AMG V12 Twin Turbo Benz

[Carguy!]

A renntech chipped SL65 with exhaust on slicks ran low 11s all day long (there is a video on putfile of it). In fact, the track marshels warned the driver to slow down, as the car lacked a roll cage. Even tapping the brakes at the end, the car would run mid 11s runs one after and other. A similar car broke into the high 10s as well.

Now the negative issues:

1. Gas mileage in the city (with lots of stop and go) with even a light foot is 6-8mpg, though, on the highway you can get up to 20 if you are not aggressive with the gas pedal and cruising at 75-80. (At worst you will get 15mpg or so, with 14s if you are REALLY being liberal in its application)

2. Under-engineered (for a German car at least). Not to say they are bad, in fact the cars have lots of great concepts but none of them are taken to the level of execution that used to be seen in the late 90s S classes or BMW 7s.

There are quite a few things that are not accurate in this thread.

I have an SL65 and I get about 14mpg driving around town, if someone you know is getting 6-8mpg they should have their car looked at.

I don't know how you can call these cars "Under-engineered", the cars are some of the most sophisticated cars I have ever seen. It is amazing that they can make you feel like you are driving around in a V6 and when you get on it you feel like you are riding on a jet.

The 65 series engines are 6.0 liters and the 600 series engines are 5.5 liters, I know it is confusing but it is true.

I just sold my Renntech '03 S600 and I agree that those are a bargain for someone who wants a great daily driver with an insane amount of power. I drove it through the winter and it is crazy how much power the car makes on zero degree days! It could break the tires loose at any speed up to 70mph at will.

You can't compare these cars to something like the NSX, they are polar opposites of the performance spectrum. These cars are straight line fast and stop pretty well for their weight but are not sports cars and never will be.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I would imagine that this was all in the interests to save weight? When you start "overbuilding" things, the weight adds up quickly. Light weight isn't really a consideration or design goal on a 500+ hp Sedan, as opposed to the NSX, where Honda was meticulous about saving as much weight as they possibly could, down to every component/subsystem.

No, its just old technology. If you take apart a regular TSX its 10X better than an NSX. Its just late 80's early 90's tech way of doing things. You can definitely do better and save weight as evidenced in many other cars. Its not the NSX's fault, its just 15 years old.

The thing is several times on this forum I have been told various things like I liked the 600 because it was "blingy", or that the MB is just an unreliable porky pig, etc. I think the members making those comments here have never had personal experience with a 140K car and its easy to sit and criticize from the bench... I loved my MB and I love the NSX. The MB was certainly much more "car", the NSX is more "fun". NSX is a real sports car but it sorely lacks some basic tech that is prevalent now in other cars. I am sure it will be addressed in the next generation.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I don't know how you can call these cars "Under-engineered", the cars are some of the most sophisticated cars I have ever seen.

Absolutely true.... there is a level of sophistication that high up in MB that is found in few other cars. Even dropping down one notch to an E class or a CLK you are talking about a completely different feeling vehicle. Hard to describe unless you have driven both. Unfortunately lots of people drive an E class and assume they know what a V12 SL or CL feels like.

 

[Ben]

No, its just old technology. If you take apart a regular TSX its 10X better than an NSX. Its just late 80's early 90's tech way of doing things. You can definitely do better and save weight as evidenced in many other cars. Its not the NSX's fault, its just 15 years old.

The thing is several times on this forum I have been told various things like I liked the 600 because it was "blingy", or that the MB is just an unreliable porky pig, etc. I think the members making those comments here have never had personal experience with a 140K car and its easy to sit and criticize from the bench... I loved my MB and I love the NSX. The MB was certainly much more "car", the NSX is more "fun". NSX is a real sports car but it sorely lacks some basic tech that is prevalent now in other cars. I am sure it will be addressed in the next generation.

Weight saving wasn't really a primary design goal of the TSX either, I don't think.

As for reliability, I'm hoping this doesn't start a flame war....

I can't speak for the newer models, but we've got a 1997 S500. While it's nice, overengineered, solidly built with premium quality materials, and features galore, it's the 2nd most unreliable car we've ever owned over the 60K miles we've had it. Over the past 2 years, it's gone into the shop for unscheduled repairs on average of every 3-4 months. The 1st most unreliable car we've owned is the 1995 S500 that Mercedes reluctantly bought back from us at 20K miles and replaced with the above mentioned '97. We were the original owners of both cars, and all scheduled maintenance was performed at the M-B dealer. Friends who own S320s and S420s of that generation have reported similar experiences.

To be fair, we also had a 1984 300D Turbo, and that was rock solid reliable.

 

[ghost]

Actually the 0-60 time is even faster then reported above !!!

Get an s600 and renntech it..and you practically got an s65... much cheaper this way...

check out this s600....beating up on supras, porsche 911 TURBO ..etc....

amazing !!!!! wow

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4181889089827105935&q=s600

 

[Auraraptor]

There are quite a few things that are not accurate in this thread.

I have an SL65 and I get about 14mpg driving around town, if someone you know is getting 6-8mpg they should have their car looked at.

I have a SL600, and short trips with a cold engine, thats exactly what I see. I had it checked out by the dealer but everything was normal. Supposedly from the factory the cars run a little rich.

BTW Driving in "Suburbia", after the car is warmed up, I see 12mpg.

I don't know how you can call these cars "Under-engineered", the cars are some of the most sophisticated cars I have ever seen. It is amazing that they can make you feel like you are driving around in a V6 and when you get on it you feel like you are riding on a jet.

Your reply doesn't address the particularities of the exact post I made, so I repeat: ...the cars have lots of great concepts but none of them are taken to the level of execution that used to be seen in the late 90s S classes or BMW 7s. I then went on to post just two examples of what I mean. Again this also from experience as well. I just felt (and still do) that the cars could have used perhaps another 6 months of R&D to smooth out the little things.

The 65 series engines are 6.0 liters and the 600 series engines are 5.5 liters, I know it is confusing but it is true.

I don't think I ever mentioned anything to that effect...

You can't compare these cars to something like the NSX, they are polar opposites of the performance spectrum. These cars are straight line fast and stop pretty well for their weight but are not sports cars and never will be.

I was just using the NSX as a frame of reference that most on this site would be able to understand.
I was just really disappointed how bad (subjectively) the steering feel is. My Range Rover MKIII has better steering feedback/feel (it was based of the E38 7 series, which also weighs more and has better steering feedback/feel). It is not just my car either, every Mercedes product that I have even driven has the same steering.

Since you have a 65, then you probably know of that touch of "syrup" in the steering. It is hard to explain, but if you experienced it you know what I am talking about.

Despite everything I should say this again:
The V12 benzs make GREAT daily drivers. Very comfortable, relaxing cars.

I am actually looking for a R129 SL600 to perhaps add as well. I always loved their looks.

 

[Auraraptor]

Unfortunately lots of people drive an E class and assume they know what a V12 SL or CL feels like.

My posts are from direct personal experience with my 2004 SL600.
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