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BBSC - pros/cons?

Joined
12 May 2011
Messages
244
Location
Wilton, CT
I've noticed a lot of used BBSC kits up for sale, wondering what people's thoughts were on them.

As I understand, they weren't the most reliable setup when they first came out but that was largely due to a lack of tuning options. Now that we have AEM solutions available, is running this kit simply a matter of a safe tune?

My interest in this kit is for a number of reasons:

- cost-effective
- simple design
- progressive, linear torque curve
- no potential of overboost (vs turbo)
- more predictable throttle response (vs turbo)
- less heatsoak (vs S/C)
- less weight mounted high up (vs S/C)

To my 3rd point regarding the torque curve, I've driven in a few cars with cetrifigual S/Cs (E92 M3, C6 Vette) and I actually really enjoy the progressive build in torque as the RPMs rise. I had a Roots S/C on my last car and while the consistency of a linear power delivery made it easy to drive, it seemed to get a little boring after a while. I've had a few turbo cars as well and I found that it's hard to strike a good balance between linear, transient response down low and a torque curve that doesn't fall off up top.

I don't track my car, but I do a 90/10 mix of backroad/highway driving. The backroads I drive are quite tight and narrow, so throttle response is a much bigger priority than added power. But for the 10% I drive on the highway, I wish the car was a little faster and I'm thinking a BBSC could help with that.

Am I crazy for considering a BBSC over the other tried-and-true FI systems?
 
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I was thinking about all the SC systems recently going on sale too...3 BBSC and 1 CTSC all with the last few months. That is a big spike which doesn't even count the private sales. Everyone is going turbo and building their motors to handle whatever power level they want to reach. You spend a lot upfront for a turbo system but you get to incrementally keep raising the power level and motor build based on your $ and every time you get bored and want more. You just don't have that flexibility with an SC. Also lots of people get a kick out of the way the turbos deliver their power. Too each their own. Definitely turbos offer the greatest flexibility and range of power. However, remember the CTSC is the only system CARB legal for all those Cali folks.

As far as the BBSC kit, it is still to this day the biggest value proposition out there for additional power. Only thing I can think of that rivals it in value would be the Prospeed RDX injector upgrade kit or Downforce type air intake scoop. All simple mods that squeeze out a little bit more from your NA engine.

The BBSC is rock solid now that you can run proper engine management and not the original split second boxes that came with the original kits. Therefore the kit is very "tried and true" now. Plus the parts can all be readily created by any machine shop if something breaks. All the reasons you listed are correct. Plus the BBSC, I think just looks the best in the engine bay as well.

Based on what you seem to be looking for then I think that is the right kit for you. Of coarse lots of people have started exactly where you are now and end up chasing more down the road. That's ok, because if you decide to do that you have a kit that you can sell to the next person that wants a taste. Buy one and have some fun.
 
If you plan on boosting with whatever system, I would just save your money and buy something new, not used.Usually when boosting is done on a "budget" it usually ends up being very expensive down the road. It's like buying used engine internals in my opinion. You just never know the abuse the parts took on, until you bolt them on.
 
While I do typically prefer buying new parts vs used, the BBSC kit is no longer made so I'd have to go with a used kit if I want to utilize a centrifugal S/C.

Can anyone confirm if the BBSC is intercooled? I don't think it is, but wanted to make sure.

I'm not sure how I'd feel about running 8-9psi of boost without some type of way to cool the intake charge (excluding chemical intercooling). I ran water/meth in my last car, would prefer not to use it again. I found it can be hard to find someone to tune a car with water/meth and still maintain OEM-like driveability, particularly at part-throttle.
 
While the BBSC is no longer made, all parts can still be sourced or made easily one way or the other. You just can't go buy stuff off the shelf like all the other systems that are still in production. Just more leg work.

The original kit did have an aftercooler as an option, but those are crazy rare and expensive. Notice all the kits for sale recently, not a single one had the aftercooler as part of the sale. I bet you have to go back several years to find one that went for sale with the aftercooler. Probably because people love those kits so much they are still driving them hard. You can get a custom aftercooler made for it though. But since you said you don't track your car and mostly do spirited driving, I wouldn't be too worried about. Track your AFR and IAT like you would on any other system and couple it with a good tune.

FYI there are lots of was to skin a cat. Another left field option which looks very cool and is similar to a BBSC in spirit is something like this.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showt...fugal-supercharger?highlight=bbsc+aftercooler
 
Had my bbsc x almost 60k miles. I loved it. Only thing that usually breaks are bearings which you can buy over the counter with proper parts number. More rarely, the coupler can break. You can have custom water to air after cooler made, but expect that to run $2 or 3k
 
Mounting considerations mean that it does not have the path for conductive heat from the block like the positive-displacement blowers, so it has that benefit from a heat perspective. But it's a compressor like any other boost-generating device. And because it raises MAP (i.e., generates boost, or is a compressor), the air is at a higher temperature due to adiabatic heating.
 
Had my bbsc x almost 60k miles. I loved it. Only thing that usually breaks are bearings which you can buy over the counter with proper parts number. More rarely, the coupler can break. You can have custom water to air after cooler made, but expect that to run $2 or 3k

Wow, you had a BBSC on your car for 60k miles? That has to be the most number of miles I've ever heard on any FI setup. How much power did you make and what tuning option did you use?

After the BBSC, it looks like you then switched to the SOS twin turbo kit...how did they compare? I guess it'd be an apples to oranges comparison because you also have a built motor. For me, I would be sticking with a stock block for whatever FI setup I choose.
 
I think 440rwhp. Just look through a bunch of my old posts. It is very well-documented on here. I don't recall all the details
 
Has anyone ever installed a BBSC kit on a targa NSX?

I have a LoveFab rear targa brace on my car and it made a significant difference in rigidity compared to the OEM brace...enough so that I wouldn't want to sacrifice it for the sake of a SC kit.

Looking at installed pics of the BBSC, I'm concerned the coupling mechanism that spans across the valve cover and to the throttle body is raised too high to accommodate a thicker rear targa brace. That might actually be a deal breaker for me...
 
Must disclose I am selling one of the BBSC kits currently. Going turbo the correct way is going to cost me 20k+ (sleeved block, rods, pistons, ECU, clutch, turbo kit, engine assembly, tunning, electronics, WP of tranny parts and rebuild of tranny, etc). When I installed the BBSC it cost just under 6k including tuning. I installed it my self in two days and took it to the tuner. Makes 400 whp on a stock motor with stock clutch. Lose zero drivability but have 150hp over stock. I am concerned about losing drivability going turbo but was at the point of wanting either a newer high hp car or stepping up with more hp in the nsx. I have had no issue with the BBSC as far as reliability. If I had any complaints it would be the louder intake noise especially at idle. Similar to a twin carbon clutch. However i love the sound under boost you don't lose the rumble that you do with a typical turbo system.
 
Jhouser, can you speak to if the BBSC kit can fit while keeping a rear targa brace installed?

Basically, does the coupler sit higher than the valve cover? If so, by how much?
 
Wow, thanks for the link!

From the looks of the pictures, it looks like the coupler barely clears the OEM targa brace. That means there is a good chance it might not clear the thicker LoveFab brace I have...frustrating.

Reading up on other threads, it sounds like this isn't just a simple bolt-on kit. Other things like the fuse box and alternator have to be relocated as well...is that correct?
 
Wow, thanks for the link!

From the looks of the pictures, it looks like the coupler barely clears the OEM targa brace. That means there is a good chance it might not clear the thicker LoveFab brace I have...frustrating.

Reading up on other threads, it sounds like this isn't just a simple bolt-on kit. Other things like the fuse box and alternator have to be relocated as well...is that correct?

I remember reading on another thread that the STMPO bar being much thicker did not clear the BBSC. The Lovefab I would send them a message and ask. I am pretty sure the SOS and Comptech ones clear as they are flat as opposed to tubular bracing. But there are several versions of all these bars like SC vs NonSC vs intercooler versions and custom one offs. So kind of hard to say definitively, unless someone can say for a fact... I would look at the bar you have and see if it clears the OEM intake/manifold engine cover since that is the high point. If it does you are probably in good shape. If it has a big notch out or instead of going over the cover and goes around it with a notch then that means it is pretty low and probably won't clear the BBSC. Regardless you can easily sell or maybe trade someone for a different bar.

The kit is fairly straight forward and simple install. It is just uncommon and most installers won't have any experience with it. Yes you need to relocate the fuse box downward, new intake and you replace and relocate the new coolant tank. The alternator does not move...you are thinking about the CT/SOS SC systems.

What would be awesome is if someone could post the install guide. I am looking for an up to date install guide as I have a BBSC kit waiting to be installed on my targa.
 
It is not a simple bolt on but not difficult either. I think the hardest thing is removing the harmonic balancer and putting on the bbsc version or maybe the oil pan for the oil drain. Neither are hard really. You do have to relocate the fuse box and the harness near the front of the engine but not hard at all. Another "difficult" item is the coolant hoses again nothing more than unclamp and removal just can be hard to get old hoses off. I installed it in two days except for the oil pan which I put in a few days later after getting a windage tray and oil drain bung welded in. Had that been ready would have finished on the second day. I just removed the entire kit and it took 8 hours so far and i have another hour or so to finish putting it back to stock. Bigbang for 5000-6000 complete. I am going to exceed 1qk going turbo just for the kit, aem infinity, gauges, clutch and with me doing the install. 5-6k for 400whp is a bargain especially with a stock engine and clutch which the bbsc can max out as far as reliable hp. Every sees turbo kit for 7-10k and forgetd the engine build required and upgraded brakes and clutch. That easily adds an additional 5k. I think barebnes a strong turbo build runs 15-20k and that is with a rather mild engine build eith pistons and hg only. That build would get you 150hp over bbsc for 10-15k more. Then to step up above 550 you should sleeve and go with rods another 3-4k. Had I not gone a full engine build (rods, pistons, sleeved, etc) and plan on exceeding 600whp I would have stuck with the bbsc.

Don't have the numbers in front of me by iirc this is about what I came up with for cost at different levels. Of course drivability suffers which is my biggest concern going high hp. Did it with a 1969 mustan and stopped driving it as it was no longer fun.

400whp BBSC 6K (stock engine stock clutch, aem fic, basic gauges)
550whp BBSC 13k (Forged pistons, HG, clutch aem ecu basic gauges)
550 whp Turbo 15-20k (Forged pistons, HG, clutch, aem ecu, basic gauges)
650 whp turbo 20-25k (sleeved, pistons, rods, aem Infinity, clutch, guageart gauges, etc)
 
I remember reading on another thread that the STMPO bar being much thicker did not clear the BBSC. The Lovefab I would send them a message and ask. I am pretty sure the SOS and Comptech ones clear as they are flat as opposed to tubular bracing. But there are several versions of all these bars like SC vs NonSC vs intercooler versions and custom one offs. So kind of hard to say definitively, unless someone can say for a fact... I would look at the bar you have and see if it clears the OEM intake/manifold engine cover since that is the high point. If it does you are probably in good shape. If it has a big notch out or instead of going over the cover and goes around it with a notch then that means it is pretty low and probably won't clear the BBSC. Regardless you can easily sell or maybe trade someone for a different bar.

The kit is fairly straight forward and simple install. It is just uncommon and most installers won't have any experience with it. Yes you need to relocate the fuse box downward, new intake and you replace and relocate the new coolant tank. The alternator does not move...you are thinking about the CT/SOS SC systems.

What would be awesome is if someone could post the install guide. I am looking for an up to date install guide as I have a BBSC kit waiting to be installed on my targa.

My LoveFab brace is definitely notched to clear the valve cover, so I'm starting to doubt the coupler would clear. To be honest, I noticed such a large improvement in the stiffness after adding the brace that I am not willing to give it up. As much as I would love more power, I value handling much more based on how I drive the car. It sounds like I may have to stick to the turbo options out there.
 
Had my bbsc x almost 60k miles. I loved it. Only thing that usually breaks are bearings which you can buy over the counter with proper parts number. More rarely, the coupler can break. You can have custom water to air after cooler made, but expect that to run $2 or 3k
What are the symptoms of the bearings breaking? My BBSC has been running fine except for the rattle at idle which I am assuming is normal. Sounds like the clutch is trying to grab as jhouser has mentioned. The driveability is very good and the linear torque curve makes things easy for noobs like me. Only thing thing it is lacking is the low end torque, which some would say is proper if you are on stock engine components. I have only been on this setup at 5k miles, but it has seen 15k miles before I bought the car.
 
Yeah, what jhauser said. The bearings will make noise. Onestepnsx was selling some very high end replacement bearings a while ago. And coupler. They do break. Fyi. Tho the bearings are over the counter.
 
How come nobody here has commented on how much of a pain in the ass it is to reach your engine oil cap and reroute your fuse box running this kit? Or how so many dozens of motors blew up running these kits? Just seems odd that nobody talks about the cons? Especially buying bearings and spider gears, I heard those run about 500 bucks?
 
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My bbsc was a lot more fun to drive than my ctsc, but fuel management wasn't good back then.:(
 
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