• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Any experience w/Tein Flex?? Please help :(

Joined
19 November 2007
Messages
67
Location
Toronto
I just got my car back today, one of the things I had done was to install my new Tein Flex coilovers.
I am not happy with the ride....
Its REALLY "bouncy", not stiff, bouncy. I know that its a very popular and good quality set up so Im assuming (hoping:redface: ) that its just a matter of adjusting the stiffness setting, also, its not low enough for my asthetic goal either so that need to be adjusted too.

My last car was a 1994 Prelude SRV and it was ON THE FLOOR!! (really low, my front lip was maybe 3" off the ground) I was dropped then, on Tokico Illumina Adjustable struts and Skunk2 coilovers. The ride quality wasnt great but considering the extreme drop, it was acceptable. To that end tho, the NSX now is much worse than the 'lude was.

Anybody know what I should do? Anyone run into this problem before?

Please help!!
Thanks
Marc

PS: I had the body shop guy, install the coilovers thinkin it was just a matter of bolting them into place. He wasnt sure about the adjustments.
 
You need an alignment and you have to corner balance the car. Then you can play with the dampening/rebound.
 
Corner balancing can help your overall suspension setup but will not address the issue you're posting about your ride in any way. IMHO, corner balancing is not needed unless you're an advanced driver and you're going to competitively track your car.

I have the Flex suspension as well and had the same issues as you. I drive around with my firmness settings on nearly full hard to tune out the bounciness. Try doing that. And if you lower your car more, make sure to adjust only the bottom part, not the spring perch. If you lower via the spring perch it'll load up the spring more and you'll exacerbate the problem.

Good luck.

J
 
get a softer springs. the 10/12k is way too stiff for you.

none of any world's alignment, corner balancing would help.

you could stiffen it up, but the nvh will be higher, and it's going to be very punishing when you hit a freeway joint...

I had Tein RA before, and it felt better as I stiffen it up. It wasn't a comfy ride, I even think twice bringing left over soup in it. (it'll spill and it's not from lateral acceleration!!)
 
However, corner balancing is absolutely unnecessary.

I'm confused and curious. If you get a full coilover suspension why would you not corner balance it? And, if you're not going to corner balance then why get a coilover to begin with?
 
I'm confused and curious. If you get a full coilover suspension why would you not corner balance it? And, if you're not going to corner balance then why get a coilover to begin with?

Simple.. for the average Joe, corner balancing is a complete waste of their time and money. Can you honestly say that you can feel any performance gain between a corner balanced car vs non? I highly doubt it.

I've been road racing for MANY MANY years, and although corner balancing does help, for a daily driver or a person that just does HPDE's, i doubt they would even know the difference - ever.

If i swapped your springs out with 50lbs difference, you probably wouldn't even know it, or if i adjusted your bound/rebound by 2-3 clicks, you'd have no idea... or raised/lowered your tire pressures by 1-2psi...

Maybe Schumacher can tell... but those guys are pro's.

You buy a nice suspension setup to have a nice suspension setup; for whatever the buyers' reasoning is.

Does everyone that buys a new HDTV have HD digital cable? No.

We're not talking about condoms... you don't put one on unless you're going to f*ck.

:p
 
+1 Yup, corner balancing won't do anything for the bouncing. Play with your dampening. Another thing I noticed is too low of preload and I would get some bounce, too much bounce.

As for corner balancing, average joe no needs corner balancing. There are LOTS of things out there that average joe DOES NOT need or will ever need and many PRETEND to notice a "gain" or "difference".
 
I just got my tein flex and edfc installed recently. Did not notice any bouncing driving home, although I can't remember what mine was set at.
 
Corner balancing DOES affect ride quality. A properly corner-balanced car will have better street 'ride' characteristics than one that has a lot of cross-weight (aka: wedge) in it. It will however not improve the 'bounciness' that is pretty common with Tein Flex dampers when on their softer settings.

Corner balancing is worth it IMO as a 1-time investment (usually $300 depending on the shop and if they truly do it correctly on a leveled ground, not "eh, the concrete ground 'looks' flat to me...:rolleyes:). After your car is corner balanced with the equivalent of you sitting in it, then you should never have to corner balance it again. To change the ride height, equal amount of turns right to left on the spring perches will not affect the corner balancing. Thus, you won't have re-corner balance the car after you change your ride height.

Is corner-balancing worth it for the average joe? Right now you won't feel a 'problem' per say, and i'm sure if its close your car will handle fine with no quirks. But after proper corner-balancing the car, it will feel much better. I've done my own study with a few of my cars with random friends with varying driving backgrounds, and all of them notice something that they cant put their fingers on that is much better (car after it's been properly corner balanced)... Just my take, and for me, I would recommend it.


With the Flex's short travel and high spring rates: when on the softer suspension settings, the suspension is under damped (Dampen = to make wetter :wink:) and the car is riding on the spring = bouncy. You can increase the stiffness of the dampers and you will get rid of the oscillation/bounciness, but the ride will be much stiffer. Its a tossup between softer and bouncier or stiffer and harder. -This is just the compromise for this particular damper.

What are the Flex's springrates from Tein, are they really 10/12K f/r? If so, that is WAY too stiff and I would try to fit some softer Swift Springs under there.



0.02
 
+1 Yup, corner balancing won't do anything for the bouncing. Play with your dampening. Another thing I noticed is too low of preload and I would get some bounce, too much bounce.

As for corner balancing, average joe no needs corner balancing. There are LOTS of things out there that average joe DOES NOT need or will ever need and many PRETEND to notice a "gain" or "difference".
For the Tein Flex Dampers - You shouldn't pre-load the spring atall, all your doing is limiting your already minimal amount of droop travel.
 
I've done my own study with a few of my cars with random friends with varying driving backgrounds, and all of them notice something that they cant put their fingers on that is much better (car after it's been properly corner balanced)... Just my take, and for me, I would recommend it.

I don't want to get into a huge debate over this :p however, the average joe honestly would never feel the difference with a stock car/un-corner balanced vs a balanced one. (provided the unbalanced car wasn't horrendously out of wack to begin with)

I'm pretty sure, if you took 2 cars, and had your "random" friends drive them both and give you their opinions, they'd say that one feels better than the other, EVEN IF you did absolutely nothing to any of them and just TOLD THEM (lied) that one of them was corner balanced.

I've done the same tests.

Keep in mind, i'm sure you have far more track experience than the average joe too, thus you and I "can" feel these minor changes.

IMO, matching the dampers/springs with the sway bars and your driving style, would be a far more worthwhile and noticable change, than corner balancing.

:D
 
I don't want to get into a huge debate over this :p however, the average joe honestly would never feel the difference with a stock car/un-corner balanced vs a balanced one. (provided the unbalanced car wasn't horrendously out of wack to begin with)

I'm pretty sure, if you took 2 cars, and had your "random" friends drive them both and give you their opinions, they'd say that one feels better than the other, EVEN IF you did absolutely nothing to any of them and just TOLD THEM (lied) that one of them was corner balanced.

I've done the same tests.

Keep in mind, i'm sure you have far more track experience than the average joe too, thus you and I "can" feel these minor changes.
For these kinds of studies you don't tell your subjects "This product will make you happy, or this product will make you lose weight, or this car was corner balanced":rolleyes: :tongue:

Friends and family members have commented without me saying anything) that something was different and better. I tend to surround myself with good people, but even the least experienced people whom I would never expect a comment from noticed a difference. -Again, this is from my experience and my opinion (for whatever that matters). I'm not going to turn it into a pissing contest of he said she said. -Just feedback from what I have noticed not just myself, but have seen first person from MANY people driving MANY different cars before and after cornerbalancing (my friend's shop does it close to me so when i'm bored, I play around with this stuff).

IMO, matching the dampers/springs with the sway bars and your driving style, would be a far more worthwhile and noticable change, than corner balancing.

:D
And how would you recommend matching the dampers to springs to swaybars to driving style? Are you recommending having his dampers (which often aren't even matched to eachother off the shelf) on a shock dyno, see the damping rates and match a spring to that? -Combined with some heavy math to figure out the motion ratios, wheel rates, swaybar rates, etc... -combined and matched with his driving style/preferences? And who would be able to do that?

-Just being the devil's advocate

People view suspension as simply: swaybar X with damper/coilover Y. It's far more complex (like a spider web) where everything relies and is affected by oneanother. You forgot to mention wheel width, offset, tire size, power levels, etc... to the equation.

Slippery-slope? -maybe, but it all ties together and often many people end up years and thousands upon thousands of dollars later with a setup they still aren't happy with and are not quite sure how to get closer to their goals without spending thousands of dollars and years more to get there... Rather than finding the right person/situation and doing it right the first time or setting a game plan of their goals/expenses to reach those goals.

0.02
 
[Forgive my ignorance. What is corner balancing?[/

They would put your weght in the drivers seat, then make adjustments to make your car level. Once you are out of the car it would then not be level.

Lance
 
So what damper settings are people using with the tein flex and edfc? I think mine was set at 10 up front and 10 in the back.

As far as corner balancing goes, if the guy that wears the g-suit while racing says it helps, then I will take his word for it:biggrin: Although I'll give my suspension some time to settle in before I take my car in for additional alignment work.
 
For these kinds of studies you don't tell your subjects "This product will make you happy, or this product will make you lose weight, or this car was corner balanced":rolleyes: :tongue:

hehe you never know :p

Friends and family members have commented without me saying anything) that something was different and better. I tend to surround myself with good people, but even the least experienced people whom I would never expect a comment from noticed a difference. -Again, this is from my experience and my opinion (for whatever that matters). I'm not going to turn it into a pissing contest of he said she said. -Just feedback from what I have noticed not just myself, but have seen first person from MANY people driving MANY different cars before and after cornerbalancing (my friend's shop does it close to me so when i'm bored, I play around with this stuff).

i'm not going to argue that it didn't happen :biggrin: , but people/friends that have driven our race car never even noticed a difference after it was corner balanced AND 150lb ballast added to it. :confused:

And how would you recommend matching the dampers to springs to swaybars to driving style? Are you recommending having his dampers (which often aren't even matched to eachother off the shelf) on a shock dyno, see the damping rates and match a spring to that? -Combined with some heavy math to figure out the motion ratios, wheel rates, swaybar rates, etc... -combined and matched with his driving style/preferences? And who would be able to do that?

Well, of course one doesn't have to take it to the nine. But everybody drives different and prefers a different setup. Just an example, a few of the other guys I race with (we all run civic hatchbacks, Honda Challenge), we all have VASTLY different suspension setups, yet we all pretty much run the same lap times. ie: I prefer soft(er)/medium spring with large rear bar, vs the other guys prefer super HIGH rear spring vs small rear bar. Some prefer no front bar, while others do (like myself), while others will run a hybrid of the 2.

Those are all relatively simple things to do and can almost setup themselves with some guidance at a track day. Much more worth while and noticable (esp. in lap times) than corner balancing. - again, provided your car isn't completely/wildly out of wack to start with.

-Just being the devil's advocate

I know :p

People view suspension as simply: swaybar X with damper/coilover Y. It's far more complex (like a spider web) where everything relies and is affected by oneanother. You forgot to mention wheel width, offset, tire size, power levels, etc... to the equation.

:wink: Again, it doesn't have to be taken to that extreme to see benefits. And imo, the benefits (esp. to an inexperienced driver) are greater/more noticable than corner balancing.

Slippery-slope? -maybe, but it all ties together and often many people end up years and thousands upon thousands of dollars later with a setup they still aren't happy with and are not quite sure how to get closer to their goals without spending thousands of dollars and years more to get there... Rather than finding the right person/situation and doing it right the first time or setting a game plan of their goals/expenses to reach those goals.

0.02

100% agree :p
 
[Forgive my ignorance. What is corner balancing?[/

They would put your weght in the drivers seat, then make adjustments to make your car level. Once you are out of the car it would then not be level.

Lance


Sort of on the right track there. Corner balancing is when you actually measure the sprung weight at each corner using a very precise scale under each wheel.

By adjusting the suspension/ballasting, you can move the weight around from one corner to the other to achieve the optimum weight distribution between the front and rear wheels, and the cross weight.

For example, here's us corner balancing our Honda Challenge H1 race car:

IMGP1560.JPG

IMGP1561.JPG

IMGP1562.JPG

IMGP1563.JPG

IMGP1564.JPG

IMGP1566.JPG


You'll notice that we had a person (similar weight to me, i'm the driver) sit in the driver seat. You want to make sure that the vehicle's weight is exactly how it would be as if you are driving, when you corner balance.

In our class (H1), minimum weight for the car+driver with the K-series engine swap is 2400lbs. You'll notice that the vehicle post corner balancing is exactly 2425lb with driver, ballast and 2gallons for fuel. In this situation, you generally want to err on the safe side :p Its better to be slightly over weight, than under.

You'll also see, that we were able to get as close to 60/40 front to rear weight distribution and almost perfect 50/50 cross weight.

And a very important note, you must make sure the ground you perform this on is flat. If it is not, you need to shim the scales to make all 4 scales level.

:D
 
With the 42/58 weight difference front to back, I run the shocks full soft in front and set the backs halfway which gives a better balance, less bounce, without being too stiff. Using the same ratio throughout the shock adjustment range you'll find the car works a lot better.
 
Back
Top