4.23 w/ FI and 6 spd?

[nsxotic911]

I am undergoing a clutch install.. and trying to determine whether I should go for the 4.23 Type R change....

I know this makes sense that you fall in V-TEC, you rev faster so you have the feeling of more torque and faster in acceleration in some cases (b/c you get to powerband/redline faster.) but are there reasons NOT to do it?

My concern is the impact on the street, shifting too much and in what scenarios are you slower (if you are)? Eg 0-60, qt mile, 60 - 120...120 - x etc..
The SOS site and other resources I found only have the 4.23 with the 5 spd and not the 6 spd.

Thanks in advance.
PS: 18 & 19" wheels, not stock 17s

 

[goldNSX]

As you've posted it in the FI section: I'd not do it on a FI car, there's plenty of torque.

 

[nsxotic911]

As you've posted it in the FI section: I'd not do it on a FI car, there's plenty of torque.

I know people that run 4.23 with FI (titaniumdave) and he likes it. Although I respect his opinion, need a 2nd one for such a big decision in life

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

In my experience, the 4.23 works well in cars making less than 400 wheel hp. Anything above that, the lower gears start to become useless especially with the 6-spd that has lower gear ratios 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[nsxotic911]

In my experience, the 4.23 works well in cars making less than 400 wheel hp. Anything above that, the lower gears start to become useless especially with the 6-spd that has lower gear ratios 2nd, 3rd, etc.

Cheers,
-- Chris

Well, I'm at about 375RWHP.... though 400+ may not be more than a few years away :biggrin:

 

[SaberX]

At first I wanted to the 6 spd, but for the kind of power I'm making (350ish rwhp) I actually find I love the powerband with the 5sp. It's also especially easy on the track as I shift a lot less and can focus on driving and throttle control.

 

[adrenaline_nsx]

only good to a certain amount of horsepower.

 

[01blacks4]

i have it with 600+ hp....i will soon be selling that tranny though...any takers?

 

[Chris NSX]

I have Comptech supercharger with 6 speed and 4.23, I love the feel and the acceleration. My NSX feels faster, but I am not sure if it was worth the extra money for the 4.23, 5 speed differential, and the labor cost.

I think there is still a problem with EPS and the NA2 6speed with 4.23. Don’t for get you will need a 5 speed differential to put in your 6 speed transmission.

 

[nsxotic911]

I have Comptech supercharger with 6 speed and 4.23, I love the feel and the acceleration. My NSX feels faster, but I am not sure if it was worth the extra money for the 4.23, 5 speed differential, and the labor cost.

I think there is still a problem with EPS and the NA2 6speed with 4.23. Don’t for get you will need a 5 speed differential to put in your 6 speed transmission.

EPS: Electronic Power Steering? Really.. that's not good. Why would it be affected?

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I agree with guys here saying that they don't recommend it on the higher horsepower FI cars. A fellow Las Vegas owner with a similar FX turbo and I switched cars for a while to see how each others car drove. He had the 4.23 gearing while I did not and at the time both of our cars were putting down 430 whp. The first thing I noticed is that there was too much shifting. It was a hand full to keep the car in boost and the tach just moved so fast. You felt like you constantly pegging off the redline; especially in first and second gears where our tires couldn't grab and just spun up to redline. At first it was fun, but it very quickly got very old. Meanwhile the guy I switched cars with basically said, "Man your car is so easy to drive." That is because you could just pick a gear and mash the gas. In a boosted car, the tires break loose so quickly and the tach flys up to 8K rpm so fast that the shorter gears actually becomes a nuisance.

 

[beckertb]

I will echo the sentiments of the above. My car has 500 rwhp and the longer gears really let the turbos stay spooled and do their job.

 

[goldNSX]

...In a boosted car, the tires break loose so quickly and the tach flys up to 8K rpm so fast that the shorter gears actually becomes a nuisance.

That's exactly my point. The 4.23 is like going from 265/35/18 to 245/40/17 diameterwise/accelerationwise. Please have in mind that the tire diameter plays an important role how the gearing 'feels'. As you have 19'' wheels and therefore are closer to the 265/35/18 diameter in the rear you could try it. I don't know how you've boosted your car but boosting is expensive so the 4.23 is maybe only a fraction of that. I personally would only do it if you already have dismounted the gearbox.

To most Europe people who ask me if I would do the 4.23 TOGETHER WITH THE SHORTIES on an NA car again I recommend: if money is an object: NO; if money is no object: DO IT. Please remind that we pay around $2000 for the 4.23 here in Europe. Regarding the price of $900 of SOS, it simplifies the answer to YES. It's a much easier decision if you already throw the shorties in and have the gearbox open.

Good luck!

 

[Chris NSX]

EPS: Electronic Power Steering? Really.. that's not good. Why would it be affected?

Look here, I can find the other threads on the 6 speed with 4.23 in a NA2.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94772&highlight=Electronic+Power+Steering

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44961&page=2

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74761&highlight=4.23+Electronic+Power+Steering

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23885

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=20801

 

[whiteNSXs]

I had CTSC, headers, and exhaust installed in my 1994 all stock NSX at 17k miles. I was very disappointed with the lack of torque and the tall 2nd. The CTSC did not help much at the low end. I then bought from SOS a tranny with TypeR short gears and 4.23 built by Mark Basch. That is the one single thing that brought the car from a slug to a very responsive car. If I get my next NSX, it will be with CTSC, 6sp and 4.23.
Steve

 

[MJK]

If you are going to upgrade a 6 speed to a 4.23, my understanding is that you must use the 5 speed diff in place of the 6 speed diff. (I'd love to be proven wrong on this BTW)

By the time you pay for all the necessary parts, why not just get the OSG4.44?

 

[swerve2007]

yes you need a used 5-spd lsd (i bought one for $300).
used 4.23 on jdm market usually sells for $400, new one from sos $900.
no matter how you look at it, the 6-spd 4.23 conversion will still be 50% of the price of geiken setup.

 

[MJK]

Well, if the clutch disks are in good shape then you got a deal. That said new is new and used is used. Regarding "no matter how you look at it, it is 1/2 the price" I am not sure I agree there.

$900 for the 4.23 R&P
$900 for new diff (your #s)
= $1800

OSG = $2500 complete

So, more like 3/4 than 1/2.

 

[swerve2007]

Well, if the clutch disks are in good shape then you got a deal. That said new is new and used is used. Regarding "no matter how you look at it, it is 1/2 the price" I am not sure I agree there.

$900 for the 4.23 R&P
$900 for new diff (your #s)
= $1800

OSG = $2500 complete

So, more like 3/4 than 1/2.

i don't mean to be petty but since we are going there:

4.44 geiken lsd for 6-spd at sos is $2970

4.23 at sos is $900, used 5-spd lsd $300-400 totalling at max $1300
now, i've seen jdm used 4.23 as low as $400 which could yeld total part cost at below $1000 which would be 1/3 the cost.

your comment about 'used' is pretty one-sided. your car's lsd is 'used' and will be 'used' for next 300k miles without a failure. obviously we have eyes and we don't have to buy parts that came out of a blown-up car.

 

[MJK]

Look, my intention is not to get into an argument with you either. I am not trying to be abrasive, but I do think I think I have a couple valid points here.

1. 5 speed diffs are clutch type units. Just like any other clutch, it wears. As it wears, the diff acts more like an open diff. So, still drivable but not as fast. Is that considered failure? I guess that depends on who you ask but it IS a wear item, and is not on a 300k depreciation curve like you suggest. I would agree with you if it is a torsen/worm gear type but it is not.

2. You seem to hate the phrase, but compare apples to apples. New IS new and used IS used. LSDs, especially clutch type ones DO wear with age and IMO the value correspondingly decreases. I am not saying I wouldn't buy it, I am saying you can't directly compare price.

As for the percentages, that does depend on where you buy things. You buy it at SoS if you want. That said, if you are willing to buy a 4.23 elsewhere I don't see why you wouldn't extend the same logic to the OSG. $2500, $2500, $2000

 

[Chris NSX]

I have seen used 4.44 Giken LSD for $1500.00 on prime.

I think the 4.44 giken would be a better setup for the track, but make noise at low speeds.

I went with the 4.23 because I wanted to have all OEM parts, but I don't think it was worth the money. Next time I would just put in the stock 6 speed and a RPS clutch.

 

[nsxotic911]

I have seen used 4.44 Giken LSD for $1500.00 on prime.

I think the 4.44 giken would be a better setup for the track, but make noise at low speeds.

I went with the 4.23 because I wanted to have all OEM parts, but I don't think it was worth the money. Next time I would just put in the stock 6 speed and a RPS clutch.

Is this N/A or FI?

 

[Chris NSX]

Is this N/A or FI?

FI:biggrin:

 

[swerve2007]

most 'used' lsds out there are quite low mileage and they were designed to last for the life of the car anyway. everything on a car is a wear item- you want to buy new, buy new.

as far as geiken is concerned, even at 2k it is still twice the price and from what i understand it is not an upgrade for a street car, it is way too abrupt. full-on track car, sure.

 

[nsxotic911]

It seems to me that the consensus is as follows:

For those that drive or own the car with 4.23 + CTSC:
+1, yay (titaniumdave)
+1 (Chris_NSX).. This is a valuable opinion since we have similar setup.. CTSC, probably in the 35-375 RWHP range and 6 SPD..
-1, Nay (Chris@SOS) I'm assuming he drove one although not explicit..
-1, Nay (Vega$NSX)

Total: 0

For those that have NOT driven or own a car with 4.23 + CTSC and share opinions :biggrin:
+1 (GoldNSX) Recommendation was based on the fact that I have 19"s.. though I also have 18's in the garage...
-1 (john@microsoft) Opinions, opinions, opinions, though generally good ones
Total: 0

For those are boosted but not w/ 6 SPD AND 4.23
+1 (WhiteNSX) This is b/c his experience is on 5SPD + 4.23 + CTSC though he wants the 6 SPD + 4.23
-1 (beckertb) - Lots of HP + short gears, bad idea..
-1 (Saberx)

Total = -1

-1+0 +0 = -1, enh.