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Where are all the Production deliveries ??
- Thread starter thunderNSX
- Start date
Nice pair - guess it's been a while should swing by to check out the new colors in showroom
If you guys ever get a Type-R, please let us know ASAP
With 13 cars sold in November was surprised at that number
given $20K back from Acura on the 2018's. + Have no idea
how many were left over '17's then moving forward, the '18 & finally no rebate 19 models.
Is there a reasonable magic number where the base MSRP needs to be
for the NSX to have some decent sales figures - everyone's opinion?
$130K MSRP?
given $20K back from Acura on the 2018's. + Have no idea
how many were left over '17's then moving forward, the '18 & finally no rebate 19 models.
Is there a reasonable magic number where the base MSRP needs to be
for the NSX to have some decent sales figures - everyone's opinion?
$130K MSRP?
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- Joined
- 19 November 2018
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- 74
As a recent buyer I can really weigh in on this given that I weighed all the options like two weeks ago.
On the one hand you have the GTR and on the other you have the R8 and Porsche models. NSX has to fit between the two in order to find its market.
I think in order to be competitive, Honda/Acura needs to price the base car at $125k. They really need more attractive options for this car. Personally I think there's a ton room for pushing the car to $180k with options like:
- Targa top ($10k-$15k)
- Glass roof ($5k)
- Auto-folding mirrors ($1500)
- Surround Camera ($3000)
- Sports Exhaust ($10k-$15k easily)
- Active Aero ($5k)
- 2" lift ($3500)
- Variable ride height ($3500)
- More power ($depends)
- Drift-mode ($1000) And other electronically unlocked goodies
- HUD ($2500)
- Lambo Doors (Not optional obviously but would really up the value of the car to compete with cooler Supercars)
- Longer EV range (~20 miles)
- Weight reduction package ($10-$20k)
- Additional paint and accent colors (other manufacturers like Porsche easily add thousands to msrp with accent packages)
- Pre-sale of service and maintenance package
This way they can advertise the car as starting at $125k but sell them mostly in the $160-$170k range.
Also. Maybe at least lie about who the design team was and don't make it sound like a recent college grad did all the work. SMH. It's like they're trying to get ridiculed.
Only 13 cars sold in November 2018 is a bit surprising.
Speaking to John Watt of Acura on September 29th, he told me build allocations for October were at 100% and November build allocation was at 50%. I am not sure what that means in terms of actual numbers.
Some or even most may be dealer show room cars, not personal orders.
Built and Sold are two completely different things.
Speaking to John Watt of Acura on September 29th, he told me build allocations for October were at 100% and November build allocation was at 50%. I am not sure what that means in terms of actual numbers.
Some or even most may be dealer show room cars, not personal orders.
Built and Sold are two completely different things.
Warren - In cased you missed it, post # 3075 from the preceding page has the tale of the tape.
I think base MSRP of $125k and this car becomes a legitimate seller. We've already seen evidence that this is the sweet spot price point with the $30k incentive which moved a lot of cars.
They could follow the Nissan GTR playbook and sell a de-contented "pure" spec. Or follow the more successful Audi and Porsche playbooks and offer multiple tiers of cars at graduated price points.
Of course, they could easily roll out a Type S, Type R. Just take a stripper car with standard ceramics, light weight bucket seats, a "sport" exhaust, claim 100lb weight savings and a few extra horsepowers --> boom, special car, near zero development expense, and on the cover of every magazine for a couple months.
With the Acura badge and Acura dealer experience, this car needs to offer a significant value proposition over Audi, Porsche competition. Back in the '90s when the original NSX launched, the Acura brand carried a lot more weight on par with Lexus. These days it's more or less the fancy Honda company that makes the MDX. At the just-over-$100k price point, this car could exist in its own market and offer a distinct advantage to the Corvette, Carrera competition.
They could follow the Nissan GTR playbook and sell a de-contented "pure" spec. Or follow the more successful Audi and Porsche playbooks and offer multiple tiers of cars at graduated price points.
Of course, they could easily roll out a Type S, Type R. Just take a stripper car with standard ceramics, light weight bucket seats, a "sport" exhaust, claim 100lb weight savings and a few extra horsepowers --> boom, special car, near zero development expense, and on the cover of every magazine for a couple months.
With the Acura badge and Acura dealer experience, this car needs to offer a significant value proposition over Audi, Porsche competition. Back in the '90s when the original NSX launched, the Acura brand carried a lot more weight on par with Lexus. These days it's more or less the fancy Honda company that makes the MDX. At the just-over-$100k price point, this car could exist in its own market and offer a distinct advantage to the Corvette, Carrera competition.
⬆︎⬆︎⬆︎ Given the 8-10% increase in the new 911 (first release of the 992 will be the Carrera S & 4S - due the 2nd quarter 2019).
Decent builds will average MSRP $140 - $150K or more. Porsche will sell every one they make +1
Decent builds will average MSRP $140 - $150K or more. Porsche will sell every one they make +1
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I agree with some of your ideas. But you would honestly pay $15K for a "Sport exhaust"? My DPs cost $3K. Same thing.
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I would depending on how it sounds. Also just comparing it to other manufacturer's sports exhaust packages. I think it's easily worth $10k to have the OEM exhaust sound like a real supercar. $15k would be the ceiling.
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The bad month summarized
NSX 13
R8 91
AMG GT 103
GTR 23
Ford GT 15
LC 500 139
Why would 13 be a surprise? They haven't been moving any volume since the original big deals on 2017s dried up.
I don't get all this ad nauseum sweet spot pricing stuff. They are losing money on the program and aren't about to reprice it below marginal costs.
There is no room to store a targa top.
When the car came out I was expecting a glass roof. There was a Honda ad from the UK that showed an NSX with a glass roof but that never materialized.
And the easily roll out point. Have you ever spoken to someone inside Honda. Everything has to be proven. Remember, the first car built was delayed over a month because they didn't have the validated shipping program in place. They are not going to spend a bunch of money hopping up a car that doesn't sell so they can lose more money. to get any bragging rights, they would have to be above 700 HP. Who expects that to happen? If so you might be a Sears shareholder.
NSX 13
R8 91
AMG GT 103
GTR 23
Ford GT 15
LC 500 139
Why would 13 be a surprise? They haven't been moving any volume since the original big deals on 2017s dried up.
I don't get all this ad nauseum sweet spot pricing stuff. They are losing money on the program and aren't about to reprice it below marginal costs.
There is no room to store a targa top.
When the car came out I was expecting a glass roof. There was a Honda ad from the UK that showed an NSX with a glass roof but that never materialized.
And the easily roll out point. Have you ever spoken to someone inside Honda. Everything has to be proven. Remember, the first car built was delayed over a month because they didn't have the validated shipping program in place. They are not going to spend a bunch of money hopping up a car that doesn't sell so they can lose more money. to get any bragging rights, they would have to be above 700 HP. Who expects that to happen? If so you might be a Sears shareholder.
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Agreed - they got bad design advice. The smooth curve of the hood is now broken by the color line. Gloss black would have kept the lines clean.
They should make a hinge in the middle so that it could fold :redface:
Or make you keep the hard top at home and provide you with just a bikini top if you're stuck in inclement weather. :biggrin:
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I would totally be good with either of the two options.
Their costs are sunk. The money has been lost. Each additional car they roll off the line is virtually free from a cost standpoint, each car they sell virtually pure profit.
In theory if they had to add shifts, etc. to assemble more units that would have a slight impact, but in this case they've got a whole facility essentially idle. If this was a carbon tub car with a lot of expensive material components, there would be slightly more marginal cost per car, but still not anywhere approaching MSRP.
Porsche has been able to take the 911 platform and print $$$$$ w/ many iterations....for example: Sales by model for 2017
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The costs for development and the factory are sunk.
There are plenty of costs to build each car (labor and materials). At the current low volumes they are not breaking even. If they lower prices to gain volume, we have no idea where the monthly sales have to be to get into the black. The way the car appears to be perceived, they might not increase volume enough to get anywhere even with lower prices. Bottom line is the program is a financial flunk. Those of us with the cars are happy because they are a blast. The most interesting exercise will be predicting when Honda will pull the plug.
Well...with production of a bit north of 2000 worldwide, if Honda pulled the plug, the NC1 would become an exceedingly rare car, maybe even valuable in the distant (20-25 years) future. That's both good and bad, I suppose?
I definitely like the idea of the car being exceedingly rare. Picture this.........this car will never come close to the number of each of these cars on the road:
Huracan
Aventador
458
488
Nearly any 911
Nearly any Aston Martin
R8
GTR
etc, etc, etc......
I was at Scuderia Southwest in Scottsdale this past Saturday. One of the best Cars and Coffees in the country, with millions of dollars of supercars represented. Out of hundreds of supercars there, mine was one of two 2nd Gen NSXs. Contrast that with about a dozen Huracans, a dozen 570s, 50 911s, several Aventadors, several 488s and 458s, and so on. I drove my car 120 miles to get there, went on a spirited drive afterwards, and then drove another 120 miles back home. Many of those other cars never leave a flatbed truck's drive distance from their dealership. Out of all of the cars I just listed above, the NSX is just about the least expensive and the most reliable. Some internet haters like to diss on the NSX for whatever reason, but I can't think of another car that delivers what the NSX does for me. Time will tell if my decision to be an early adopter was a good one (I have $107k residual due at the end of 2020 if I want to keep this specific car) but I'm thinking that the best modern supercar buy in the world will be in 2020 when these cars start coming off of lease by the hundreds.
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In 30 years, the cost of operating a gas powered car will be much higher because there will be less demand for petrol. In some countries and cities, cars driven by people or gas powered powertrain may be banned other than on a track. This will likely be Honda last gas powered exotic.
On another note, Honda miscalculated the market. Think they can cut cost by putting their upcoming homegrown TT V6 in the engine bay instead of the race engine block and heads built by Cosworth. The NSX can get a high tune variant of their new homegrown V6 engine and share many common parts. It not what power hungry enthusiasts want to hear because the Honda TT V6 may not have as much margin over 500hp but if they truly want to keep that expensive engine that is made in very low volumes, they need to charge the high prices that will result in them only selling 10 units a month.
Eventually Honda will have to make a choice. Pull the plug on the car or bring the price tag down by using core components and scale back output to a more modest level.
I don't really care for the 75 degree v6 as it lacks the refinement of all other Honda V6s and the sound of the engine driving around town sounds like a generator. Sure it sounds better when revved and hard on gas but it falls short of past Honda V6s in acoustics and mechanical refinement. Actually it does sounds like a Ford Taurus under light loads, which is very un Honda like.
On another note, Honda miscalculated the market. Think they can cut cost by putting their upcoming homegrown TT V6 in the engine bay instead of the race engine block and heads built by Cosworth. The NSX can get a high tune variant of their new homegrown V6 engine and share many common parts. It not what power hungry enthusiasts want to hear because the Honda TT V6 may not have as much margin over 500hp but if they truly want to keep that expensive engine that is made in very low volumes, they need to charge the high prices that will result in them only selling 10 units a month.
Eventually Honda will have to make a choice. Pull the plug on the car or bring the price tag down by using core components and scale back output to a more modest level.
I don't really care for the 75 degree v6 as it lacks the refinement of all other Honda V6s and the sound of the engine driving around town sounds like a generator. Sure it sounds better when revved and hard on gas but it falls short of past Honda V6s in acoustics and mechanical refinement. Actually it does sounds like a Ford Taurus under light loads, which is very un Honda like.
I already own one rare car, and I also leased a RLX Sport Hybrid (itself a very uncommon car, and an unexpected sleeper at that!) for a time, so I am definitely not against owning rare cars.
I just hope Honda/Acura next time release a halo car that is better accepted by the buying public. I'm sure it's in the works somewhere, somehow...I hope...
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As it's in the responsability of Honda US I'll expect them to pull the plug much earlier than Honda Japan persisted with the Gen1 for 14 years.
Back in 2015, Honda initiated a 3 stage plan in Europe (F1, NSX, Civic Type R). But the market asked for SUVs, Hybrids and Electro. They've tried to gain people for the race track but very, very little interest, obviously the younger people have different priorities in Europe.
After many years of vaccum we'll finally get a hybrid (new CR-V) next year. Horray!
With a lot of used cars entering the market in 2020 they won't sell much new cars. Low initial sales won't automatically imply a high demand for used cars. The correlation is more like low initial sales -> low demand on the used market.
Same with the Civic Type R here in Europe where we can see a fire sale at the moment of cars sitting on the dealers lot, desperatly trying to sell them (even at a loss). At least they're keeping prices high. If I'm selling my CTR in a few years I'm prepared to take a bit hit. But I don't care as you only live once and the car is as great as the NSX!. But the loss is limited and the complexity of the car too.
Back in 2015, Honda initiated a 3 stage plan in Europe (F1, NSX, Civic Type R). But the market asked for SUVs, Hybrids and Electro. They've tried to gain people for the race track but very, very little interest, obviously the younger people have different priorities in Europe.
After many years of vaccum we'll finally get a hybrid (new CR-V) next year. Horray!
With a lot of used cars entering the market in 2020 they won't sell much new cars. Low initial sales won't automatically imply a high demand for used cars. The correlation is more like low initial sales -> low demand on the used market.
Same with the Civic Type R here in Europe where we can see a fire sale at the moment of cars sitting on the dealers lot, desperatly trying to sell them (even at a loss). At least they're keeping prices high. If I'm selling my CTR in a few years I'm prepared to take a bit hit. But I don't care as you only live once and the car is as great as the NSX!.
But the loss is limited and the complexity of the car too.Similar threads
