NSX Tech Session on Saturday 12/8/07 [Archive]

Coz

11-10-2007, 21:07

Advanced Automotive Performance will host it's first NSX Tech Session on Saturday 12/8/07 from 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM.

*****BEEN RESCHEDULED TO DECEMBER 15TH FROM 10AM TO 3PM DUE TO RAIN*****

The plan is we'll host a NSX Tech Session Day once a month. At each tech session we will have previously picked an owners NSX that is in need maintenance, repair or an upgrade and it will be perform on that day. There will be no labor charges on the NSX that is used for any of the Tech Sessions, only the parts used.

Our factory trained Acura/Honda Certified Technician's will be there to perform the scheduled Tech Session. Each month we will pick a different area or 2 of the NSX to spotlight and focus on. We will also schedule various representatives from vendor suppliers to do product presentations as we can.

Come learn about your car, do it yourself maintenance, minor repairs, upgrades and share some time with fellow NSX owners.

There is no charge to attend these monthly Tech Sessions.

The first one will be about General Maintenance.
Oil & Filter Changes
Gearbox Oil Change
Brake Pad & Rotor Changes

During the first one, we'll decide from those attending who needs what and we'll choose what to focus on for the second tech session in January.

Refreshments will be supplied at all Tech Sessions.

See you there....
Advanced Automotive Performance
1126 N. Scottsdale Road (NW Corner off Scottsdale & Curry)
Tempe, AZ 85382
480.966.1660

nsxter

11-11-2007, 12:38

I'll be there. This sounds good for all nsx owners, getting to know the car and how to maintain it....I hope to see the other phoenix area crowd as well....

Viewfromtheback

12-06-2007, 11:37

I'll be there. This sounds good for all nsx owners, getting to know the car and how to maintain it....I hope to see the other phoenix area crowd as well....

I'll be by as well COZ... I won't bring the sherrif either...

AAP is run by a stand up guy, trained tech's, and most importantly.... FOCUSED SERVICE AND CUSTOMER SATISFATION

I recommend that the community (especially in AZ) helps make this needed addition a reality

I won't take my car to another place in AZ.... period

bonds

12-06-2007, 13:44

Just wanted to introduce myself, my name is Brandon Bonds I am the head technician at AAP in Tempe AZ. I have 5 years with Acura North Scottsdale, and 5 years with Acura Of Tempe. I currently have 852 completed Acura training modules. I've trained at Honda Of America in Torrance CA, as well as the Western Honda Training Center in Denver CO. We have more than $75,000 invested in Snap On Tools, Equipment, and all the Honda Special Tools needed to repair any Honda or Acura Vehicle. We are a FULL SERVICE shop specializing in all Honda & Acura vehicles.

We here at AAP our very dedicated to all of our customers, quality of work, and honesty above anything else. Our goal is 100% satisfaction with all the services that we provide.

I'm looking foward to meeting those of you that stop for our tech session and spending some time with you.

See you Saturday.
Brandon

NsXMas

12-06-2007, 17:30

I'll be by as well COZ... I won't bring the sherrif either...

AAP is run by a stand up guy, trained tech's, and most importantly.... FOCUSED SERVICE AND CUSTOMER SATISFATION

I recommend that the community (especially in AZ) helps make this needed addition a reality

I won't take my car to another place in AZ.... periodHey Ross, long time no see. How's it going?

Have you serviced your car at AAP?

I'm a bit concerned because of their affiliation with Dali - who's been known to con customers out of their money, which is why I'm shying away from AAP for now.

NsXMas

12-06-2007, 17:31

bonds

12-06-2007, 17:41

I do not work outside of my shop.

Coz

12-06-2007, 17:41

NsXMas

12-06-2007, 17:49

Mark from Dali is a friend of mine and has never burned me. I have received everything from Mark I have ordered on a timely basis. In the thousands of dollars I've spend with Dali, I have never been burned or left out to dry once.

However, Mark has nothing to do with my shop or how I conduct my business. Mark lives in San Diego and I am here in Arizona.
So until you get to know me, my work ethics, my morals or my work quality, please do not group me into anyone else's persona, it's not appreciated and it's uncalled for.

Stop and meet us, then decide who we are and what we're all about.

Sorry if I pre-judged you, but Dali's association with you was not clear to me at all, especially given how you both co-sponsored the race at Firebird, which seemed to indicate *to me* that you do have business ties.

We are all judged by the friends we make, and especially in business, when a friend burns other people - customers, you have to be wary of these relationships and public perceptions.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. I might feel enough at ease down the road to bring my NSX to your shop, but right now I have my service needs met through the existing long standing NSX shops in AZ.

For us NSX owners it's great to have more NSX shops open, giving us more options.

We've never met, so no hard feelings or anything.

Coz

12-06-2007, 18:23

No problem and no hard feelings at all.

I understand what your saying. I talk to Mark on pretty much a daily basis and give him grief everytime I see posts about someone not happy with his service. I bang on him pretty hard about it when I see it. I put myself in their shoes and I know how I would feel. I don't think it's cool. But I cannot not run Marks business for him, Marks a big boy and he makes his own decisions, right or wrong. But as I said, I have bought over $10,000.00 worth of parts from Mark and have not been burned or lied to once. If it ever does happen, you can bet I will deal with it and him in my own way.

Yes, I put together the Firebird track date with Mark and will probably put more track dates together with Mark in the furure. I like tracking my car and feel there isn't enough NSX type events going on. I'm not into car shows or garage queens. I'm into driving my car everyday and loving every minute of it. So the more track days the better as far as I'm concerned. As you know we cancelled that track date due to posers talking the big talk but not following through, but the fact is, Mark stood by his committment and covered half the expenses even though he was not there on that Sat, while I held the 1 day event for invited guest anyway. Mark sent me a check for 2 grand to cover his half anyway. I'd say that was pretty honorable regardless.

I didn't open this shop to compete with any other NSX shops. I don't have to and don't want to. I don't care what others do. I know what we have and what we do. I know the kind of service we provide and will continue to provide for our customers. I know what is important to us at AAP is not ripping people off, not lying to them or puffing them up with BS. All we want to do is provide quality service and be completey honest, even if we screw up. It's exactly what I would expect from anyone I do business with. Unfortunatley this is not always the case with other shops.

Like I said, stop by and meet us, then decide who we are and what we're all about. You'll be glad you did.

Come by Sat. for the tech session and say hello. We'd love to meet you.

Sorry if I pre-judged you, but Dali's association with you was not clear to me at all, especially given how you both co-sponsored the race at Firebird, which seemed to indicate *to me* that you do have business ties.

We are all judged by the friends we make, and especially in business, when a friend burns other people - customers, you have to be wary of these relationships and public perceptions.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor. I might feel enough at ease down the road to bring my NSX to your shop, but right now I have my service needs met through the existing long standing NSX shops in AZ.

For us NSX owners it's great to have more NSX shops open, giving us more options.

We've never met, so no hard feelings or anything.

NsXMas

12-06-2007, 18:31

No problem and no hard feelings at all.

I understand what your saying. I talk to Mark on pretty much a daily basis and give him grief everytime I see posts about someone not happy with his service. I bang on him pretty hard about it when I see it. I put myself in their shoes and I know how I would feel. I don't think it's cool. But I cannot not run Marks business for him, Marks a big boy and he makes his own decisions, right or wrong. But as I said, I have bought over $10,000.00 worth of parts from Mark and have not been burned or lied to once. If it ever does happen, you can bet I will deal with it and him in my own way.

Yes, I put together the Firebird track date with Mark and will probably put more track dates together with Mark in the furure. I like tracking my car and feel there isn't enough NSX type events going on. I'm not into car shows or garage queens. I'm into driving my car everyday and loving every minute of it. So the more track days the better as far as I'm concerned. As you know we cancelled that track date due to posers talking the big talk but not following through, but the fact is, Mark stood by his committment and covered half the expenses even though he was not there on that Sat, while I held the 1 day event for invited guest anyway. Mark sent me a check for 2 grand to cover his half anyway. I'd say that was pretty honorable regardless.

I didn't open this shop to compete with any other NSX shops. I don't have to and don't want to. I don't care what others do. I know what we have and what we do. I know the kind of service we provide and will continue to provide for our customers. I know what is important to us at AAP is not ripping people off, not lying to them or puffing them up with BS. All we want to do is provide quality service and be completey honest, even if we screw up. It's exactly what I would expect from anyone I do business with. Unfortunatley this is not always the case with other shops.

Like I said, stop by and meet us, then decide who we are and what we're all about. You'll be glad you did.

Come by Sat. for the tech session and say hello. We'd love to meet you.
Interesting.

If I have time I'll try to stop by on Saturday.

What does Mark say about all the buyers who claim he ripped them off? Since you guys talk everyday you must have some insight, right?

I know you have no control over his business, but the fact that you are still so close friends with someone who has so egregiously ripped off members of the NSX community troubles me. Personally, I'd sever all ties to anyone that rips off people in this community.

You'd probably never rip anyone off, but as a new, inexperienced potential customer, I'm very paranoid about taking a risk with someone that has close ties to another entity that scams customers.

JIMAZ

12-06-2007, 18:42

I'll see you on Sat Brandon. Great to have you break out on your own! Other than myself, you are about the only person I will let touch my NSX:)

See you this weekend rain or shine...

Jim

bonds

12-06-2007, 18:56

Thanks Jim, see you on Saturday bro..

Viewfromtheback

12-06-2007, 18:56

Frank I am doing well thanks for asking....

I have been waiting to say anything about AAP for some time now... really waiting for the facility to be fully functional which it has been... I'll comment on all 3 area's

AAP - This is the first NSX shop to stand behind what all NSX owners need more than others. There are many companies offering aftermarket parts that sometimes fail. It is unfair to the car owner to pay the labor twice(sometimes in excess of 1000... aka clutch) and it is unfair to the shop/tech to do the job twice for payment once. AAP has worked on my car... and only because they have written on my invoice that if the parts associated with the labor fail.... they are willing to replace the part and discount the labor the second time to 50%...(when it's not their fault).. put that in your SOS tail pipe and smoke it

Jim - If you ever get a chance to meet the guy you will realize his passion for the NSX, the current terrible selection of service shops, and racing cars all together. He stands by Dali because Mark never screwed him over... if it ever happened, he would be the same guy who calls him out on a fourum on prime as he did with Chris.... Don't expect the same bull shit with Jim as you will with Chris.... Jim actually cares if your car is running. If you don't beleive me, service the car there... if something goes wrong... tell the story of how he handled it.

Brandon - I actually met with Brandon and put him in touch with Jim after our lunch meeting. I have been looking for guy who actually knew what he was doing in AZ for sometime. His experience speaks for itself. His resume actually put his paycheck at Acura (the job he left to start AAP) in high tax bracket. He was motivated to start a service orientated shop after I explained how "WE" as an NSX community get treated at the alternatives..... again.. the only dude that will touch my car again is the above mentioned...

as far as the comment

We are all judged by the friends we make, and especially in business, when a friend burns other people - customers, you have to be wary of these relationships and public perceptions.

If you don't know anyone who has been burned at SOS you need to get out more. Chris is a website designer... all the service is done by his quailified and trained techs which I do have respect for. His lack of respect,personality, and compassion over the phone and in person makes me want to open an NSX shop. I don't need to anymore.

Now, SOS did a damn good job in the past at marketing our community and providing what we wanted. More products exsist today than ever and I think we are all estatic.

In addition to that... I dont know a single NSX owner who is happy with the total bill when they leave that place. Salt on the wound is how he treats you leaving with the bill.

AAP is here to work on our cars cheaper than the dealership and better than the alternative.

Im not a prognosticator... but if I had to predict the future based on my experiences... SOS will be REMEMBERED not praised... just like RM Racing is...

Coz

12-06-2007, 18:59

Cool. Will be good to meet you if you can get by.

As for Mark, Mark does carry several parts that we all need and want. Mark has always been good to me.

Being the independant thinker that I am, I make my own decisions on whom I associate and do business with. I am not and have never been a follower, and I'm to old to start now. If someone burns me once, shame on them, burn me twice, shame on me and I will not let it happen again.

I've dealt with some of the other NSX vendors and was not impressed in the slightest. So as a result, I don't trust them and will not ever buy anything from them again or allow them to touch either of my NSX's.

So, does this mean that anyone that continue's to deal with these other vendor's should stop dealing with them or be considered a bad guy too ?

Interesting.

If I have time I'll try to stop by on Saturday.

What does Mark say about all the buyers who claim he ripped them off? Since you guys talk everyday you must have some insight, right?

I know you have no control over his business, but the fact that you are still so close friends with someone who has so egregiously ripped off members of the NSX community troubles me. Personally, I'd sever all ties to anyone that rips off people in this community.

I know you'd probably never rip anyone off, but as a new, inexperienced potential customer, I'm very paranoid about taking a risk with someone that has close ties to another entity that scams customers.

Coz

12-06-2007, 19:04

Jim,
Looking forward to meeting you. Have heard many great things about you (lies, I'm sure) :wink:
See you Sat...
Coz

I'll see you on Sat Brandon. Great to have you break out on your own! Other than myself, you are about the only person I will let touch my NSX:)

See you this weekend rain or shine...

Jim

Twindragon

12-06-2007, 19:37

I wouldn't mind stopping by (as long as it doesn't rain...)

Coz

12-06-2007, 19:53

Would really like that Twin Dragon. Would love to take a look at that awsome Dragon I keep hearing so many great things about.

We're keeping our fingers crossed it doesn't rain. If we get up in the morning and it is raining, I am going to postpone it until the following Sat. Let's see what happens. So far the weather forecast is only calling for 20% chance of rain. Let's hope it stays that way.

I wouldn't mind stopping by (as long as it doesn't rain...)

NsXMas

12-06-2007, 20:01

Interesting Ross.

You mentioned that AAP has written on their invoice that they'll replace a failed part and discount labor 50%. Have they actually done that for you?

It's one thing to say someone will do something, it's another thing altogether to follow through and actually do it.

As small as this community is, you know there is bad-mouthing about every NSX vendor, so I always take a wait and see approach with every new NSX vendor to see the positive and negative fallout before using them.

Frank I am doing well thanks for asking....

I have been waiting to say anything about AAP for some time now... really waiting for the facility to be fully functional which it has been... I'll comment on all 3 area's

AAP - This is the first NSX shop to stand behind what all NSX owners need more than others. There are many companies offering aftermarket parts that sometimes fail. It is unfair to the car owner to pay the labor twice(sometimes in excess of 1000... aka clutch) and it is unfair to the shop/tech to do the job twice for payment once. AAP has worked on my car... and only because they have written on my invoice that if the parts associated with the labor fail.... they are willing to replace the part and discount the labor the second time to 50%...(when it's not their fault).. put that in your SOS tail pipe and smoke it

Jim - If you ever get a chance to meet the guy you will realize his passion for the NSX, the current terrible selection of service shops, and racing cars all together. He stands by Dali because Mark never screwed him over... if it ever happened, he would be the same guy who calls him out on a fourum on prime as he did with Chris.... Don't expect the same bull shit with Jim as you will with Chris.... Jim actually cares if your car is running. If you don't beleive me, service the car there... if something goes wrong... tell the story of how he handled it.

Brandon - I actually met with Brandon and put him in touch with Jim after our lunch meeting. I have been looking for guy who actually knew what he was doing in AZ for sometime. His experience speaks for itself. His resume actually put his paycheck at Acura (the job he left to start AAP) in high tax bracket. He was motivated to start a service orientated shop after I explained how "WE" as an NSX community get treated at the alternatives..... again.. the only dude that will touch my car again is the above mentioned...

as far as the comment

We are all judged by the friends we make, and especially in business, when a friend burns other people - customers, you have to be wary of these relationships and public perceptions.

If you don't know anyone who has been burned at SOS you need to get out more. Chris is a website designer... all the service is done by his quailified and trained techs which I do have respect for. His lack of respect,personality, and compassion over the phone and in person makes me want to open an NSX shop. I don't need to anymore.

Now, SOS did a damn good job in the past at marketing our community and providing what we wanted. More products exsist today than ever and I think we are all estatic.

In addition to that... I dont know a single NSX owner who is happy with the total bill when they leave that place. Salt on the wound is how he treats you leaving with the bill.

AAP is here to work on our cars cheaper than the dealership and better than the alternative.

Im not a prognosticator... but if I had to predict the future based on my experiences... SOS will be REMEMBERED not praised... just like RM Racing is...

NsXMas

12-06-2007, 20:05

...
So, does this mean that anyone that continue's to deal with these other vendor's should stop dealing with them or be considered a bad guy too ?

I don't know. Actions are louder than words, and when a vendor fails repeatedly to deliver for a paying customer, these actions are pretty loud. And when someone chooses to continue to do business with them, that says something about the ethics and morals of that person / business also.

I'm not specifically singling anyone out here, just saying as a generality, as a customer I don't feel comfortable dealing with vendors what continue to deal with others who are known to rip people off. How do I know if that business will feel okay about ripping me off in the future, if they can live with the conscience of doing business with the scam artists?

That's all I'm voicing, I guess.

Hope to see you Saturday.

Twindragon

12-06-2007, 21:08

LOL yeah right.

Would really like that Twin Dragon. Would love to take a look at that awsome Dragon I keep hearing so many great things about.

Coz

12-07-2007, 01:52

You first...
no shit. I hear it's a monster. i want to see it.
love monsters.

LOL yeah right.

Coz

12-07-2007, 02:41

NsXMas,

Let's start off with something smart, nobody is that perfect. People make mistakes, people get caught up in things. Shit happens. I feel one way about someone and you feel your way about someone else. Who are you to judge anyone ? Who am I ? Can you make such judgments on anyone you haven't even met ? If Mark, Chris, Shad, Shane or anyone else, even me, ever burn you, then and only then do you have a right to cast judgment. Until then, it's pretty arrogant of anyone to cast judgment on anyone for the actions of others.

Understand this. I am not a whore for NSX business. Personally I think the NSX's are a pain in the ass to work on, time consuming and absolutely leave no tolerance for error. They test your ability continually. I have 2 and love them both to death, which will probably be mine. Most awesome car I've ever owned out of the 17-18 exotics I've gone through. I can't even begin to tell you how much enjoyment I get from driving my car. I do it daily at 100 miles a day. My current one I've had for 8 months and have put 40,000 miles onto a 375 rwhp NSX as my daily driver and track car, how many can say that ?

It wasn't me that did all this. I'm just the caretaker. Guys like Shane, my Dad... & Mike my brother from Autowave, Shad, an incredible man, Bob Kinney, the most generous man I've ever met in this community, Ken Sampson, very well trusted in more ways than you can imagine, Dave Levy, LOL, Mr. always working on something and thank God for the many things I have from him....These are the guys that you should have the absolute respect for. These are the guys that spend countless hours being frustrated to help us better what we have. These are the guys we call gear heads, the one's that I truly respect and learn from because they are the one's like me that actually drive their cars and turn wrenches. They don't copy others as some do, they R&D as true lovers of a passion. These are the guys that would hurt my feelings if they ever had something bad to say about me. I want their respect more than they will ever need mine.

If I learn from the best, then my customer's get the best. That's what this is all about.
I have no real ill feeling about other vendors or service providers, not anymore...I know now, who knows what their talking about in this community.

The bottom line is, you can bring me your car to work on or you don't. Makes no difference to me. The less I work on other NSX's, the more time I have to work on my own NSX's.

I didn't open this shop to work on NSX's. I opened it to make money. I make this money on normal everyday driven Accords, Civics’, Odyssey’s, the TL's, Integra’s, etc. Not on NSX's. Because with NSX's, we end up with a lot more labor hours into them than we billed for. We don't nickel and dime someone as some shops do.

The NSX is my passion at this point in life. I drive one, my wife drives one, my boys want one, and now we all work on them because we want to, not because we have too.

I have been around the NSX community since 2000. I've watched, learned and now own them. Been building cars and turning wrenches for 35 years. Have raced SCCA Regional and Nationals in Formula Ford, Formula V, Super Vee and Sports 2000. Drifted away from racing for 20 years, but never have I lost my passion for the cars and the people that drive them.

Just don't judge me until you get to know me.

When we meet, I am positive you and I will come to an understanding and will actually appreciate each other. We are not that far apart.

I don't know. Actions are louder than words, and when a vendor fails repeatedly to deliver for a paying customer, these actions are pretty loud. And when someone chooses to continue to do business with them, that says something about the ethics and morals of that person / business also.

I'm not specifically singling anyone out here, just saying as a generality, as a customer I don't feel comfortable dealing with vendors what continue to deal with others who are known to rip people off. How do I know if that business will feel okay about ripping me off in the future, if they can live with the conscience of doing business with the scam artists?

That's all I'm voicing, I guess.

Hope to see you Saturday.

Coz

12-07-2007, 10:14

Ross,
In all fairness to other vendors and SOS...Parts break, that happens with all parts. Some just faster than others.
It's every shops nightmare to go through a job, do it right and then have a part fail a short time later. We as shops and consumers have no control over this if we installed them correctly and use them right. All we can do as shops is help our customers get through the nightmare.
Sure, the makers of these parts 99.9% of the time will replace them if it wasn't the installer or end user error, but that's it. They could care less about the labor hours spent putting them on or the money it took doing it.
I have been there and had to deal with this many times throughout my life with all cars. Knowing how I feel when this happens to myself is why I will work with a customer after the fact. If something breaks because of part failure and NOT abuse, then I am willing to charge 1/2 my labor rate to fix it again. But that's only because I know what's it like to be in that position and have to pay full price to fix something twice that wasn't your fault to begin with. It sucks. If it was the shops error, then there would be no labor charge at all. To me this is called standing by your customers and making friends along the way.
I can't control what other shops do, that's their business. But I can and will control what AAP does.
I didn't want this post to get into a name calling battle or rate the vendor battle. I don't want the tech sessions to turn into a situation where we stand around and bad mouth others.
It's all about doing Tech Sessions for owners, having a good time, learning things from each other and making friends.

Let's leave it at that brother, we'll have more fun that way.....

Coz

12-07-2007, 11:16

The weather forecast is saying Partly Cloudy for tomorrow...
Since we're putting this Tech Session on for NSX's owners that want to attend, what do you guys think ?

Should be go ahead with it tomorrow or put it off a week until next Sat ?
I'm doing this for you guys so I'm going to let you decide.

You're thoughts ?

waldorf

12-07-2007, 12:22

You're thoughts ?

Well... I would vote for next Saturday only because I have a conflict this weekend.

However, my wife is due on the 15th and about to *pop*, so I might have a conflict next weekend, also. :eek:

Looking forward to seeing the new shop. :)

Coz

12-07-2007, 12:35

LOL...we'll see how it goes.
A BIG Congratulations on the new addition on it's way...Way cool. I have 4 myself and wouldn't give them up for the world. Well, most of the time anyway...
You're always welcome to stop by, Tech Session or not.
We look forward to meeting you.
Let us know when the baby arrives !
We wish you the best !

Well... I would vote for next Saturday only because I have a conflict this weekend.
However, my wife is due on the 15th and about to *pop*, so I might have a conflict next weekend, also. :eek:
Looking forward to seeing the new shop. :)

Coz

12-07-2007, 13:26

HEY GUYS !

I've heard from a bunch of you about tomorrow. I agree.

We are going to postpone the Tech Session until next Sat, Dec. 15th.
There's no point in doing the Tech Session tomorrow with the heavy chance of rain. No one including myself wants to take thier NSX's out in major rain, to much of a pain in the butt to clean afterwards. I know since the Willow Springs track event last week was a rain fest and I had to spend 5 hours cleaning up my NSX after :-)

Besides, doing a Tech Session when no one brings there cars is pointless.

So, let's reschedule it for Saturday, December 15th. from 10:00 AM to 3:00 PM.

Any questions, please feel free to call us.
Thanks.

NsXMas

12-07-2007, 13:52

Thanks for the clarification Jim.

Quick question - how do you determine abuse? What do you use to define abuse vs non-abuse?

The reason I ask is, because as we all know and love Ross, he can be a monster at the wheel, when he wants to be. :biggrin:

However, the night when he broke his brand new clutch on the 101 freeway, my family and I were with him, and knew it was not abuse. The clutch simply exploded while he was decelerating.

However, those who know how Ross drives, could declare "well Ross, you're very hard on your car, so it's abuse". But we who were there, and helped him tow his NSX to his house, knew he was not abusing the car.

So how do you do an autopsy on a broken NSX, and quantify it as "abuse" vs "non-abuse"??

Abuse can be very fuzzy, so help me understand your guidelines for what "abuse" means, and how you will determine that.

Ross,
In all fairness to other vendors and SOS...Parts break, that happens with all parts. Some just faster than others.
It's every shops nightmare to go through a job, do it right and then have a part fail a short time later. We as shops and consumers have no control over this if we installed them correctly and use them right. All we can do as shops is help our customers get through the nightmare.
Sure, the makers of these parts 99.9% of the time will replace them if it wasn't the installer or end user error, but that's it. They could care less about the labor hours spent putting them on or the money it took doing it.
I have been there and had to deal with this many times throughout my life with all cars. Knowing how I feel when this happens to myself is why I will work with a customer after the fact. If something breaks because of part failure and NOT abuse, then I am willing to charge 1/2 my labor rate to fix it again. But that's only because I know what's it like to be in that position and have to pay full price to fix something twice that wasn't your fault to begin with. It sucks. If it was the shops error, then there would be no labor charge at all. To me this is called standing by your customers and making friends along the way.
I can't control what other shops do, that's their business. But I can and will control what AAP does.
I didn't want this post to get into a name calling battle or rate the vendor battle. I don't want the tech sessions to turn into a situation where we stand around and bad mouth others.
It's all about doing Tech Sessions for owners, having a good time, learning things from each other and making friends.

Let's leave it at that brother, we'll have more fun that way.....

Viewfromtheback

12-07-2007, 13:59

NsXMas

12-07-2007, 14:01

no parts have broken on my car so I can't speak for it yet.. the key is that I have an upfront agreement. That's what you need in order to get a non-abusive claim.

If and when it happens.. I will be sure to post the conclusion.

I just repect a guy who is willing to even try to help someone out on a high labor, high hour job, semi-rare car...

Lets catch up sometime in person... you and Kelvin

Sounds great dude. You still owe me a barbeque for helping you tow your car. :biggrin: :biggrin:

Looking forward to it, and hope no more parts break for you so you don't have to test out the warranty!! :biggrin: :biggrin:

Coz

12-07-2007, 14:21

Non abuse to me is when you treat something with some respect and it breaks. If the part is meant to be used hard, then it should stand up to hard use. That's not abuse. That's operating the part within it's guidelines.

As an example and in Ross's situation, we all know how touchy NSX's clutches can be. If your driving it hard but doing it right and it breaks, I would consider that non abuse. If on the other hand you bring your RPM's up to 6000 and dump the clutch, that to me is abuse. It was not designed to handle such use.

Yes, Ross is a Madman, a great guy and I love him to death. He's been a great friend. I know how hard he can be on his NSX, I've driven behind him many times....:eek: But I also trust Ross and know he will tell me the truth no matter how bad from experience.

The determination on such situations comes from believing what someone is telling you, trusting that person, inspecting the parts, talking to others that might have been there too and doing some research on the parts to see what others are saying about failures that have occurred. If it is a design flaw, then it benefit's us both to find it and go in a different direction replacement wise. The idea is to stop it from happening again.

This works both ways from the stand point that I have to have trust in what a customer is telling me and by the same token, the customer in what I am telling them.

It’s a judgment call, one that I will make on the customers side if there was any doubt. Like I said, I've been there and done that. I've been around long enough to know when someone is BS'ing me or not. I was born at night, just not last night :wink: Now if it continually happened with the same customer, then there might be a problem.

It sucks to get stuck paying for something twice since and I have been there many times in life. I also feel that charging 1/2 shop rate at that point is better than nothing. We're still making some money for the time spent and more important, it shows that customer we will stand behind them as long as there's mutual respect and faith in each other.

This is how and what long lasting relationships are built on.

Thanks for the clarification Jim.
Quick question - how do you determine abuse? What do you use to define abuse vs non-abuse?
The reason I ask is, because as we all know and love Ross, he can be a monster at the wheel, when he wants to be. :biggrin:
However, the night when he broke his brand new clutch on the 101 freeway, my family and I were with him, and knew it was not abuse. The clutch simply exploded while he was decelerating.
However, those who know how Ross drives, could declare "well Ross, you're very hard on your car, so it's abuse". But we who were there, and helped him tow his NSX to his house, knew he was not abusing the car.
So how do you do an autopsy on a broken NSX, and quantify it as "abuse" vs "non-abuse"??
Abuse can be very fuzzy, so help me understand your guidelines for what "abuse" means, and how you will determine that.

Syonara

12-07-2007, 14:48

AAP - This is the first NSX shop to stand behind what all NSX owners need more than others. There are many companies offering aftermarket parts that sometimes fail. It is unfair to the car owner to pay the labor twice(sometimes in excess of 1000... aka clutch) and it is unfair to the shop/tech to do the job twice for payment once. AAP has worked on my car... and only because they have written on my invoice that if the parts associated with the labor fail.... they are willing to replace the part and discount the labor the second time to 50%...(when it's not their fault).. put that in your SOS tail pipe and smoke it

Jim - If you ever get a chance to meet the guy you will realize his passion for the NSX, the current terrible selection of service shops, and racing cars all together. He stands by Dali because Mark never screwed him over... if it ever happened, he would be the same guy who calls him out on a fourum on prime as he did with Chris.... Don't expect the same bull shit with Jim as you will with Chris.... Jim actually cares if your car is running. If you don't beleive me, service the car there... if something goes wrong... tell the story of how he handled it.

If you don't know anyone who has been burned at SOS you need to get out more. Chris is a website designer... all the service is done by his quailified and trained techs which I do have respect for. His lack of respect,personality, and compassion over the phone and in person makes me want to open an NSX shop. I don't need to anymore.

Now, SOS did a damn good job in the past at marketing our community and providing what we wanted. More products exsist today than ever and I think we are all estatic.

In addition to that... I dont know a single NSX owner who is happy with the total bill when they leave that place. Salt on the wound is how he treats you leaving with the bill.

Im not a prognosticator... but if I had to predict the future based on my experiences... SOS will be REMEMBERED not praised... just like RM Racing is...

Damn Ross, I don't have any issues with you but are the personal attacks really necessary? I know me and many others have been on group drives with you and have seen first hand how you drive your car; aggressive would probably be an understatement. Maybe some of your parts failures would have to do with that ... and just because your clutch failed when you were driving normally doesn't mean that you didn't cause any damage beforehand which lead to an eventual breaking point. Back to the point though, it's pretty lame to attack Chris directly because you had a bad experience at his shop. That said, good luck with your car, when something expensive breaks it sucks; regardless of how it happened.

For what its worth, I've been around since 2001, and ever since Chris and S.O.S. came here I've been a repeat customer with zero complaints. No complaints about my bill, prices, labor, quality of work, customer service, or any other aspect of his business. I don't think I can say that about any other company I've dealt with. Chris has always been nice to me and has helped me out on more than one occasion when he had no obligation to do so. Also, I've been satisfied when leaving S.O.S. after seeing my bill; always fair and always what was expected.

Also, I don't know Jim, so I can't (and won't) speak about him at all. I will say that it is cool there is another shop in town and tech days do sound interesting. I'd like to attend one but not if theres going to be a weird "funk" in the air from people who choose to get their cars worked on at different places for whatever reason. I'm always up for learning more about my car, and it would be great if there was no drama.

Finally, if I ever had to order something that I couldn't get through Chris here, it would definitely be COD. I don't see how anyone would order otherwise at this point after reading the countless threads. Like Frank; I am interested to know if Jim has any insight about what Mark has to say about everyones complaints since he seems to deal with him on a daily basis.

Side note: Whats up Frank? Haven't seen you in a while, how's your brother doing?

Sean

Coz

12-07-2007, 15:16

Great post Sean.
I promise you there will be NO drama at the tech sessions about who gets work done where. The tech sessions are not about pointing fingers and I will stop any drama if it starts.

I've been doing Tech Sessions for 6 years with DeTomaso's. There are several vendors out there that work on them as well. We have been able to do them without all the BS and everyone does walk away knowing they've learned something or have shared something with others.

The NSX Tech Sessions will be no different. They are going to be about the cars, not personalities.

I can assure you I could care less about Chris's business or what he does or doesn't do. I am not at all interested in taking Chris's customers in the least.
People will make their own decisions as times goes by. Freedom of choice :-)
If your happy where you're at and who's providing your services, by all means, stay with it. I know I would.
I would never take that personal or allow anyone in my shop to. That's not what this is about.

Looking forward to meeting you Sean.

Working on Mark :-)

4cruizn

12-07-2007, 18:22

Just wanted to introduce myself, my name is Brandon Bonds I am the head technician at AAP in Tempe AZ.
Hey Brandon! So you're at AAP now. You worked on my Legend a number of times at Acura of Tempe. I was in there yesterday talking to Chuck and he said that you'd left the dealership. You might remember my car -- it's a tan 2-door 1994 6-speed coupe. You changed all my (28 total) cooling system hoses awhile back. I'm happy to report that the car is still cruising right along at 305,200 miles and counting. I am going to stop by this event if I get any time at all. I'm working this weekend but I should be able to break away to swing by and join in the festivities. -- Tyson

Edit: Dang, I just read that the event was postponed until next Saturday, and I'll be in Utah that weekend. Sucks.

Coz

12-07-2007, 20:45

Tyson,
Your welcome to stop by anytime, tech session or not. We're there Monday through Friday from 7am to 6 PM. I look forward to meeting you.

NsXMas

12-07-2007, 21:47

...
Side note: Whats up Frank? Haven't seen you in a while, how's your brother doing?

Sean

Hey Sean, doing great. Let's get together some time. We've all been busy with work, but damn I miss hanging out with you guys.

I'll send you a PM with my contact info.

Take care man.

01blacks4

12-07-2007, 23:15

man im just glad that there seems to me more NSX activity going on in town....
lets keep it up...
get your crap worked on where ya want, buy stuff where ya want...but there are way too many cars sitting in the garage these days......

i hopefully will stop by....no car right now...but ill try and stop by.

marc

gabej

12-08-2007, 09:15

well said 01blacks4.
good luck on the shop jim.
will try and pass by the shop next weekend
gabe

Coz

12-08-2007, 09:26

Well said Marc.
Car or no car, you are always welcome to stop by.

man im just glad that there seems to me more NSX activity going on in town....
lets keep it up...
get your crap worked on where ya want, buy stuff where ya want...but there are way too many cars sitting in the garage these days......

i hopefully will stop by....no car right now...but ill try and stop by.
marc

Coz

12-08-2007, 09:28

Hey Gabe,
Long time no see.
Thanks.
Hope you can drop by, will be great to see you.

well said 01blacks4.
good luck on the shop jim.
will try and pass by the shop next weekend
gabe

bonds

12-10-2007, 09:49

Hey Brandon! So you're at AAP now. You worked on my Legend a number of times at Acura of Tempe. I was in there yesterday talking to Chuck and he said that you'd left the dealership. You might remember my car -- it's a tan 2-door 1994 6-speed coupe. You changed all my (28 total) cooling system hoses awhile back. I'm happy to report that the car is still cruising right along at 305,200 miles and counting. I am going to stop by this event if I get any time at all. I'm working this weekend but I should be able to break away to swing by and join in the festivities. -- Tyson

Edit: Dang, I just read that the event was postponed until next Saturday, and I'll be in Utah that weekend. Sucks.
Tyson what's up bro, Of course I remember you, the cleanest Legend on the planet. Let me know I you need anything?

Chris@SoS

12-10-2007, 13:29

Ross --

No disrespect to Jim on his thread, however, I wanted to point out some glaring mistruths on your post.

You are confusing your "clutch issue" with ScienceofSpeed and Basch Acura. We have never sold or installed a clutch for you. Ever. Your issue was with Basch Acura installing and then having a clutch fail in your car - not with our company. I haven't the slightest idea why you would confuse this rather pertinent detail. Please check your facts.

I'm sorry to read you feel personal attacks are neccissary. I don't see the justification.

regards,
-- Chris

Frank I am doing well thanks for asking....

I have been waiting to say anything about AAP for some time now... really waiting for the facility to be fully functional which it has been... I'll comment on all 3 area's

AAP - This is the first NSX shop to stand behind what all NSX owners need more than others. There are many companies offering aftermarket parts that sometimes fail. It is unfair to the car owner to pay the labor twice(sometimes in excess of 1000... aka clutch) and it is unfair to the shop/tech to do the job twice for payment once. AAP has worked on my car... and only because they have written on my invoice that if the parts associated with the labor fail.... they are willing to replace the part and discount the labor the second time to 50%...(when it's not their fault).. put that in your SOS tail pipe and smoke it

Jim - If you ever get a chance to meet the guy you will realize his passion for the NSX, the current terrible selection of service shops, and racing cars all together. He stands by Dali because Mark never screwed him over... if it ever happened, he would be the same guy who calls him out on a fourum on prime as he did with Chris.... Don't expect the same bull shit with Jim as you will with Chris.... Jim actually cares if your car is running. If you don't beleive me, service the car there... if something goes wrong... tell the story of how he handled it.

Brandon - I actually met with Brandon and put him in touch with Jim after our lunch meeting. I have been looking for guy who actually knew what he was doing in AZ for sometime. His experience speaks for itself. His resume actually put his paycheck at Acura (the job he left to start AAP) in high tax bracket. He was motivated to start a service orientated shop after I explained how "WE" as an NSX community get treated at the alternatives..... again.. the only dude that will touch my car again is the above mentioned...

as far as the comment

We are all judged by the friends we make, and especially in business, when a friend burns other people - customers, you have to be wary of these relationships and public perceptions.

If you don't know anyone who has been burned at SOS you need to get out more. Chris is a website designer... all the service is done by his quailified and trained techs which I do have respect for. His lack of respect,personality, and compassion over the phone and in person makes me want to open an NSX shop. I don't need to anymore.

Now, SOS did a damn good job in the past at marketing our community and providing what we wanted. More products exsist today than ever and I think we are all estatic.

In addition to that... I dont know a single NSX owner who is happy with the total bill when they leave that place. Salt on the wound is how he treats you leaving with the bill.

AAP is here to work on our cars cheaper than the dealership and better than the alternative.

Im not a prognosticator... but if I had to predict the future based on my experiences... SOS will be REMEMBERED not praised... just like RM Racing is...

Coz

12-10-2007, 14:11

None taken Chris.

[QUOTE=Chris@SoS;912902]Ross --
No disrespect to Jim on his thread, however, I wanted to point out some glaring mistruths on your post.
regards,
-- Chris

Viewfromtheback

12-10-2007, 14:20

Chris...

the cluch was a scenario used on what happens if something breaks...

My issues with you go way farther... I even remeber when I addressed them to you your reply via email was... I don't see them the same as you do

if you would like... I can post them all in a list and make them public?

Coz

12-10-2007, 14:35

Hey guys,
How about you please start another thread if this is where this is going.
This tread is about the upcoming Tech Session.
Thanks.

Chris...
the cluch was a scenario used on what happens if something breaks...
My issues with you go way farther... I even remeber when I addressed them to you your reply via email was... I don't see them the same as you do
if you would like... I can post them all in a list and make them public?

Coz

12-13-2007, 03:22

OK guys, the weather man says clear skys for Saturday.
The Tech Session is on........
10am to 3pm....
We have several cars showing up and lots to do...
See you there.
Jim

MYNSX

12-23-2007, 08:23