sports car.
I like it stiff!!
0-60 times don't prove anything. It all comes down to driver skill and tires in the end. A Corvette comes with EMT run flats, hardly a high performance tire. With drag radials or slicks, Vipers, Corvettes, and NSX's would run quicker 0-60 times, which still doesn't mean much. How often do races end once you get to 60mph? The Z06 has over 400 crank hp. The Z06 tested in the MT article (which sucked) dynoed at 346rwhp, the Cobra R at 385rwhp, and the Viper at 425rwhp. All these cars are underrated, and the course did not favor cars with massive horsepower and torque. A Dodge Neon ACR would probably have taken all 3 of these cars on that particular track. C5's have 120% of the NSX's acceleration, and 95% of it's handling. Not bad for half the price.
Jay,
I hope your not judging a car on it's seats (which are easily replaced).
Dear NSXY,
No problem man. I can see how you would get upset about having to "re-hash" the same topic over and over, I hate that too.
I would like to extend a big Thank You, to everyone who posted a reply about this topic, it helped a lot. I am new to NSX Prime but I already feel welcome, thanks.
I think you can tell by my name what side I am on (NSX). Some things you just cant get with numbers, like style and refinment. Well anyway keep driving (dont let your NSX become a garage queen). ;Ž
I considered a C5 before I bought my used 98 NSX coupe last year. Previously, I drove Corvettes for 25 years. Reliability and build quality are definitely an issue. More importantly, for me, is the driving experience. A corvette feels big and like you’re sitting in a hole surrounded by mediocre material quality. In the NSX, as one writer put it, you feel like your sitting on the head of an arrow. The car is low around you, ergonomics are excellent, and you’re surrounded by quality materials and workmanship. On a road course or autocross track (where I’ve had 15 years of experience) the two perform equally well, however, the NSX feels refined and the sounds at 8,000 RPM are addicting. Also, the NSX has what I call long legs. It just keeps pulling for a wide RPM range while the corvette stops at 6,000 RPM (6,500 on the Z06). After all is said and done, however, and your having an ice cream at some road side ice cream stand, I find pleasure in watching people admire the NSX. While some people look at a Corvette, EVERYBODY looks at the NSX. Even if you don’t know what it is, it is clearly something rare and exotic.
On the subject of 0-60, I would like to point out something that everyone appears to be overlooking. 0-60 times are, in large part, based on useable torque at the rear wheels, not absolute engine torque. We all know we can spin our wheels with an NSX just as a Corvette can. What that means is that both cars have more torque than can be used to generate forward motion. The force that can move a car forward is the force that the drive wheels can put to the pavement. Without going through the math, this force is directly proportional to the percentage of weight on the drive wheels. That is why front engine, front wheel drive cars are good in the snow. The NSX has approximately 58% of its weight on the rear wheels while the corvette has 50%. Therefore, the NSX can exert 16% more force off the line then the Corvette! I understand that while “off the line” does not account for the entire 0-60 time, it does account for some advantage for the NSX. Between 4000-6000 RPM the Corvette, once launched, has an acceleration advantage, but not as much as one might think. The total torque at the rear wheels is the torque after drive train losses multiplied times the torque multiplier (transmission ratio x ring & pinion ratio). In first the Corvette’s torque multiplier is approximately 9:1 and the NSX 12.5:1. Assuming approximately 300 and 190 ft. lbs. of torque (for the Corvetter and NSX respectively) after drive train losses, the total torque for the Corvette is 2700 foot pounds and 2375 for the NSX. At this point the Corvette has a slight advantage. After 6000 RPM the Corvette must shift, lowering its torque multiplier to 6:1 or a total of 1800 foot pounds giving the NSX an advantage. When the NSX shifts to second, it still has an 8:1 torque multiplier giving it 1520 ft. lbs., giving the corvette a slight advantage. The end result is that the 0-60 times are almost identical. This same back and forth advantage shifting occurs through the quarter mile, also resulting in similar times. And, as pointed out in the Car and Driver 0-150-0 test, the NSX was 3 seconds quicker to 150 then the Corvette. This was due to its gearing advantage. As you can see, you can’t just compare absolute engine numbers or even rear wheel numbers to determine a car’s acceleration. When comparing these two cars, which are virtually identical in performance, I always point out one important fact… the corvette needs two more cylinders and 78% more cubic inch displacement to achieve the same results!! That, by the way, is a large part of what you pay for in an NSX.
wish4nsx
07-15-2000, 13:30
… the corvette needs two more cylinders and 78% more cubic inch displacement to achieve the same results!! That, by the way, is a large part of what you pay for in an NSX.
BRAVO dswartz!! The true beauty of the NSX is stated above. Why can't more people realize this? That's Honda engineering- (Note: Circa 1990!!!)
Who cares if the engine is bigger to get the same results? Does it really matter other than in an ego-flexing exercise? I don't care if the car is powered by a squirrel cage or a nuclear reactor -- power is power. The last time I went to the drag strip, no one was giving me bonus points for having a smaller engine.
Originally posted by nsxer:
The Z06 does not put down 385hp at the wheels!!!!! It is at the crank, you need to look over your articles again, and 425hp at the wheels for a Viper? The best I have personally witnessed is 387hp(stock) but I have read about one that put down 392hp(stock). The highest I have seen for a stock C5 vette was 292hp. As far as 0-60 times, my experience has been that tires (type and air pressure) and the type of pavement play an enormous part. Being able to "hookup" in 1st gear is critical. You are correct that 4.5sec is extremely fast, especially for an NSX but I have posted a 5.13sec in my 92 (modified air intake, springs, 255 tires) and I am confident that I could post consistent sub 5 sec. runs in a 97+. Some of you that have read my last posts know that the best times we have clocked for a C5 (6,800 miles) was about 5.2-3sec. and he was a very good driver and made perfect shifts. Argueing 0-60mph times though is rather fruitless since in the real world (late night racing) it comes down to the drivers skills (that margin grows very narrow though when a Viper pulls up in the opposing lane).
I just watched a Car and Drivers show that had the Viper vs. the Z06 C5, and the Cobra-R Mustang. They had the cars on a dyno and this is the result:
viper 425 at the wheel
(Dodge says 450 at crank)
z06 344 at the wheel
(Chevy says 385 at crank)
cobra-r 376 at the wheel
(Ford says 385 at crank)
The Cobra-R only lost 9 hp from what Ford says it has at crank (385hp). Im neutral in this argument.. Just wanted to state the facts i saw.
Also Quarter Miles from the show.. are as follows:
Viper 12.33
Z06 Vette 12.86
Cobra-r 12.88
[This message has been edited by Kewjoe (edited 16 July 2000).]
no but if you get the same time as those "big" engines you get to have
a bigger smile on your face
Originally posted by David:
Who cares if the engine is bigger to get the same results? Does it really matter other than in an ego-flexing exercise? I don't care if the car is powered by a squirrel cage or a nuclear reactor -- power is power. The last time I went to the drag strip, no one was giving me bonus points for having a smaller engine.
There is an inescapable logic to the "big engine" argument. If a larger, perhaps less sophisticated engine (as in the Z06) gets the job done then you have to give credit where it's due.
Let me play devil's advocate, and keep in mind, I decided on a 9 year old NSX instead of a new C5.
Yes, the C5 does have two more cylinders and more displacement to get the job done. However, I would expected the smaller and lighter engine in the NSX along with the aluminum construction would have enabled a far lighter structure than what we have.
As I said earlier, the C5 and NSX are for all practical purposes the same weight. I think the critique on the C5's engine and design might ring a bit more true if the car weighed 3400-3600 pounds.
-Jim
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1991 NSX Blk/Blk
1974 Vette 454 4 spd
Wht/Blk
I honestly do not believe that someone interested in a NSX would even give a Chevy a blink. In the NSX you are surrounded by quality and precision craftmanship and it shows. This simply is not a feeling one can extract from a Chevy thus the difference in price. Not to fault GM however, they did not intend to have the C5 to compete against Acura's or Porsche's. Corvette's have always been the "affordable sports car" and GM has continued this tradition with the latest offerings.
I have owned two Vettes, a 85 and a 97 convertible. I would like to believe that I have since "graduated" to things finer that fit my lifestyle. Face it guys-how many of you make 10.00 a hour? Whether it be lifestyle, prestige or just it's merits, we love the NSX for what it is and for what IT IS NOT.
Just my little two cents for what it's worth
Lee Dye
future NSX or Viper owner, have not yet decided http://www.ladman.com
10 or even 15 years from now, what car would you really rather drive around? An NSX or a Corvette. When you see a 10 year old Corvette, does it make you crank your neck around like say an NSX? Probably not! The NSX is in a different league. Do not get me wrong, the Corvette is a great car and very fast but in my opinion cannot match the feeling an NSX gives you. Maybe it is because there are so many Corvettes on the road it sort of takes a little of the specialness out of owning one? Before I purchased my NSX I looked at buying an 89' 911 turbo. It was a car that I could drive for a long time a be very happy with even though every year it would be getting older. For some reason, age on a Porsche just makes it better and an NSX is that way as well but I cannot say the same for the Corvette (OK, maybe the vettes from the 60s).
fstvette
08-13-2000, 13:37
Wow, its good to find a car that gets worse bang for the buck when I got my vette I was Pi$$ed off every time I bought a Mod for it. And the bang for the buck was pour at best. The problem is that I am ready to upgrade and am looking at either a C5 or 93 or older NSX. The vette doesn't rust either and it doesn't get door dings. But it doesn't look nearly as good, Honda did a great job with styling This is going to be a hard decision. Haven't driven a NSX but have the C5 and it is a nice ride.
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1993 6-speed corvette 383 stroker.
12.0@120 on regular g-forces.
Once you drive the NSX, the choice will be immensely obvious. An amazing difference in refinement and overall 'feel' of the road. I mean, it's not even close!!! Good luck with your new NSX.... http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/smile.gif
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Pls. visit my site w/ lots of info, pics and a new classified & discussion board (very new) @
http://www.geocities.com/nsxcessive/index.html
fstvette:
Today I drove thru the local mountains and beach areas, about 110 RT miles. I saw six red or yellow C5's, but not one NSX. My car remains relatively unique in "SoCal Sports Car Land", yet it's a Honda!!! and so much more reliable than a Chevrolet. I got 22 mpg even though I was speeding thru the switch backs up and down Palomar mountain!!!! Only the cafe racers in leathers can stay with me in the turns.
I say "Buy the Honda," and you will not regret it. But you still need to be a good consumer, so read NSX Prime Faq, then start looking for a low mileage garage queen. That's what I did. Best luck.
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NSXY
1995 NSX-T 5 speed, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlap SP9000s
yeah I totally agree with "Buy NSX, you'll never regret" statement. I used to LOVE the Supra TT that I spend almost half an year to search for a good supra. However, most Supras in my area were in poor condition, as a result, I ended up buying my current NSX. I NEVER feel regret buying the NSX, even though they are some great Supras for sale now. In my opinion, I think Supra and Vette are two extremely similar car, but the NSX is just in another different league.
I think it's pretty simple. I ask my wife which one concerned her more..... I bought the NSX and now she wants to ride shotgun all the time...... http://www.nsxprime.com/ubb/wink.gif
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