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1:59 at Buttonwillow, video

Joined
19 January 2011
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Made it out to BW on Saturday the 18th with Speed District. Great event, only 25 cars so there was plenty of open track in each session, mostly m3's and Porsche's but there was a McLaren MP4-12C running around too.

I spent time since the last trackday (ordeal) to fix most of the small issues I had. First on the list was the pissing coolant everywhere problem. Apparently the OEM hose clamps didn't seal tight enough over the silicon because of a difference in wall thickness. It was a dumb mistake and it pretty much ruined the day just figuring out where the hell the water was coming from.
To fix this I ended up getting some industrial grade automotive T-bolt clamps and swapped every single connection. much more sturdy now. total PITA getting the correct size clamps though.


Another problem I had was I was losing cooling efficiency on the oil cooler because the ducting had started to sag around the exchanger after it had been heat cycled a couple times. This had caused a 1/4 to 1/2 inch gap to open on the top and bottom and ruin any efficiency the ram ducting had. I built a sealing frame on the top and bottom to keep this from happening.


Now the temps are back down, i Peaked at 246F after running a 30min session. I can live with that.


Gundan323 also was able to source me a rear Zanardi sway bar to replace the MASSIVE Dali bar and billet clamps I had on there before,


This made all the difference in the world on entry speed, The car is %110 improved and its going to take me some time to adapt to not driving such a loose and twitchy car. Even in the footage you can see how much more relaxed I am over the older set up, granted, not as much fun to watch but its the key ingredient for consistent speed.


At the last event I was also worried i was running too lean with the outta-the-box tune that came with the RDX injector kit. I PM'ed Brian from Prospeed and he was extremely accommodating in finding a time when both our schedules worked to set up dyno time at Bisimoto. After about an hour Brian was satisfied that all the numbers looked solid and that I'd have piece of mind that im not going to melt my pistons on track running too lean. Final counts were 268hp and 205TQ. Heres a quick video of the session i threw together since I always get sounds clip requests for the Sorcery exhaust: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkYCdVTqVSc



The one bummer is my CEL woes for code 22 'front bank spool valve' error. I have now got this CEL intermittently for over a year and cannot for the life of me figure out what the hell is causing it. It doesn't occur when driving the car on the street and didn't happen dyno either. Only seems to happen on track. Ive removed the valve, checked the screens, fine. Removed the valve and bench tested it, fine. Removed the valve replaced the switches electric grease everything. Finally after the last event i bought a brand new OEM replacement for the entire thing, body and sensors, everything. Confident I was finally triumphant I got back on the track and about halfway through the second lap of each session as I start to push the CEL clicks on and the car goes into 'limp' which kills revs past 6400 and shuts off vtec. I was annoyed to see this pop up again since it majorly limits the capability of the car but I just drove around it this time by granny shifting and staying outta vtec. I really have to figure out wtf is going on, ive got one last thing to try and hopefully it will do the trick.

I drove to, on, and from the track on some seeerously raggid tires. they're flat spotted in at least 3 places and are over a year and a half old. I'd ordered replacements but ran out of time and just went with what I had. I realized after the day that one flatspot on the front left had gone straight down to the cords (!!!) and I was still bombing through the riverside sweeper.

YIKES!


Anyways Heres the Video, Theres two laps one is a 2:00 flat (which I was able to do back to back all day) the following one is the 59. The track was really dusty and the regulars were all off pace, im happy now but with a fresh set of rubber and working vtec i think I have a couple more seconds in it at least. For some reason the 2 min mark is a HUGE barrier at BW Ive know people to hover at 2:00:05 for a year no matter what they try.


<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/sASIjuVASuQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="720" width="1280"></iframe>
 
Great day at the track other than the Vtec issue,

FYI, the spool valves are the same bank to bank, so when you have an issue with one move it to the other bank and see if the code follows the valve or stays with the bank. This will tell you if the issue is in the valve or with oil pressure.

Are you logging oil pressure with an external sensor? If so is it pressure at your cooler, near the OEM location or at the head?

You can put a "T" in at the spool value sensor and log what is happening after the valve this will tell you what is really happening with oil pressure in the valve. There is an oil pressure test port in the head near the spool valve, put a sensor or gauge there and check for real head pressure. I know you have the oil cooler but maybe you still have a thinning condition due to heat. What type of oil are you running?

Dave
 
I hope you can run some hot laps next time out without a cel...i hate it when that happens....I just don't feel like pushing hard.You deserve it with all the work you have put into the car.
 
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Great run! I feel am so slow and I have VTEC! haha! What oil cooler are you running? what size AN fittings? Also do you think the cooler would be as efficient in the right hand engine bay vent (by the alternator cooler fan)?
 
Nice video and congrats on a sub-2 minutes with 1.6k rpm to go! I'm glad the bar worked out. I wish I could have made it.
 
Great run! I feel am so slow and I have VTEC! haha! What oil cooler are you running? what size AN fittings? Also do you think the cooler would be as efficient in the right hand engine bay vent (by the alternator cooler fan)?


I have a Mocal 19 row with -an10 fittings and full flow through angles. The placement is such since I'm also running a accusump from the trunk and this was the most direct and cleanest plumbing I could come up with that included all the sensors and check valves. When I was designing the route I couldn't settle on a good way to isolate the exchanger itself from chassis vibration and have it securely mounted behind the outlet. I know RYU and a coupla other have theres mounted there with great result, I just went another route, so to speak.

As you can see though I am drawing air from there with a sealed 3" ducting that runs up and over the fender well to the exchanger.

Great day at the track other than the Vtec issue,

FYI, the spool valves are the same bank to bank, so when you have an issue with one move it to the other bank and see if the code follows the valve or stays with the bank. This will tell you if the issue is in the valve or with oil pressure.

Are you logging oil pressure with an external sensor? If so is it pressure at your cooler, near the OEM location or at the head?

You can put a "T" in at the spool value sensor and log what is happening after the valve this will tell you what is really happening with oil pressure in the valve. There is an oil pressure test port in the head near the spool valve, put a sensor or gauge there and check for real head pressure. I know you have the oil cooler but maybe you still have a thinning condition due to heat. What type of oil are you running?

Dave


That was the initial plan but since its only happening on track i figured it was worth it to just test, retest, then spring for a new part and keep the old one around as a back up.
I do have an external oil presser sensor but it reads just after the 't' from my accusump on the oil return line from the exchanger. I have the fitting to read the oil pressure off the head but I didnt go that route since I figured reading it just post exchanger and sump was a better option. I may just throw a gauge in there just too see whats going on like you suggested. Oil pressures look good when on track and idling and putting around. Peak on track was 89psi in the line coming from the exchanger the 10-w30 Mobil1. I have no idea what the head is seeing as far as pressure but temps I can read and where they're at they shouldn't be thinning the oil (especially since they happen on the first lap or so before the heat load builds)

Do you think that I could have a blockage in an oil passage going up to the front bank? can valve timing result in a CEL code 22? I remember reading on the DAL website that he recommended that you tap and thread both the valve covers and run a line from one to the other to equilize the pressure. He said on NA1 the oil would pool in the valve train and not drain fast enough, i was imagining that i could possibly be almost hydrolocking the head or getting back pressure in the spool valve and throwing the code?
 
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It is my understanding from review of the service manual is that the code 22 & 52 are from low oil pressure while in vtec. How hard is it to bypass the oil cooler and lines that feed it? If you return the oil system to factory specs and the problem goes away then you have an idea where to start looking.

Remember you can have pressure without flow. The VTEC system relies on pressure to slide the pins and lock the VTEC rockers and flow to keep them engaged. VTEC requires a fairly large volume of oil as the entire system is sort of a controlled leak while in VTEC. I have seen on some cars that we have replaced the LMAs that an o-ring on an oil restrictor that feeds the rocker shafts oil can get hard over time and cause a large oil leak once VTEC is engaged. This is a long shot and a last resort as it is very difficult to get to these o-rings (requires the cams to be removed as well as the rocker shafts).

I would rule out electrical and ECU, but since the issue seems to happen during sustained VTEC and not on short VTEC intervals I think you have an oil flow issue.

Dave

- - - Updated - - -

Do you think that I could have a blockage in an oil passage going up to the front bank? can valve timing result in a CEL code 22? I remember reading on the DAL website that he recommended that you tap and thread both the valve covers and run a line from one to the other to equilize the pressure. He said on NA1 the oil would pool in the valve train and not drain fast enough, i was imagining that i could possibly be almost hydrolocking the head or getting back pressure in the spool valve and throwing the code?

DAL was concerned with oil pooling in the heads and not returning to the pan through the oil return paths in the block due to crank case pressures. The idea was to allow air to move through the block and free up the oil passages to return oil to the pan. The concern was with all the oil in the heads the sump would run dry and cause the oil pump to draw air and cause cavitation and oil starvation, then catastrophic failure.

This can be an issue but does not sound like the problem you are having.

Dave
 
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Thank you for an extremely useful reply. I've been having this issue on and of for over a year now, pre SOS oil cooler and pre new oil system. It is easy enough to go back to stock to check things though. If it were a system wide oil pressure problem wouldn't I get the a code 52 in addition to a code 22? (i have only ever gotten it for the front bank)

The o-ring at face value does fit the bill for the problem, its confined to the front bank and sounds like it'll only trigger under sustained load as it bleeds the pressure down. I think the next step is to verify pressures with a gauge and confirm that its just the front bank as the CEL is telling me. I guess another long shot to consider would be I have some left over debris from an oil gear that exploded on track thats restricting oil flow in bank 1 thats even more of a PITA since the head will have to come off to scope it.
 
Yeah the bar is really the key, very good call on that. The car feels as it should extremely neutral and can go much much deeper into corners than before, I dont think i even found the limit yet. From here adjusting toe, rake and pressures should be actually noticeable where before it was ALWAYS loose.

Tires are about 3 year old Nt01's that have been baking in my attic :] . I took them off originally becasue they were totally flat spotted, the set id replaced them with at this point was even worse, so I swapped back. I have another set of Nt01 on order but am really curious to try the Hankook TD's, do you have any experience with them on an NSX?

The second to last session of the day an m3 blew its motor on riverside and leaked oil/coolant on the racing line right before phil hill. There was no flag yet and i charged in and looped it just before the crest. {Unfortunately i didn't have anymore battery in the GoPro so I didn't get it on film} from what i remember the back came around when i turned in, so by the time I got to the top of the hill I was going sideways at about 80 mph over the crest. corner worker and people that were watching said I caught air when the front of the car bounced off the curbing at the apex and I landed some 25 feet down the other side in the dirt and skid too a stop. It was a little scary but the car fired right up and I drove it back to the pits to check it out. I apparently smacked the come at the apex with enough speed to glance off my bumper pretty good and when i landed a wall of silt came blasting into the car and was PACKED into the side splitters hard enough to have to be scraped out with a screwdriver. I spent hours cleaning little crunchy peices of dirt from the door hinges and steering column. man I wish I had that on video,




 
Yeah, I had went back and fourth when designing it, slapped them on in the end since having them it couldn't really hurt things.
 
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Congrats!

Sorry to hear about the front head VTEC issue. It sounds like an intermittent short when the engine bay heats up, or a problem with the ECU.

As you now, VTEC engages at 5800 RPM. That's why the engineers designed the OEM oil pump to begin bypassing flow at a little over 6000 RPM (the oil pump is rated at 16 GPM at 6000 RPM in the SM since it is a positive displacement pump). So, you begin bypassing oil at around 16 GPM and a corresponding 80ish psi oil pressure as measured in the heads. Therefore, even with a little leakage due to seal degradation, the OEM oil pump should have enough extra capacity to compensate... assuming the engine and primarily the heads haven't been taken apart.

Now, if the VTEC issue occurred after your oil pump failure, it could also be due to a partially-clogged passageway like you mentioned. But I would trace the wiring harness for the front oil pressure switch first. An ECU swap would be another easy check, but your new RDX injector tune complicates that. You'd have to swap back in your old injectors temporarily.


Have you tried completely removing your rear sway? I ditched mine years ago since it opened up a lot of exhaust/aero configurations. It complements my other mods and driving style.

Dave
 
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Very nice Will! The car looked planted with a ton of grip. It's going to be really good with some fresh tires. I'm getting the Zanardi bar put on this Friday. Trying to get back out on track soon.
 
Congrats!

Sorry to hear about the front head VTEC issue. It sounds like an intermittent short when the engine bay heats up, or a problem with the ECU.

As you now, VTEC engages at 5800 RPM. That's why the engineers designed the OEM oil pump to begin bypassing flow at a little over 6000 RPM (the oil pump is rated at 16 GPM at 6000 RPM in the SM since it is a positive displacement pump). So, you begin bypassing oil at around 16 GPM and a corresponding 80ish psi oil pressure as measured in the heads. Therefore, even with a little leakage due to seal degradation, the OEM oil pump should have enough extra capacity to compensate... assuming the engine and primarily the heads haven't been taken apart.

Now, if the VTEC issue occurred after your oil pump failure, it could also be due to a partially-clogged passageway like you mentioned. But I would trace the wiring harness for the front oil pressure switch first. An ECU swap would be another easy check, but your new RDX injector tune complicates that. You'd have to swap back in your old injectors temporarily.


Have you tried completely removing your rear sway? I ditched mine years ago since it opened up a lot of exhaust/aero configurations. It complements my other mods and driving style.

Dave

Ive never driven without the swaybar, i may try and unhook it next time out and see how it feels. Good ideas as far as the CEL, sounds like im going to have to trace the wiring back from the valve in addition to reading the pressures from the head.

Thanks Ryneen! got new tires on the way to me now. I should be all good to go for the next outing. BRING YOUR CAMERA! :]
 
Impressive time for 6,500rpm! -just watched the video and looks good. Can't wait to see what you do with full rpm and new tires.

Also, use aluminum foil-tape and/or silicone to seal off your duct to heat exchanger face.

Come out to the RTA event in Feb!!!
 
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