Salvage Title NSX for 71k?

[nfaiz]

I was browsing Facebook today, when I came across a salvage title NSX with 64k miles. It's a 95' Targa in Brooklands Green.

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The owner said it was salvage because the motor failed but I have no idea. He said it was replaced with a motor with 50k miles from a 96'. Attached is the receipt for the shop work and a carfax that I bought. Wanted to get a NSX and it doesn't look bad at all what do you guys think?

Carfax Report

 

[fastfwd]

what do you guys think?

lol no

 

[Honcho]

I'd steer clear. Too many stories for that kind of money.

 

[nsxvtecvtec]

you can buy a clean title for that money. just need to wait for the right car.

 

[DRIFTER]

Cars don’t get salvaged because of a blown motor.

 

[nfaiz]

Cars don’t get salvaged because of a blown motor.

That's what I was thinking. He said he could do 66 but probably not worth it at that price either, I'll just wait for a Targa 95+ to come around that fits my budget.

 

[nfaiz]

I was so hopeful. Just found out it was a flood title.

 

[DRIFTER]

Honestly I would take a flood over a wreck as long as it was fresh water. However they are a nightmare to register and insure with a branded title. I wouldn’t touch it. In a total loss situation they are only going to pay you salvage price. Regardless how much money went into fixing it. I would definitely wait for the right car. This October prices should drop, student loans are due and going to break budgets. People will be looking to liquidate assets.

 

[Honcho]

Honestly I would take a flood over a wreck as long as it was fresh water. However they are a nightmare to register and insure with a branded title. I wouldn’t touch it. In a total loss situation they are only going to pay you salvage price. Regardless how much money went into fixing it. I would definitely wait for the right car. This October prices should drop, student loans are due and going to break budgets. People will be looking to liquidate assets.

Agree. You'd need to strip down the entire car and inspect each harness plug for corrosion. Depending on how high the water got, all of the control modules and fuses also would need to be checked. That's a lot of work and not worth it at $66k imho.

 

[nfaiz]

Agree. You'd need to strip down the entire car and inspect each harness plug for corrosion. Depending on how high the water got, all of the control modules and fuses also would need to be checked. That's a lot of work and not worth it at $66k imho.

My FD recently caught fire and insurance paid me quite a lot for it, the seller is offering 55, would it be worth that?

 

[fastfwd]

Still no.

 

[Old Guy]

At some point, NSXs will become old enough that they fall into the classic restoration category. At that point, sitting in a barn for 10 years under a pile of pigeon poop with stale gas in the tank because the owner loas interest versus having flood damage may be less of an issue. The distinction being the titles don't have a provision for dis- interested owner.

The point about inspection of the electrics is valid; but, as an example, if the flood damage occurred 10+ years ago and the electrics are currently performing without issue that probably qualifies as confirmation of a successful repair making the flood damage less of an operational concern. If the current owner has a record that the car was partially disassembled to allow inspection and cleaning that would be a significant factor in a purchase decision.

Some observations
- if you can find an equivalent car (with no salvage title) for the same general price take that car just because it is not burdened with the flood title
- if your plan is to buy and hold the car for a long time, and the car passes inspection and you are getting it for a price that reflects the flood title then maybe its a good deal. The burden of the flood title on the NPV of the future sale of the car may not be significant.
- the current owner initially appears to have been less than forthcoming about the status of the car. As noted engine failures don not result in salvage titles. There might be other issues with the car that the owner has not disclosed.

 

[Honcho]

My FD recently caught fire and insurance paid me quite a lot for it, the seller is offering 55, would it be worth that?

At 45-50k I'd be a player, assuming the frame is straight and there are no electrical gremlins. As Old Guy says, if all the electrics are working, then there might not have been any corrosion. The engine may have been replaced due to flooding. I would have the frame measured at a few control points and inspect the side rails and front/rear rails for evidence of cutting/welding. If it all checks out, then it's a good deal. Brooklands targas are rare.

 

[Old Guy]

Some useful information might be
- was the engine replacement due to flood damage or something else?
- how long ago was the damage / how long has the car been on the road since the repairs? If the flood title was 10 years ago and the car has been operational for the last 9 years I might be feeling pretty good about this car. That engine repair estimate is dated March 2023. If that coincides with the flood damage the car has not been on the road for long so I would feel less comfortable about the car being proven
- does the owner have any supporting documentation for the flood repair work? That document attached to the first post is an estimate, not an invoice for actual work so it is effectively meaningless. An invoice showing the actual repair work carried out is the required document.

I don't follow the market so I don't know what current prices are like. I do know that 'in general' the Ferrari maxim applies - the cheapest NSX up front will not be the lowest cost NSX to own. An NSX with issues can chew through $20k faster than a toker with a bag of Cheetos.

 

[nfaiz]

Thank you guys for all the input. All the electrical components worked when he got it, HQ Engineering only had to replace the main relay. I got the invoice for the engine work and I’m waiting for the invoice for the body work.
The first group of pictures were what it looked like when he got it. The next set is the underbody.

 

[nfaiz]

Some useful information might be
- was the engine replacement due to flood damage or something else?
- how long ago was the damage / how long has the car been on the road since the repairs? If the flood title was 10 years ago and the car has been operational for the last 9 years I might be feeling pretty good about this car. That engine repair estimate is dated March 2023. If that coincides with the flood damage the car has not been on the road for long so I would feel less comfortable about the car being proven
- does the owner have any supporting documentation for the flood repair work? That document attached to the first post is an estimate, not an invoice for actual work so it is effectively meaningless. An invoice showing the actual repair work carried out is the required document.

I don't follow the market so I don't know what current prices are like. I do know that 'in general' the Ferrari maxim applies - the cheapest NSX up front will not be the lowest cost NSX to own. An NSX with issues can chew through $20k faster than a toker with a bag of Cheetos.

The damage was in 2001 so he doesn’t have any of the documentation from the owner then. The engine work I believe was because it was sitting a while.

Here is the car fax.

Carfax Report

 

[nfaiz]

At some point, NSXs will become old enough that they fall into the classic restoration category. At that point, sitting in a barn for 10 years under a pile of pigeon poop with stale gas in the tank because the owner loas interest versus having flood damage may be less of an issue. The distinction being the titles don't have a provision for dis- interested owner.

The point about inspection of the electrics is valid; but, as an example, if the flood damage occurred 10+ years ago and the electrics are currently performing without issue that probably qualifies as confirmation of a successful repair making the flood damage less of an operational concern. If the current owner has a record that the car was partially disassembled to allow inspection and cleaning that would be a significant factor in a purchase decision.

Some observations
- if you can find an equivalent car (with no salvage title) for the same general price take that car just because it is not burdened with the flood title
- if your plan is to buy and hold the car for a long time, and the car passes inspection and you are getting it for a price that reflects the flood title then maybe its a good deal. The burden of the flood title on the NPV of the future sale of the car may not be significant.
- the current owner initially appears to have been less than forthcoming about the status of the car. As noted engine failures don not result in salvage titles. There might be other issues with the car that the owner has not disclosed.

I’ve been looking for a brooklands car for a while and haven’t been able to find one nearly in the same range. I also plan on keeping this car for a while and using it for my commute for a day or two every week. I don’t care for the resell value.

 

[Old Guy]

The Carfax paper trail is a little confusing. If it has been 12 years since the flood damage then you can probably assume that residual flood damage is a lower risk issue. I can't comment on the quality of the engine related work; but, the invoice looks complete. Have you thought of calling HQ Engineering to see if they are prepared to say anything about the car?

Have you driven it or have you arranged for a PPI if the car is not local to you? Depending on how the inspection / PPI turns out, this might be a low cost entry into NSX ownership. The fact that you plan to buy and hold makes the former salvage title less of an issue.

Good luck with this!

 

[Honcho]

I’ve been looking for a brooklands car for a while and haven’t been able to find one nearly in the same range. I also plan on keeping this car for a while and using it for my commute for a day or two every week. I don’t care for the resell value.

Seems reasonable. HQ is a good shop.

 

[fastfwd]

I also plan on keeping this car for a while and using it for my commute for a day or two every week.

So you'll need insurance. Have you confirmed that your insurance provider will cover a salvage-title car?

I don’t care for the resell value.

That's good, because the car will be hard to sell -- not least because potential buyers will all be getting the same advice from their friends that you're getting now.

Some questions:

Do I understand correctly that the seller initially hid the car's flood history from you? If he lied to you then, why do you believe anything he's telling you now?

Also, @Honcho said he might be a buyer at $45-50K, but he's not like most people -- he once spent years restoring/building an NSX in his garage, so his pricing model balances the risk of unexpected hidden damage against his expertise and free labor. If you're unwilling or unable to perform major repairs yourself, your price should be lower than his.

 

[nfaiz]

So you'll need insurance. Have you confirmed that your insurance provider will cover a salvage-title car?



That's good, because the car will be hard to sell -- not least because potential buyers will all be getting the same advice from their friends that you're getting now.

Some questions:

Do I understand correctly that the seller initially hid the car's flood history from you? If he lied to you then, why do you believe anything he's telling you now?

Also, @Honcho said he might be a buyer at $45-50K, but he's not like most people -- he once spent years restoring/building an NSX in his garage, so his pricing model balances the risk of unexpected hidden damage against his expertise and free labor. If you're unwilling or unable to perform major repairs yourself, your price should be lower than his.

For the salvage title, he didn’t know what kind it was when he bought it. Images of conversation attached.

I’m going to call my insurance company tomorrow morning to see.

I am willing to do repairs myself though I do not have the expertise that Honcho has.

 

[Honcho]

According to the valuation tool, the average 95 Targa value right now is about $90k. The tool also indicates that a salvage title reduces the value on average by about 27%. So, in this case, this car is worth about $65k in today's NSX market as is. So, at $55k, you're already $10k below the value.

The car looks fairly straight and has had its major service performed by a reputable shop. Also, it appears to be running ok 12 years after the flood damage. Thus, the question you have to ask is do you think you can do the rest of the stuff this car needs for $10,000? To @fastfwd's point, I could. But, taking off my "Honcho hat" for a minute, it's probably closer to $15k.

The car needs those hideous side skirts and fender flares removed and OEM put back. It needs OEM 95 wheels and a deep paint correction/detail (with possible paint work on the areas where the skirts/flares were). That's about $5k right there.

Then, you need to think about all the "old NSX" stuff that likely will come up: A/C, window regulators, tail light leaks, capacitor leaks, targa seals, brake system, driveshafts, etc. These are old cars now and this stuff is wearing out. It's gonna be close to $10k if you DIY.

For a car you want to daily drive, you're going to have to do the above items. If you have your heart set on Brooklands and plan on keeping it for a long time, it might make sense because you can spread the costs over time. However, if you just want the NSX experience for a couple years and then will move on to something else, this is not the car for you unless you can get the seller down below $50k.

JMO

 

[nfaiz]

According to the valuation tool, the average 95 Targa value right now is about $90k. The tool also indicates that a salvage title reduces the value on average by about 27%. So, in this case, this car is worth about $65k in today's NSX market as is. So, at $55k, you're already $10k below the value.

The car looks fairly straight and has had its major service performed by a reputable shop. Also, it appears to be running ok 12 years after the flood damage. Thus, the question you have to ask is do you think you can do the rest of the stuff this car needs for $10,000? To @fastfwd's point, I could. But, taking off my "Honcho hat" for a minute, it's probably closer to $15k.

The car needs those hideous side skirts and fender flares removed and OEM put back. It needs OEM 95 wheels and a deep paint correction/detail (with possible paint work on the areas where the skirts/flares were). That's about $5k right there.

Then, you need to think about all the "old NSX" stuff that likely will come up: A/C, window regulators, tail light leaks, capacitor leaks, targa seals, brake system, driveshafts, etc. These are old cars now and this stuff is wearing out. It's gonna be close to $10k if you DIY.

For a car you want to daily drive, you're going to have to do the above items. If you have your heart set on Brooklands and plan on keeping it for a long time, it might make sense because you can spread the costs over time. However, if you just want the NSX experience for a couple years and then will move on to something else, this is not the car for you unless you can get the seller down below $50k.

JMO

Paint looks really good, didn’t mean to confuse you the pictures with the dust and body kit were from before he restored it.
“
Car was a barn find that has been sitting for over 12 years.

The cars motor was unfortunately hurt along with alot of parts being damaged.

We put a 96 Used Engine with 49k Miles @ 63,805 mile on the chassis) decided to go the extra step and change all timing components, water pump, vacuum lines, spark plugs, all new fresh fluids, new axles, new clutch, and few more misc parts. I have receipts for everything done to it.

Also gave the car a Restoration Correction which means they brought the complete car back to life! From engine bay, frunk, interior and exterior. Car is back again to its glory days!

Recently sent out the AC Module to replace faulty relay with upgraded relay then sent car to receive full ac seals along with having the full system recharged, so blows cold and hot.

Intake manifold gaskets were replace with OEM ( Since they weren't OEM) along with sending injectors to get serviced and rebuilt.

Car also had a charge speed body kit, which was replaced with OEM panels. Car was sent to Horns Collision Center where it was removed, oem parts were repaired, parts were ordered (lights, clips and bracket), painted and installed.

So the car now is bone stock with the exception of the aftermarket OZ racing wheels!“

 

[Honcho]

Wow- is that summary from HQ?

In any event, I say go for it at $55k.