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1994 NSX Shaking at High Speed

Joined
30 October 2016
Messages
1,122
Location
Austin, TX
I posted this on Facebook in the owners group but decided it might be better to post here since FB is a dumpster fire and the post will be virtually gone within days.

Recently I discovered that my 1994 starts to vibrate/shake around 90-100mph. The fastest I've ever driven the car was 130mph shortly after purchasing the car in 2016, and I recall it being perfectly stable.

I don't feel it at all in the steering wheel, just in the chassis itself, so through my foot on the dead pedal and in the seat of my pants.

The car has 105k miles, stock springs, and Bilstein shocks on the lower perch. Bilstein shocks were installed in July 2017 and have about 10,000 miles on them. Front tires were replaced around the same time, rear tires have 15,000 miles on them and were replaced late 2016. I have 5mm spacers on the rear wheels because the spring perches were very close to the tires and rubbing sometimes, I will try removing these and see if it makes a difference.

I had some work done on the car recently, the shop ended up replacing the rear driver side knuckle and upper control arm with new OEM parts. (The original parts weren't damaged or bent, but they broke the lower ball joint trying to separate it, then broke the upper ball joint trying to get the knuckle out, and they refused to wait for aftermarket options in order to get the car done faster...that was a nasty hit to my wallet and a very good lesson about why I should do everything myself.)

Also, 8 months to a year ago, I hit an invisible dip in the road at night causing the passenger side front tow point to hit the ground. I didn't think the hit was that hard, I was only going 25-30mph and the tow point isn't bent or damaged at all beyond some scrape marks on the bottom, but could this tweak the chassis enough to cause such an issue? None of the panel gaps seem off and the car didn't drive any differently afterwards.

What should I look for? I'm planning on having the tires balanced and alignment checked out, but beyond that is there anything I should check? I'm wondering if perhaps differences in the response of the new and old bushings in the rear could cause it? I had them give me the original arms back so I'm going to send them off and have the ball joints replaced and keep the new arms in my spare parts bin.

Replies to the FB post:

I had something similar. Brought it to wheel alignment shop and he told me some of the suspension bushings broke due to age. I replace all of them using energy suspension. No more problem.

The bushings on the old control arms seemed just fine, very stiff and no cracking or other visible signs of wear or damage at all, but I'll jack the car up and check the others too.

Easiest thing to check would be a road-force balance. It checks for proper balance, and for differences it tore stiffness. Like if a belt or sidewall damage is the cause of high speed vibration.

I will do this as a starting point.

Where/how are you feeling the shake the most? Steering wheel shimmying? or do you feel more in the seat of your pants, but not as much through the wheel?

I had something similar that ended up being resolved somewhere between replacing the front wheel bearings and front ball joints (via Steve Ghent).

Not in the steering wheel at all oddly enough. Just in the chassis itself so more in the seat of my pants.

Any other input? If it doesn't end up being anything apparent I'll probably have a shop take measurements on the chassis to see if anything is tweaked.
 
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I would start with tire balance as you plan. No shake on the wheel would point more to the rear tires being the problem. An alignment issue may also cause uneven tire wear, leading to a vibration.
 
Has the car been in storage for a while? You may have flat-spotted the tires due to lack of use......

Just a thought, I have had this happen to mine a few times. Typically I will just drive it, and after some mileage they round out again.

Just a thought....

HTH,
LarryB
 
If aftermarket wheels, are all the hub centering rings in place? If one is missing, it could cause this at very high speed. It did on my car.
 
Does the steering wheel move left/right or do you feel vibration transfer only? I would check: wheel balance, tie rods, ball joints.
 
If you don't feel it in the steering wheel it comes from the rear. The steering wheel in the NSX transfers much more information like tire imbalance or any kind of fishy stuff than most other cars.
 
Yup, no shaking in the steering wheel at all.

I'm currently waiting on my old control arm/knuckle back from Carbon6Composites, so once I swap those in I'm going to remove the 5mm spacers and have all 4 wheels balanced and aligned then go from there. I've had the car up in the air and felt no play or seen any damage at any of the wheels, all the bushings look good with no visible damage.
 
Yup, nothing felt in the steering wheel at all beyond just normal road feedback.

I'm currently waiting on my old control arm/knuckle back from Carbon6Composites, so once I swap those in I'm going to remove the 5mm spacers and have all 4 wheels balanced and aligned then go from there. I've had the car up in the air and felt no play or seen any damage at any of the wheels, all the bushings look good with no visible damage.
 
Spacers can induce this if the wheels are not able to be mounted centered. A 5 mm spacer in the rear is just enough for an (OEM!) wheel to have around 1-2 mm on the hub to be able to center it.

I'd try the following:
- Car up in the air
- Mount the wheels without spacers
- Let the engine run with 1st gear
- Watch for roundness of tire AND rim. Hint: the rim should be very, very round while the tire can be a little bit off depending on how long the car has been sitting.

- Do the same the procedure WITH the spacers.
- Compare.

Also, check the rear axles while the car is running in 1st. This can be the other main source.
 
Something to consider. The car was presumably good to 130 mph some time in 2016. The problem emerged sometime after that, so it could have occurred as early as late 2016 when you replaced the rear tires. When the rear tires were installed, were they road force balanced? If not, that might be a lower cost option to pursue first. Conventional spin balancing can deal with weight differences in the horizontal and radial axis of the rim / tire. It cannot measure or address problems with out of round conditions in the rim and / or tire or problems with variation in the tire wall stiffness (or some damage to the tire carcass). A road force balance can flag those issues.

Good tires come with dots on them indicating the high / stiff point in the sidewall which is to be matched up with a dot on the rim indicating the low spot in the rim eccentricity. A lot of rims, especially older ones don't have or have lost that eccentricity mark or the installer doesn't know about that stuff so the tire just gets mounted wherever. If a road force balance flags an eccentricity issue, you may be able to fix it by repositioning the tire, or maybe not. If you can't eliminate the problem, you can try to minimize it and at that point decide whether you can live with it or need to try a different tire. Also, be cautious about the spacers. A road force balance is done without the spacers. Put the rim back on the car with spacers and you may re introduce an eccentricity.

In a particular brand and model of tire, not all tires are the same. The best ones in terms of balance go to the OEMs if the tire is an OEM fitment. The lesser tires may end up at tire discounters. Just something to be aware of that the same tire may not be the 'same' depending on where you buy it.

If the road force balance doesn't flag an issue, then time to move on to other potential causes.
 
1994 nsx shaking at high speed

Since your steering wheel is not shaking, I'm also in the rear wheel/tire/hub camp.

I had a problem like yours, that was more noticeable as speed increased. A brake caliper was hanging up. Easy to check and repair
 
I finally had some time to work on the car last night, lately I've been caught up in the motor replacement in my 540i and all the associated headaches, it really makes me appreciate Japanese cars more. But anyways, started by jacking up the rear, removing the spacers, and inspecting each wheel and suspension, fairly typical stuff. Didn't find anything obvious with the suspension, so I dropped the car and went to check the tire pressure. Low 20s in the rear when it should be 40psi, so I filled them up to 33psi in the front and 40psi in the rear.

At this point I took the car out and pushed up to 135mph and no vibration, it was either the tire pressure or the spacers, but I'm willing to bet it was tire pressure because I didn't have issue with the spacers in the past.

Anyways, thanks for all the input, lots of good information shared here that will hopefully help someone who has a real problem and not just tire pressure.
 
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Yeah...I deserve any flak I get for that rather irresponsible decision, it was the wee hours of the morning on a stretch of empty highway I know well so I gave in to the temptation to open it up. Definitely not a regular thing.

I can assure you I am not giving you flak. Just a little good natured ribbing. Not many on here that hasn't done something similar when presented with the right opportunity. My drivers side window needs adjustment, as I have an annoying air leak at similar speeds!
 
What? :eek: Did you say tire pressure?! That's really embarrassing...:D Shame on you! :D
 
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Goes back to my point of wheel hub centering rings. If not perfect, you'll feel every bit above 100 mph. I'm betting its the spacers....
 
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