Bil's vs. KW

[Floyd]

Hi All,
I've read many post and I'm still torn. While I really want to get a set of the KW coilovers that everybody seems to love, I feel like a fresh set of Bilstien's is all I really need.

I have a 2000 that I DD. I enjoy the occasional empty on/off ramp and that about it. I'd love to track, never seem to have enough time. It would be nice to be able to corner balance the car, but if I go Bil's that leaves me with a nice chunk of change for other bits. Even if/when I track it, I don't think I'll be adjusting anything. Going crazy...

 

[L_RAO]

I have had Bilsteins on the following previous cars:

1988 5.0L Mustang
1991 240 (they were JDM Bilsteins with kg/mm springs - super rare & nice)
1993 Toyota T100
1989 CRX Si

And I have never needed "more" than that.

I am going to be putting on Bilsteins on my 1991 soon. I'll give u some feedback on those as well.

 

[Ric]

Hi All,
I've read many post and I'm still torn. While I really want to get a set of the KW coilovers that everybody seems to love, I feel like a fresh set of Bilstien's is all I really need.
..

What you want and what you need are two different things. We all want what we don't need.:wink:

 

[stevenlee]

I've had 4 different brands of shocks on my car looking for the perfect set up.
I ended up with the KW's. They provide great performance plus height adjustment and performance adjustability. You can set your car to YOUR perfect height and ride height preferences.

Although you may not "need" better shocks, it's a lot like electric windows and air conditioning in your car. Once you experience them, you won't want to give them up.

In my opinion, the KW's make the car more enjoyable to drive.... and I just drove almost 7,000 miles in the past few weeks to go to NSXPO.

 

[02#154]

I have the KW V3 on my car and I'm a huge fan of them. But because it sounds like you aren't looking for more performance, just a little bit of a lower ride height, I'm going to go against the grain here and recommend the Bilsteins for you and your needs. The KWs will absolutely not disappoint but I think it's more than you will be able to truly appreciate.

You've definitely done a great job so far in narrowing it down to the two options you listed and you won't be dissatisfied with either one. Might as well save a little money.

J

 

[sca037]

We currently have Bilsteins on one NSX and KWV3's on the other.

For your stated use, the Bilsteins (especially with your stock springs set to the lower perch) will work great for you.
For the money, you really can't go wrong with them.

Brian

 

[RYU]

Try the Bils first imho. FWIW I loved them when my car was setup for normal to aggressive street driving. The damping on the Bilsteins are superb. I tried them with stock springs, then with Teins, then I added a Type R sway bar. It wasn't until I really started driving the car hard I wanted more adjustability and after much lamenting I then went with a set of DG-5 coilovers. I considered everything from BC Coilovers, to Teins, HKS, and KW V3s.

It seems most here are happy with staying with Bils and stock springs on the lower perch with some upgrading to a slightly stiffer swaybar. How hard do you drive the car? Do you need the adjustability?

I honestly feel a good portion of people who buy good coilovers just set-it and forget-it. Which is kind of a shame but that's just me talking...

 

[TrustJDM]

For your purpose and intentions along with the possibility of getting more parts with the money saved, the Bilsteins would definitely be the better buy. I am a huge fan of the KW's and would option for them if budget was not a concern. Get some sways & chassis stiffening by STMPO and it will feel like money well spent.

 

[BATMANs]

KWs will grow with you if you taste for performance grows and/or if the power of your NSX grows.

personally i would rather do Koni yellows over the Bilsteins since they can be adjusted (and KW internals and key engineers are purported to have their roots from Koni)....

 

[Floyd]

Thanks for all the feedback.
Thanks for all of the feedback. I know this topic comes up more than most.

I will say I would likely set it and forget it. I have also considered the type S suspension for this reason. But I figure if I'm going to spend that much...get the KW's.

I should have noted that lowering is not my purpose here. Increased performance is. I actually would like a very mild 1/2" drop. I would be setting the KW's as tall as possible. I would be getting a custom groove on the Bil's. I tried some springs on the 95 I had that was over an inch drop and to be honest it seemed to hurt performance due to the increased camper (adjusted to take as much out as possible). This was on low-mid speed stuff. I imagine in the high speed corners the tire would lean over enough to put all of the rubber back on the ground. I will note that either will be better than the stock dampers that are coming up on 120k.

I fully intend to do the Type R bars as well.

 

[e.pie]

Hi All,
I've read many post and I'm still torn. While I really want to get a set of the KW coilovers that everybody seems to love, I feel like a fresh set of Bilstien's is all I really need.

I have a 2000 that I DD. I enjoy the occasional empty on/off ramp and that about it. I'd love to track, never seem to have enough time. It would be nice to be able to corner balance the car, but if I go Bil's that leaves me with a nice chunk of change for other bits. Even if/when I track it, I don't think I'll be adjusting anything. Going crazy...

For your needs I'd just go with the Bilsteins, KWs would be overkill.


That or the Konis with Type-S/Zanardi springs is a really solid budget "set it and forget it" suspension setup, my friend has that in his NSX and it is fantastic. Would easily be my second choice after the NSX-R suspension.

 

[BATMANs]

koni yellow should be able to do the 1/2" drop since u can select various perches....

 

[RYU]

Thanks for all the feedback.
Thanks for all of the feedback. I know this topic comes up more than most.

I will say I would likely set it and forget it. I have also considered the type S suspension for this reason. But I figure if I'm going to spend that much...get the KW's.

I should have noted that lowering is not my purpose here. Increased performance is. I actually would like a very mild 1/2" drop. I would be setting the KW's as tall as possible. I would be getting a custom groove on the Bil's. I tried some springs on the 95 I had that was over an inch drop and to be honest it seemed to hurt performance due to the increased camper (adjusted to take as much out as possible). This was on low-mid speed stuff. I imagine in the high speed corners the tire would lean over enough to put all of the rubber back on the ground. I will note that either will be better than the stock dampers that are coming up on 120k.

I fully intend to do the Type R bars as well.

Perhaps you can try stiffer lowering springs with the Bils at stock height. I tried this combo on the track and minus a little bit of body lean it was fun fun fun. Not sure if you care about weight, prob not, but the Bils do weight a bit more than most coilovers.

BATMANs presents some interesting options as well. I have no experience with Konis on my NSX though. They did blow out on my CLK back in 2003'ish after 30k miles but I loved them on my S2k. Probably will do real well on the NSX.

 

[BATMANs]

.....BATMANs presents some interesting options as well. I have no experience with Konis on my NSX though. They did blow out on my CLK back in 2003'ish after 30k miles but I loved them on my S2k. Probably will do real well on the NSX.

I've had/have 3 vehicles with Konis. Only one shock ever blew out after 10 years and was covered by their lifetime warranty. koni was really nice about getting the replacement out to me first to minimize down time.

I just wish http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/shocks/shocks_main.shtml was an option for the NSX.

Cheaper and automatically adjust for smooth and choppy road conditions.

that is one of the crappy things about a niche of a niche of a niche market.

 

[02#154]

I should have noted that lowering is not my purpose here. Increased performance is. I actually would like a very mild 1/2" drop.

I interpreted your original statement of "I enjoy the occasional empty on/off ramp and that's about it" and the fact that you daily drive the car as meaning your compromise priorities were for comfort and height over performance.

With further clarification from you, I would have to change my recommendation to the KWs. They offer a higher performance threshold than the Bilsteins. As BATMANs stated, they can grow with you and your car's performance and can be adjusted to you liking, driving style, and conditions.

J

 

[02#154]

I honestly feel a good portion of people who buy good coilovers just set-it and forget-it. Which is kind of a shame but that's just me talking...

Having an adjustable suspension doesn't (and in my opinion, shouldn't) mean that it is constantly adjusted and tinkered with. Like an ultra configureable and adjustable stand-alone ECU, the adjustability isn't for day-to-day adjustability. One finds the proper tune, and once satisfied... yeah, it's kinda forgotten until some new parameter is introduced. For the topic of suspensions, if it's street driven, you mess with it until you find your own personal balance of characteristics and when you're happy with it that's it. I mean if you're happy with it, why continue to tinker? If you find yourself at the track, note your street settings, and start tuning for that track, your racing style and track conditions. And once the right setup's found, you just enjoy it until it's time to drive home at which point you put it back to the street settings.

J

 

[RYU]

Having an adjustable suspension doesn't (and in my opinion, shouldn't) mean that it is constantly adjusted and tinkered with. Like an ultra configureable and adjustable stand-alone ECU, the adjustability isn't for day-to-day adjustability. One finds the proper tune, and once satisfied... yeah, it's kinda forgotten until some new parameter is introduced. For the topic of suspensions, if it's street driven, you mess with it until you find your own personal balance of characteristics and when you're happy with it that's it. I mean if you're happy with it, why continue to tinker? If you find yourself at the track, note your street settings, and start tuning for that track, your racing style and track conditions. And once the right setup's found, you just enjoy it until it's time to drive home at which point you put it back to the street settings.

J

I can certainly appreciate that viewpoint and I agree if you drive in one condition (i.e. street) then it's set it and forget it. I guess what I meant to convey was I wish people with real nice coilover setups drove their cars in varying conditions more while also making full use of the adjustment ranges so they can also share their experiences with the rest of us. As BATMANs said, we're a real small niche community. Not everyone can be professional race car drivers where trying out different setups may come easier. For me to try a different setup I either have to find a friend of spend $$$ on something i'm not even sure about. We tend to only hear from a handful of people and then it sometimes becomes gospel. After all, most people are more inclined to think what they bought is the best and works awesome. Not many are willing to say, what I bought is great here and isn't so great there for so and so reasons.

 

[02#154]

Unless you have experience with suspensions and how different things will affect the characteristics of the car, I usually recommend against putting together your own home brew of springs and shocks. Unless one really understands the concepts and ramifications of: compression and rebound (not just what they mean, but how each changes the feel of the car), ride height, spring lengths, spring pre-tension, spring rates… well, one may find themselves spending a lot of time just finding the right parts, constantly changing out springs. An eight inch spring with a 350lb/inch spring rate will feel different than a six inch spring with the same rate, even when the perches are moved to place the car at the same ride height, for example.

You can get advice, but you won't really understand what all the things mean in the real world to your seat of the pants until you can try different spring rates, lengths, valving, and maybe even helper or tender springs.

KW and other sets sold as a system did the experimenting for the customer and most agree that the compromises that KW made are good ones.

J

 

[RYU]

It seems to be the usual suspects on this thread so i'll defer to say we've tackled this argument before and leave it at that

 

[Track Addict]

From what you posted on the usage of your NSX I wouldn't recommend a coilover setup that is just money that you'll never see the benefit from. I'd recommend the Bilsteins with a bit stiffer spring if you wanted a little less roll. The Bilsteins offer a big improvement over the stock equipment (especially if yours is a higher mileage car) without breaking the bank.

Unless you're going to get into tracking the car and know HOW to set up your suspension to maximize potential I think your time/money will be better spent on the Bils with good springs and lots of seat time.


Good luck whichever route you decide to go.

 

[BATMANs]

......... As BATMANs said, we're a real small niche community.......

... of a niche of a niche.

Meaning:

1. sports cars (niche 1)
2. NSX (niche 2)
3. people that modify their NSX (niche 3)

i might even add people that modify their NSX suspension as the 4th, but we get the idea....

 

[BATMANs]

OP, I'm going to bet that most people, like urself will be less likely to experience buyers remorse with starting with a KW V3 than starting with the Billsteins:

1. catching the modification bug/fever
2. going to NSX meets and being the tallest there where the other NSXs are asking your how the weather is up there
3. getting after market wheels and your car still looks average
4. being passed up on the track by inferior drivers with KWv3

 

[e.pie]

From what you posted on the usage of your NSX I wouldn't recommend a coilover setup that is just money that you'll never see the benefit from. I'd recommend the Bilsteins with a bit stiffer spring if you wanted a little less roll. The Bilsteins offer a big improvement over the stock equipment (especially if yours is a higher mileage car) without breaking the bank.

Unless you're going to get into tracking the car and know HOW to set up your suspension to maximize potential I think your time/money will be better spent on the Bils with good springs and lots of seat time.


Good luck whichever route you decide to go.

Exactly this, it seems a lot of people on forums seem to get caught up in needing the shiniest most expensive thing and then end up with something really expensive that they don't really need or know how to set up properly, coil-overs being one of those things. Now don't get me wrong KWs are immensely good if you have the knowledge, means, and ability to set them up properly, as well as a use for getting every last bit of performance out of the car. But from what the thread starter has stated I don't think you'll see any real benefit from going to coil-overs vs. something more stock-esque, other than being able to brag about the shiny new (expensive!) part that you have.

 

[e.pie]

OP, I'm going to bet that most people, like urself will be less likely to experience buyers remorse with starting with a KW V3 than starting with the Billsteins:

1. catching the modification bug/fever
2. going to NSX meets and being the tallest there where the other NSXs are asking your how the weather is up there
3. getting after market wheels and your car still looks average
4. being passed up on the track by inferior drivers with KWv3

Suspension won't make that much of a difference at an amateur level, especially with a car that's as well sorted out of the box as the NSX. If we were talking about Civics or something I'd be more inclined to agree though.

 

[Floyd]

Good stuff guys,

I may try Bat's suggestion on the Bil's with a Zanardi spring. I didn't go with Koni because I've heard rattle noise horror stories...true?

Several of you have hit the nail on the head. I work in the world of bicycles and know all to well about ppl buying stuff they don't need. I also know that setting up suspension and getting it wrong can make the most expensive setup handle like poo.

Really leaning towards the cheaper option hear. If I ever do get to go FI will the bil's really be that incapable of handling it?

Thanks again everyone. I know this subject is constantly covered.