4 wheel steering... What happened to it?
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
As far as I know, most of the system were mainly designed to aid in parking and low speed maneuvers. HICAS was a bit different because it aimed to help handling. Unfortunately it was quite unpredictable, especially in long, high speed turns.
Anytime we built drift cars back in the day (mostly 240sx and R32s), we always ripped out the HICAS systems and fitted aftermarket "HICAS delete" bars.
I would guesstimate that it was killed due to added cost of materials, manufacturing and service (more parts to break); without adding much noticeable benefit. Simple cost analysis.
Anytime we built drift cars back in the day (mostly 240sx and R32s), we always ripped out the HICAS systems and fitted aftermarket "HICAS delete" bars.
I would guesstimate that it was killed due to added cost of materials, manufacturing and service (more parts to break); without adding much noticeable benefit. Simple cost analysis.
the movement lost traction.
Same place this went....
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Just seems like an incredible way to make a car handle better. Wonder why it was really abandoned. Sure it costs some and perhaps the handling benefits weren't a lot then but it seems like good technology to try to refine. I mean a few degrees in toe or camber make a huge difference in handling, imagine if it was more and active... Controlled by one of the much more powerful processors now. I would expect to see that in the GTR since it's so techno and Nissan was one of this technology's backers.
The Mits VR4 had it too, along with active aero... Another promising technology that's kind of dead other than active rear spoilers.
I wonder if the new NSX will have any of this.... Crap. LOL
The Mits VR4 had it too, along with active aero... Another promising technology that's kind of dead other than active rear spoilers.
I wonder if the new NSX will have any of this.... Crap. LOL
They (Honda and other manufacturers) took a technology that was ridiculously rock solid (the mechanical planetary gear system on '88-91 4WS Preludes), attempted to apply more technology and made it unpredictable & unreliable. The 4WS setup on the old Preludes is so simple and easy to install that they regularly get removed from trashed ones & reinstalled in 'Ludes that are in better condition. I know because I did it to the '88 that my son drives and I have NEVER driven a car that corners like that one.
Great concept that got thrown by the wayside because engineers forget that simpler is sometimes better.
Great concept that got thrown by the wayside because engineers forget that simpler is sometimes better.
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Be lucky if the new NSX had heated seats and cup holders. :wink:
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It jumped!!! I had totally forgotten about this!
Made by Bose though you knew it was bound to fail. LOL
Nope. One of the best autocross cars you'll ever see and I've taken interstate loop ramps & back roads at crazy speeds. If the tires don't give up, there's not much it can't handle.
Apparently they are still working on this. It had three major problems, weight, huge amounts of electrical draw and heat dissipation. Hybrids may be the saving grace of this system as it eliminates one of the problems - electric capacity.
Never seen one win a SCCA Solo championship....
The Prelude with 4WS set the record in all the auto mags slalom tests, but....
"With 4WS, you get more lateral displacement with less yaw, which means more of your tires' total grip "budget" goes towards lateral displacement (the ultimate goal in a slalom) and less goes towards rotation. Taken to extremes, you could have a car that does not yaw at all and put all of your tires' grip towards lateral displacement, but it wouldn't turn.
The tradeoff is that in elements where the objective is to change the heading of the car (just about everything that isn't a slalom), a 4WS car has to waste grip making the car move laterally that could be going towards making the car rotate. In other words, you have to slow down more for turns."
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bwhahaha Like they said, "No highs, no lows, must be Bose.":biggrin:
Never seen one win a SCCA Solo championship....
I've only ever seen one at a meet (in Chattanooga) & it smoked everything else that was there. Freaked everyone out. Problem with that car was that there never was a whole lot of them to begin with. Like I said, a great concept that got thrown by the wayside.
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You're correct. It looks like the phase with the front wheels changes as the steering angle increases.
Some good information on the 3rd gen 'lude and 4WS here: http://antholonet.com/EngineersCars/3GPrelude/3gprelude.html
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I believe Nissan is still using HICAS in some Infinity models such as the G37.
Personally, I don't care for the technology. In my 300ZX (91, so hydraulic vs electric in the later years) You can notice it on high speed manuevers and it creates an unnatural feeling in the rear of the car. Almost like the back end is going to come around, but it never does.
It may make the car quicker, but I prefer to not have it.
Personally, I don't care for the technology. In my 300ZX (91, so hydraulic vs electric in the later years) You can notice it on high speed manuevers and it creates an unnatural feeling in the rear of the car. Almost like the back end is going to come around, but it never does.
It may make the car quicker, but I prefer to not have it.
shawn110975
Suspended
honda continued the 4WS all the way thru 1995 in the preludes not 91
they had a Vtec badged Prelude and a 4WS prelude the last year in that body style
they had a Vtec badged Prelude and a 4WS prelude the last year in that body style
Shawn, that's true but the 4WS in the 4G Preludes was totally different than the 3G. The 3G version was mechanical / hydraulic while the 4G was electronic. This is a 3G 4WS system, they even have a larger PS pump than the 2WS models:
The rear "rack" is a planetary gear mechanism that is connected to the steering rack via a distribution shaft. When re-installing one of these, it's absolutely vital that the rear rack be centered as there's 32 possible positions that it can be in but only one is truly centered:
The electronic 4WS in the 4G Preludes looked like this with angle sensors at each wheel and a controller that was located behind the rear seat:
I have spent quite a bit of time on preludepower.com over the years and the vast majority of the 4G 4WS owners suffered controller or sensor failure at some point while I have never heard of a 3G system failing unless the front rack went bad. Considering some of them are now 23 years old, that's pretty good reliability.
Found this interesting little blurb on Wikipedia, too:
"In 1991, the Honda NSX replaced the Prelude as the "halo car" at Honda Verno dealerships in Japan. The drag coefficient was at the very low rating of .34. This gave better fuel economy, lower wind noise, and a greater level of high-speed stability. Another unique structural element of the third generation Prelude was the high-strength metal (aluminum) used in the six roof pillars. In 1987, Road & Track published a test summary that shows the 1988 Honda Prelude 2.0Si 4WS outperforming every car of that year on the Slalom, including all Lamborghinis, Ferraris, and Porsches. It went through the slalom at 65.5 mph (105.4 km/h), an amazing result for the time. For reference, the 1988 Corvette took the same course at 64.9 mph (104.4 km/h)."
If I sound like a 3G fanboi, it's because I am. There were 3 cars that I always wanted to own, a G2 Legend Coupe, an '88-91 4WS Prelude and a NSX. I've got all 3 and while the NSX is my baby, the 4WS 'Lude is an absolute blast to drive. If you ever get the chance to take one out on a mountain road, I highly recommend it.
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With the advance of sophistication in ABS and AWD systems, and using braking or accelerative differences between wheels to assist in cornering, isn't a complex 4ws obviated by things like "SHAWD"?
Basically it became obsolete. Advanced technologies such as independent wheel power distribution are far less expensive yet achieve the same, or better, performance as 4 wheel steering.
A quaalude?:tongue:
