Acura vs Lexus/BMW/MB/Audi and etc.

[TigerNSX]

I recently drove the new TSX. Although I had not been a fan of its exterior design based on the press photos, the car looked great in person. The "controversial" gigantic silver grille somehow worked well with the overall design theme. What surprised me the most was the way it drove. The engine was eager to rev just like S2000 and NSX, with smooth delivery of power. Its handling was precise and ride was firm, yet comfortable.

I have owned various BMW 3-Series, Mercedes C and E classes, Audi A4 and A6 cars, previously. I would definitely consider the new TSX as well as the new TL (I have not yet driven or seen it in person) if I am in the market for a sports sedan.

Nevertheless, my wife, who joined me during the test drive, did not agree with my assessment. She told me that she would not consider the new TSX at all. She could not pinpoint exactly why, but she would still lean towards BMW, Audi or MB.

What is Acura missing that other luxury car makers are doing right with consumers in the luxury car market segment? Marketing? Quality of products? Design? Performance? Brand image?

I would love to hear your "unbiased" opinion.

 

[brandonsan]

I would say Acura is missing brand image and marketing. Their marketing is what makes it a inferior brand image. Acura quality and technology is # 1, hands down.

 

[Moses]

Pick her up in the new TL, tell her it's a new MB and cover all the emblems up and see what she says after driving it :biggrin:

 

[otto_joe]

Perceived status. Why else parade around carrying LV purses and there is no substitute.

I think brandonson hit it on the head with marketing, but I'd also like to add that Acura still fails to provide RWD in their lineup like Infiniti or Lexus which would have really helped to draw a line between an Accord and a TSX.

At one time my wife would have considered Acura as a luxury line, but not anymore. :redface: For her; it's Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes in that order.

Otto

 

[fullracehonda]

Pick her up in the new TL, tell her it's a new MB and cover all the emblems up and see what she says after driving it :biggrin:

sadly, that will most likely work. lol


does your wife know that acura is a brand of honda?

 

[Alittleboost]

its marketing and performance I would say...I think the new TSX is very nice..but the TL should have been a Rwd car.

A lot of women are also superficial.

 

[TigerNSX]

It takes a long time to build the brand image. In the early 90s, people viewed Acura and Lexus as almost equivalent in terms of prestige, didn't they?

What did Acura do wrong whereas Lexus did right in the past 10-15 years? Is it because Acura's premium car Legend/RL was just not competitive against Lexus' LS?

Then, it could not just be the marketing problem.. their products are simply not competitive enough.

Once considered premium cars such as Saab and Volvo are falling behind BMW/Audi/MB/Lexus as well in terms of perceived prestige and the quality of its vehicle.

I would say Acura is missing brand image and marketing. Their marketing is what makes it a inferior brand image. Acura quality and technology is # 1, hands down.

I do not know if this is true. 2008 J.D. Power and Associates IQS shows Acura as below the industry average (Porsche, Infiniti, Lexus, MB hold top spots).

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pdf/2008063.pdf

 

[docjohn]

If your wife is like mine, the intangables imo come down to suspension damping/steering feel and tactile sensation of the controls.Anything I feel as sporty is too stiff/harsh for my wife.

 

[RPM217]

Last week I went down to Pocono Raceway and participated in the Audi Drive Experience. We drove first on the AutoX course the new A4, MB C-4matic, BMW328IX, Lexus IS/AWD, I have to say that I was very impressed with the A4. All of the cars were AWD, automatics, with very low mileage. We were free to push the cars as hard as we wanted. After the back to back comparisons, we went out in "run groups", with helmets, led by an "instructor". We hit about 160KPH on the straights, the track was laid out with the line, braking points etc. The only car that we drove on this segment was the A4, the car really is well sorted. Out of all the cars that I drove that day, the Audi was by far the best handling/performing car. JMHO

 

[Khiladi1020]

I think the problem is based on a combination of image (marketing) and a really dull period between 1995-today of not having a V8 luxury car to compete with the LS that younger buyers or previous Legend buyers could have stepped up into. "Image" because Acura does build quality cars often stuffed with the technological offerings like its competitors, but doesn't get the notice it used to.... so part of this is bad or lack of good marketing.

But I also really put the blame on the RL never becoming that desirable car that people who wanted to drop $50k would get into. It was doomed and hated by the press since '96 when it went into ultra-conservative styling mdoe and featured a sub-par engine for a car that was supposed to be Acura's best. (210hp? Come on.) The offerings from its competitors (Lexus) meanwhile stepped up and really began to establish themselves as the standard. Meanwhile all Acura had as far as "desirability" was an Integra. Even the NSX lost attention late in its life as the Supra and other offerings became high-performance cars for less money. Finally the '99 or so TL came out as a smart design that sold well, and now you have Acura again known for its Integra and a mid-size car, a TL. That's all the general public had to think of as to what Acura was all about--and for too long a time. There was nothing nearly as desirable and prestigious at that point in time that could compete with what the LS400 had become, the 2nd gen GS400, or the E39 and E65 BMWs, and on and on...
And still it took so damn long for a revamped RL with 300hp to come out, the image suffered immensely and was a grade or 2 behind the others. And when the press and enthusiasts said "still no V8?" they figured, forget about it. "Acura is good for small and V6 mid-size cars, but if you want something with serious luxury, ride, and power, you gotta go with Lexus, MB, BMW, etc." That's my feeling from what I've gathered at least....

I think the timeline chart at the bottom of this page (see link) will sum up what Acura has been. Compare the offerings with that of MB, BMW, Lexus, has had during the same time, and you'll see why people don't think of Acura at the same level anymore. :frown:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_RL

 

[Liquid]

Last week I went down to Pocono Raceway and participated in the Audi Drive Experience. We drove first on the AutoX course the new A4, MB C-4matic, BMW328IX, Lexus IS/AWD, I have to say that I was very impressed with the A4. All of the cars were AWD, automatics, with very low mileage. We were free to push the cars as hard as we wanted. After the back to back comparisons, we went out in "run groups", with helmets, led by an "instructor". We hit about 160KPH on the straights, the track was laid out with the line, braking points etc. The only car that we drove on this segment was the A4, the car really is well sorted. Out of all the cars that I drove that day, the Audi was by far the best handling/performing car. JMHO

Was this the redesigned '09 MY car?

 

[sahtt]

I haven't driven the brand new TSX, but I think BMW's still have a superior driving feel to them. I don't know if the statistics back it up proportionally or not, but they handle better, crisper, and more confidently.

Against an IS it's much closer.

 

[Moses]

new tl comes in AWD:biggrin:

its marketing and performance I would say...I think the new TSX is very nice..but the TL should have been a Rwd car.

A lot of women are also superficial.

 

[RPM217]

Was this the redesigned '09 MY car?

Yes,and these were pre-production, no vin Euro cars with US specs. The car has the new system where you can leave it in "comfort, auto, or dynamic" When in dynamic, it raises the shift points, tightens the steering and stiffens the suspension, car feels fantastic, the brakes were awesome too.

 

[GreyHoundSteve]

Perceived status. Why else parade around carrying LV purses and there is no substitute.

I think brandonson hit it on the head with marketing, but I'd also like to add that Acura still fails to provide RWD in their lineup like Infiniti or Lexus which would have really helped to draw a line between an Accord and a TSX.

At one time my wife would have considered Acura as a luxury line, but not anymore. :redface: For her; it's Lexus, BMW, and Mercedes in that order.

Otto

I agree. I have happily owned a 92 Acura Legend for a long time now and it has been a good car for me but when i was recently shopping for replacements the front wheel drive Acuras just didn't seem to drive as nice as the rwd Lexus and Infiniti did. The interior of the Acura also isn't nearly as nice as the new Lexus seem imho.

I kept telling myself that for less money the Acura would be a better contender but at the current prices Lexus has imo the best product and Infiniti packs more punch for the price. Acura should have done a better job with the new designs and added a V8 and RWD option to their tired line up.

 

[MoogieBoogie]

With the designs coming out from Acura these days, I can't see their image improving over the next few years. Factor in the debacle with their transmissions in their bread & butter TL/CL and some MDX models, I'm not surprised they fell behind Lexus in prestige and quality.

Have you had a chance to compare it to comparable and current Lexus, MB, BMW offerings? I'm really liking the new Audi A4.

 

[lunchman]

My wife and I recently went through the comparison between Acura and Lexus. We were looking for a replacement for her Accord and a recent thread in this section pointed out the Lexus IS 250. I did some research, we went to the dealer and went for a test drive. She was happy with the way it drove, the way it looked, features it came with and the fact that it was a Lexus, but still wanted to look at Acura's offerings. The car also felt a bit small and to move up to a model that was similar to the Accord in size would have required a bit more than we were willing to spend.

We looked at the new TSX, decided it wasn't the right size and test drove an 08 TL. Having come from an Accord, the TL felt right and the value for the money spent is excellent. I think Acura is doing things right in offering the vehicle with the single option of the nav system (which we have in our 08). Comparing the features we got with the TL vs. the comparable features in the Lexus, I think we got a better value in buying the Acura vs. the Lexus.

Of course, we're coming from a slightly biased viewpoint as this is now our third Acura in the household, plus we've had the Accord and prior to the RSX, an Integra.

I do think Acura is hurting themselves with some bland styling over the past few years and by not offering a V8 in the RL. And of course, they're no longer offering any sort of sports cars - not even sporty cars like the RSX.

 

[DrVolkl]

Was waiting for the new TL with the AWD (until I saw what it looked like)...now I'm hoping for the TSX with AWD...but most likely will be getting a 335xi coupe.

I'm trying to like Acura/Honda...but they're not making it easy right now.

 

[GreyHoundSteve]

Was waiting for the new TL with the AWD (until I saw what it looked like)...now I'm hoping for the TSX with AWD...but most likely will be getting a 335xi coupe.

I'm trying to like Acura/Honda...but they're not making it easy right now.

Agreed. Hondas have been hands down the best cars i have owned as far as reliability is concerned but i am getting to the point now where i'm more scared than excited to see what Acuras next offering will be. At some point they have to break away from what they have been doing and start thinking about what they need to be doing to stay competitive with what the other Japanese luxury brands are offering.

Lexus is now in the same breath as MB and BMW and Infiniti is really making a push with their new models styling and performance. Acura hasn't given their customers anything to get excited about since the 2004 TL restyling. IMO that was the last thing Acuras design team did right.

 

[DrVolkl]

Lexus is now in the same breath as MB and BMW and Infiniti is really making a push with their new models styling and performance. Acura hasn't given their customers anything to get excited about since the 2004 TL restyling. IMO that was the last thing Acuras design team did right.

The funny thing is that I think the last TL Type S is a FANTASTIC looking car. The only thing holding me back was the FWD. I was so excited for the new TL...but what did they do to it?!

Hey ACURA: Your new Global Defining Grille design SUCKS! Stop forcing it on every car just to get brand recognition!! It's not necessary!! Subaru made the same mistake with it's airplane thingy they did a couple years ago...at least they realized their mistake and corrected it quickly!

 

[GreyHoundSteve]

The funny thing is that I think the last TL Type S is a FANTASTIC looking car. The only thing holding me back was the FWD. I was so excited for the new TL...but what did they do to it?!

Hey ACURA: Your new Global Defining Grille design SUCKS! Stop forcing it on every car just to get brand recognition!! It's not necessary!! Subaru made the same mistake with it's airplane thingy they did a couple years ago...at least they realized their mistake and corrected it quickly!

I agree. I went and drove the type S and i liked it as well but for the $ i wouldn't go fwd. The same day i drove the type S i also drove the G35s and that day i thought if i had to chose one then, it would have been the g35.

 

[DrVolkl]

My 2004 S4 is getting ready to be traded in....I was able to get the wifey a nice Odyssey, but there's really nothing from Acura that does it for me.

The RL was fair...but for that price it doesn't really excite me. The new TL Type S seemed like the perfect fit for me...but I can't stand how ugly it is. I mean...it really is hideous. I'll take a look at it in person just to make sure...but why would I not just get a 335xi or '10 S4 (out next year).

I imagine the TL Type S will come in cheaper...so it will have that going for it.

If the TSX gets the SH AWD like it appears it can handle...it may make a decent car and it's definitely not nearly as bad looking as the others...in fact it looks decent in certain colors.

 

[TigerNSX]

What's interesting is that Honda did not enforce the grill in the European market for the RL/Legend.

Look at these comparison pictures below. The gigantic silver grill actually does not look that bad on the new RL..

 

[DrVolkl]

If that grille on the European model swaps right into the US version, that would be pretty cool. Maybe I should go price out an RL! lol

It's really not THAT bad on the RL...(the US grille) but on the new TL it seems to go just a little too far.

 

[GreyHoundSteve]

If that grille on the European model swaps right into the US version, that would be pretty cool. Maybe I should go price out an RL! lol

It's really not THAT bad on the RL...(the US grille) but on the new TL it seems to go just a little too far.

Yeah i'm sort of thinking the same thing. It is probably extremely easy to swap out the grill and i'm sure many better looking options are or will be available aftermarket. I might have to look around and see whats out there. I haven't driven the awd RL yet.:biggrin: