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$200+ oil... the coming energy wars


Interesting, but with these debates, I see people bending the truth and spreading agenda.

In this article, they say we need to conserve and they talk about using better insulation, turning off lights, etc. That has NOTHING to do with oil. Electricity is made from either coal or nuclear. Both of which we have NO SHORTAGE of, have nothing to do with oil and are cheap.

They mention hybrids, but what a dumb solution hybrid cars are. They remind me of e85 gas. They going to destroy the environment because they're disposable cars(due to their $5,000+ 100,000 mile maintenance cost). The resale value of them will be $0, so over 5 years, it will most likely be cheaper to drive a H2 hummer than a hybrid.

They want a solution? The first step is to understand the problem, which is seems we don't. No one can give a definitive answer as to why the prices are going up. Lots of theories, but no one seems to be able to say x causes y. That has to be step 1.
 
In this article, they say we need to conserve and they talk about using better insulation, turning off lights, etc. That has NOTHING to do with oil. Electricity is made from either coal or nuclear. Both of which we have NO SHORTAGE of, have nothing to do with oil and are cheap.

Not true. About 25% of our electricity production comes from gas and petroleum which has everything to do with oil/gas drilling. There is strong opposition to building more coal plants so I would expect more nuclear, renewable energy and gas fired plants to be built in the future.
 
They mention hybrids, but what a dumb solution hybrid cars are. They remind me of e85 gas. They going to destroy the environment because they're disposable cars(due to their $5,000+ 100,000 mile maintenance cost). The resale value of them will be $0, so over 5 years, it will most likely be cheaper to drive a H2 hummer than a hybrid.

$5000/100,000 miles is 5 cents a mile. I know you're exagerating about the hummer, since it costs 33 cents/mile just in gasoline, but tally up all the costs of owning your cars and you'll find the cost of new batteries is pretty insignificant. Replacing the factory tires on my used '02 sedan cost me $1200 and will last about 20,000 miles...6 cents per mile just for tires. They're working to bring battery costs down.
 
Jond you know I used to work with this real old school guy who kept saying home theaters are a fad and will go away. LOL... reading your reply on hybrids kind of reminds me of that. Hybrids do not need a $5000 battery change at 100K (if that is what you meant). Its just not true. Toyota is a very very smart company and that is why they are as big as they are. They have lots of smart engineers and they are going full forward with Hybrid technology. So is GM, so is Honda. It is not perfect, yes it has its flaws but it beats the hell out of whatever else we have now.
 
Not true. About 25% of our electricity production comes from gas and petroleum which has everything to do with oil/gas drilling. There is strong opposition to building more coal plants so I would expect more nuclear, renewable energy and gas fired plants to be built in the future.

Not true, sort of. About 25% of U.S. electricity is natural gas fired (yes) but less than 5% is oil-fired, and oil prices are what the article is referring to. Those oil-burning power plants may only run a few times a year on the coldest and hottest days, too.

Re: the article -- what's new? High oil prices impact trade, other commodities, most goods, and shift global wealth. No kidding. The silly thing about the article is that it's written in such an alarmist "$200 oil is definitely going to happen soon" way, which is nonsense. BTW, Goldman Sachs has *massive* investments in oil (and power) industry physical storage locations for the sole purpose of being able to monitor the physical market while trading in the futures market. Pretty smart, eh? Kinda like Enron. :wink: Goldman Sachs forecasts $200/oil. Yeah...that's objective. haha
 
I worked for toyota and lexus while attending auto school......

I know for a fact that the batteries IF replaced will cost close to $5000, and you ever wonder what happens if you get in an accident with any of the hybrids?? or if you happen to have a cell or two go bad...???:confused:

E85 and hybrids are like band-aids over a broken femur.

The irony, is to make the cars lighter they use more plastics, and where does plastic really come from??
 
The irony, is to make the cars lighter they use more plastics, and where does plastic really come from??

Strip mining in the Amazon basin?

Would you rather have $4 gas or no gas at all? Just pay at the pump, and y'all just get over it...

Why does no one complain about the price of gold going up? My B.A. Baracus chains cost me 4 times as much today as they did in 1982. And of course we all know that the demand for gold has gone way up.:tongue:
 
Hybrids do not need a $5000 battery change at 100K (if that is what you meant).

No, what I'm saying is the batteries, from my understanding, need to be replaced at 100,000 miles and cost $3,000. You also have the timing belt, water pump, etc because it still has a gas engine which will bring the cost on up close to $5,000 for a car that's not even worth $5,000. Hence the introduction of the throw away car...

You say to trust them because they're smart, and I say what about E85 gas?


Would you rather have $4 gas or no gas at all? Just pay at the pump, and y'all just get over it...

I'm not sure it's that simple. The cost of oil effects everything from the cost of my shirt, to the cost of food in other countries. There are people who wont be able to eat if oil prices keep going up this quick.


I know for a fact that the batteries IF replaced will cost close to $5000, and you ever wonder what happens if you get in an accident with any of the hybrids?? or if you happen to have a cell or two go bad...???:confused:

E85 and hybrids are like band-aids over a broken femur.

I'm really surprised environmentalist are okay with hybrids. You would think they would be up in arms. They're going to really do some damage I think. Great, the air is cleaner, but now we cant drink the water because there's too much lead in it....



$5000/100,000 miles is 5 cents a mile. I know you're exagerating about the hummer, since it costs 33 cents/mile just in gasoline, but tally up all the costs of owning your cars and you'll find the cost of new batteries is pretty insignificant. Replacing the factory tires on my used '02 sedan cost me $1200 and will last about 20,000 miles...6 cents per mile just for tires. They're working to bring battery costs down.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but you see my point.
Think about the used car market. A used 100,000 mile civic right now goes for around $6,000 I'm guessing. If the up front cost to keep it running is $5,000(water pump, timing belt, and $3,000 batteries) then the used car market will dry up, and these cars will be crushed and go into the landfills about 5 years early.

As far as the price of batteries coming down, it could go either way. They could actually go up in price because of demand.
 
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I worked for toyota and lexus while attending auto school......

I know for a fact that the batteries IF replaced will cost close to $5000, and you ever wonder what happens if you get in an accident with any of the hybrids?? or if you happen to have a cell or two go bad...???:confused:

E85 and hybrids are like band-aids over a broken femur.

The irony, is to make the cars lighter they use more plastics, and where does plastic really come from??

Why do Europeans (who pay so much more for gasoline) NOT use Ethanol, hybrid, etc...? For personal/private transportation they use MUCH smaller displacements, diesel, and turbo...
 
$5000/100,000 miles is 5 cents a mile. I know you're exagerating about the hummer, since it costs 33 cents/mile just in gasoline, but tally up all the costs of owning your cars and you'll find the cost of new batteries is pretty insignificant. Replacing the factory tires on my used '02 sedan cost me $1200 and will last about 20,000 miles...6 cents per mile just for tires. They're working to bring battery costs down.

Spending $5k on a major service is typically outside the realm of the poor and the poor middle class if they have purchased a hybrid, are not putting those savings into investments. The savings get spent on vices or luxuries and hybrids themselves do not address the real problem.

How much personal energy is spent working in order to commute? I know a couple spending $1k/mo on gasoline and are looking to get rid of the SUVs for something more practical. However, when the poor are required to pay through the nose and go to work to able to afford to go besides the roof over the head and food, it means less going into the economy. The word for this is recession.

I live 3.5 miles from the office in a nice area and invest in Chevron-Texaco and Exxon-Mobil. It's political suicide to suggest gasoline becomes regulated and auto makers are forced to begin using hybrid technology for their vehicles with profits heavily subsidized by the government so auto makers don't collapse. It can be done, but to get involved with prices at the pump means a lot more than affecting the price per barrel which has much less affect on pump prices than one would believe.

Just my 2 pence.
 
No, what I'm saying is the batteries, from my understanding, need to be replaced at 100,000 miles and cost $3,000. You also have the timing belt, water pump, etc because it still has a gas engine which will bring the cost on up close to $5,000 for a car that's not even worth $5,000. Hence the introduction of the throw away car...

If we take the Prius for example, there are MANY MANY going over not only 100 but I know of some over 200K miles still running on the same batteries. I don't think anyone knows how long they will go, but I have not heard of any needing replacement yet. It also holds its value incredibly well, look at used Prius prices. Its far from being a "throw away" car.

The batteries are recyclable. Toyota has a buyback program. I am amazed at how a company can come out with what is essentialy a very good product, for the most part very environmental, and receive such negativity based on lack of information. I am not saying your example of a used civic is bad, small displacement is bad, turbos are bad, diesels are bad. All these things have their place but electric hybrids come from very good engineering work.
 
Strip mining in the Amazon basin?

Would you rather have $4 gas or no gas at all? Just pay at the pump, and y'all just get over it...

Why does no one complain about the price of gold going up? My B.A. Baracus chains cost me 4 times as much today as they did in 1982. And of course we all know that the demand for gold has gone way up.:tongue:

This is the laugh of the month maybe even year for me. I just totally got a photo in my mind of you with a mohawk and all the gold chains standing next to your NSX saying "I pity the fool"
 
Ok I have the tears of laughter wiped up.

Truthfully and not to be an ahole I really like the higher gas prices. It has thinned out traffic around here for sure. Sure stuff is more expensive and for me my profit margins are down as I sign year contracts with clients and there is not a provision for the increase of gas. Our monthly gas expense has increase by 25-35% not to mention those items, just about everything that is connected to fuel cost.

I am getting slayed on rubbish removal as they add in a fuel surcharge on the dumpsters now.
 
High gas prices = the only way anything will change. Forced efficiency is still efficiency.
 
Ok I have the tears of laughter wiped up.

Truthfully and not to be an ahole I really like the higher gas prices. It has thinned out traffic around here for sure. Sure stuff is more expensive and for me my profit margins are down as I sign year contracts with clients and there is not a provision for the increase of gas. Our monthly gas expense has increase by 25-35% not to mention those items, just about everything that is connected to fuel cost.

I am getting slayed on rubbish removal as they add in a fuel surcharge on the dumpsters now.


I like the high gas price too, less people at the lake as well :)
 
I like the high gas price too, less people at the lake as well :)

Unfortunately, I didn't notice that. :frown: Crowded as ever.
 
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