I would like to install a boost gauge for my BBSC and am seeking suggestions from anyone who knows of a gauge designed for lower boost levels. As I'm running around 6psi, I really don't want a gauge that goes up to 2bar. Something where I can actually see it move and read 1psi differences while driving would be nice. I'm probably going to put it on the A pillar along with a second gauge. Maybe oil temp? Any other thoughts as to what second gauge would be most useful? TIA!
Boost Gauge Suggestions?
- Thread starter TampaBayNSX-R
- Start date
I have the in dash Gruppe M boost gauge CT sells on their web site. It replaces the OEM voltmeter and looks factory installed. Looks great but may not be sensitive enough for your needs.
BTW TampaBay NSX, I'm in your neck of the woods next week w/my family visiting the in-laws. Any suggestions for restaurents?
How about the Autometer 3376 or 4376?
They go up to 15 psi. These models are electric and come with a sending unit.
Check them out on the Autometer site...
http://www.autometer.com
-Jim
------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
They go up to 15 psi. These models are electric and come with a sending unit.
Check them out on the Autometer site...
http://www.autometer.com
-Jim
------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
DO NOT BUY Autometer...
I have one in my car and it is at least 1-2 psi's off!
I talked to my friend who owns a tuner shop and one of his customer's with a WRX also had a autometer guage, then went to Blitz. (using another HKS guage to make sure that the Blitz was accurate...) The Autometer was 4 psi's off!!!
but if you want one...I'll sell you mine.
Allen
I have one in my car and it is at least 1-2 psi's off!
I talked to my friend who owns a tuner shop and one of his customer's with a WRX also had a autometer guage, then went to Blitz. (using another HKS guage to make sure that the Blitz was accurate...) The Autometer was 4 psi's off!!!
but if you want one...I'll sell you mine.
Allen
Thanks for the feedback guys. So, if I don't want to go with an Autometer, you're recommending the Blitz or HKS for better accuracy?
As for places to eat in TampaBay, I can give you a few ideas. If you're in St. Petersburg I'd try Red Mesa for EXCELLENT seafood and southwestern cuisine. The Colombia restaurant on the St. Pete pier offers Spanish cuisine, good seafood and nice views of TampaBay. Also, try Baywalk in downtown St. Pete for a collection of restaurants, retail boutiques and clubs. Dan Marino's Town Tavern is sure to please. Out towards the beaches you can try the Salt Rock Grill on North Redington Beach for excellent food and a trendy atmosphere. Feel free to private me if you have any other questions...I'll be happy to help out. BTW, I've always liked the pic in your avatar...is that your car?
[This message has been edited by TampaBayNSX-R (edited 11 August 2002).]
[This message has been edited by TampaBayNSX-R (edited 11 August 2002).]
As for places to eat in TampaBay, I can give you a few ideas. If you're in St. Petersburg I'd try Red Mesa for EXCELLENT seafood and southwestern cuisine. The Colombia restaurant on the St. Pete pier offers Spanish cuisine, good seafood and nice views of TampaBay. Also, try Baywalk in downtown St. Pete for a collection of restaurants, retail boutiques and clubs. Dan Marino's Town Tavern is sure to please. Out towards the beaches you can try the Salt Rock Grill on North Redington Beach for excellent food and a trendy atmosphere. Feel free to private me if you have any other questions...I'll be happy to help out. BTW, I've always liked the pic in your avatar...is that your car?
[This message has been edited by TampaBayNSX-R (edited 11 August 2002).]
[This message has been edited by TampaBayNSX-R (edited 11 August 2002).]
It WILL be by the Spring. Same color but I wanted to focus on "function" aka performance for the Summer. Form takes a backseat till the 1st snowfall. Thanks for the ideas on the eateries!
It is unfortunate that X-TNSIV had a bad experience with Autometer gauges, however, I believe that overall they have a very good reputation. They have some new electric boost gauges with sending units as noted by Jimbo. Persoanlly, I am going to go with the 4376 for boost/vac and the 4363 for fuel pressure. Unlike previous versions of the boost gauges, you will not have to snake a line into the mounting location - making sure you avoid crimps, etc.
The fuel pressure gauge (also electric for obvious reasons) is a good gauge to have in a boosted car especially if you are considering to modify fuel pressure either by using an FMU or fuel pump voltage mods.
The fuel pressure gauge (also electric for obvious reasons) is a good gauge to have in a boosted car especially if you are considering to modify fuel pressure either by using an FMU or fuel pump voltage mods.
Do they make a lower range one for people running less than 10 psi? That would be a big plus for low boost applications.
Hello. Check out a link from my website (Lo-Tek Engineering @ www.gaugepods.com) to WESTACH. They can make any psi Manifold Pressure gauge. I was looking into this a while back. They said they could make an 8psi gauge. It was a bit pricey - about $200. Maybe would could put together a group buy?
[This message has been edited by lsimons (edited 14 August 2002).]
[This message has been edited by lsimons (edited 14 August 2002).]
Yellow Rose
Suspended
- Joined
- 22 November 2001
- Messages
- 2,256
X-TNSIV, how did you determine your Autometer gauge was off, or asked another way, what lead you to believe the reading was not correct? I'm not saying Autometer is perfect; however, as the leading gauge manufacturer in the racing arena, I would think that any bugs would've been worked out by now. How long ago did you experience the anomalous readings?
Anyhow......if an NSXer is faced with room for only two extra gauges, in addition to the boost gauge, what would the audience prefer as the second gauge? Your choices are (a) air-fuel mixture (b) fuel pressure (c) engine oil temperature.
Air Fuel Mixture
Instead of an LED type gauge that shows lean-rich, I would rather have an analog type gauge with a needle pointing to a number. Autometer makes LED types but who makes analog types? After the initial tuning parameters of a supercharger are established, what diagnostic benefit does this gauge offer? Doesn't the A-F remain relatively constant (over the life of the car not the RPM range), not requiring anything to be adjusted? If something needs adjusting, what is it that gets tweaked, or is it not that simple?
Fuel Pressure
The fuel pump delivers only so much pressure. Except for boosted engines, this should be something that is constant. If you have the proper A-F mixture, then by definition there is enough fuel. The additional fuel could not get into the engine without the required fuel pump delivery pressure, so this gauge is somewhat redundant vs an A-F gauge, right? Of the two, I would think this is less important.
Engine Oil Temperature
I will be installing an external oil cooler with a thermostatically controlled fan. Other than knowing what the temperature is of the oil going back to the engine, what true benefit does this gauge provide? Unlike the water temperature gauge going up that is indicative of water pump failure or radiator air flow blockage, if the oil temp rises there is nothing else that can be done, right? In other words, the oil temperature will be what it will be.
Anyhow......if an NSXer is faced with room for only two extra gauges, in addition to the boost gauge, what would the audience prefer as the second gauge? Your choices are (a) air-fuel mixture (b) fuel pressure (c) engine oil temperature.
Air Fuel Mixture
Instead of an LED type gauge that shows lean-rich, I would rather have an analog type gauge with a needle pointing to a number. Autometer makes LED types but who makes analog types? After the initial tuning parameters of a supercharger are established, what diagnostic benefit does this gauge offer? Doesn't the A-F remain relatively constant (over the life of the car not the RPM range), not requiring anything to be adjusted? If something needs adjusting, what is it that gets tweaked, or is it not that simple?
Fuel Pressure
The fuel pump delivers only so much pressure. Except for boosted engines, this should be something that is constant. If you have the proper A-F mixture, then by definition there is enough fuel. The additional fuel could not get into the engine without the required fuel pump delivery pressure, so this gauge is somewhat redundant vs an A-F gauge, right? Of the two, I would think this is less important.
Engine Oil Temperature
I will be installing an external oil cooler with a thermostatically controlled fan. Other than knowing what the temperature is of the oil going back to the engine, what true benefit does this gauge provide? Unlike the water temperature gauge going up that is indicative of water pump failure or radiator air flow blockage, if the oil temp rises there is nothing else that can be done, right? In other words, the oil temperature will be what it will be.
A few thoughts:
Air Fuel Mixture
This can change for a variety of reasons such dirty injectors, poor spark, weak fuel pump or clogged filter. With a non-boosted engine those are no big deal and would produce a loss of power, but of course under boost the result can be devastating if you don’t catch it quickly enough. You can also observe changes due to climatic variations. You may not tune for these if they’re small, or you may have a couple sets of maps for above and below say 50 F.
Fuel Pressure
I would agree that this is less important than the AF meter, and can always be tapped in at the to of the filter for spot-checking if symptoms warrant.
Engine Oil Temperature
Oil pressure will be what it will be too, but I’d want to know if it falls suddenly.
Although the boost gauge is the most fun, it really isn’t all that important to have right in your face either and can be placed somewhere else for occasional reference.
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 26 August 2002).]
I have the greddy rebic IV in my car and it is registering ~5-6 psi and the most I ever see out of the guage is 4psi. I "assume" that since the turbos are controlled by springs (or so I was told) that boost should remain constant. The greddy Rebic IV registers the boost using an electronic sensor, sending a pulse to the guage...versus the autometer (mechanical)has a hard line going all the way up to the front of the car.
Allen
Engine oil temp is as important as water for track use car, if not more important. This is where you want to know for sure that it doesn't go to the roof.
In races this translate to slow down and preserve the car.
[This message has been edited by Andrie Hartanto (edited 26 August 2002).]
In races this translate to slow down and preserve the car.
[This message has been edited by Andrie Hartanto (edited 26 August 2002).]
All,
Air Fuel Meter:
I've tried to say it here a few times, but the inexpensive (<$500) a/f gauges are only very "gross" measuring devices. They can alert you to a big, potentially catostrophic problem... maybe. They CANNOT be used for tuning. They CANNOT detect problems that can likely kill your engine over time. It is therefore, wasted real estate to install one... unless you think the background color goes good with the neon lights underneath the car. Sorry, but the misconception of the capability of these gauges is really alarming.
Fuel Pressure:
Many (most?)approaches to tuning FI cars utilize some kind of fuel pressure alteration. To insure that these devices are working normally, a FP gauge can be your best friend. Even if your particular fuel management solution does not alter FP, your car is definitely tuned with an assumed FP. If the FP changes due to a mechanical or electrical failure (failing fuel pump, clogged fuel filter, etc.) the FP can alert you.
My vote is a Boost/Vac + FP gauges. I got one of Dali's ivory replacement a-pillars with the pods and I ordered the Autometer 4376 and 4363 today from summit racing.
Hopefully, I'll get them finished during the long weekend. Anyone know what I can use to tap ("T") the FP at the pump?
Air Fuel Meter:
I've tried to say it here a few times, but the inexpensive (<$500) a/f gauges are only very "gross" measuring devices. They can alert you to a big, potentially catostrophic problem... maybe. They CANNOT be used for tuning. They CANNOT detect problems that can likely kill your engine over time. It is therefore, wasted real estate to install one... unless you think the background color goes good with the neon lights underneath the car. Sorry, but the misconception of the capability of these gauges is really alarming.
Fuel Pressure:
Many (most?)approaches to tuning FI cars utilize some kind of fuel pressure alteration. To insure that these devices are working normally, a FP gauge can be your best friend. Even if your particular fuel management solution does not alter FP, your car is definitely tuned with an assumed FP. If the FP changes due to a mechanical or electrical failure (failing fuel pump, clogged fuel filter, etc.) the FP can alert you.
My vote is a Boost/Vac + FP gauges. I got one of Dali's ivory replacement a-pillars with the pods and I ordered the Autometer 4376 and 4363 today from summit racing.
Hopefully, I'll get them finished during the long weekend. Anyone know what I can use to tap ("T") the FP at the pump?
kpond, no one said a cheap AF meter. With all the talk on this subject I'm assuming a wide-band is a given. A fuel pressure gauge would be a distant third since it reflects just one factor related to the all important fuel mixture, and it is easy to imagine someone not noticing a small yet significant decrease in pressure. It’s a simple matter to connect one temporarily at any time is desired.
As for oil temp, I agree that it is important in a race car and even a serious track car so I rate it second. However, it was already stated that he is adding an oil cooler, and I'm sure there is plenty of knowledge about how hard the NSX can be run on a hot day without excessive oil temp. Still, with just two spaces I would do as mentioned before and skip the boost gauge or place it elsewhere, and that would leave room for the oil temp. If the whole point is to mount a boost gauge then there is really only one spot open so I would either find room elsewhere for an oil temp or leave it out. In all likelihood I would have one that could be mounted temporarily on a hot track day and then decide whether a permanent spot is even justified.
As for oil temp, I agree that it is important in a race car and even a serious track car so I rate it second. However, it was already stated that he is adding an oil cooler, and I'm sure there is plenty of knowledge about how hard the NSX can be run on a hot day without excessive oil temp. Still, with just two spaces I would do as mentioned before and skip the boost gauge or place it elsewhere, and that would leave room for the oil temp. If the whole point is to mount a boost gauge then there is really only one spot open so I would either find room elsewhere for an oil temp or leave it out. In all likelihood I would have one that could be mounted temporarily on a hot track day and then decide whether a permanent spot is even justified.
Depending on how modded the car is...for a street car, I would have no other gauges then fuel pressure and oil pressure. (i have an electronic boost controller that records peak boost) In my opinion absolutly the 2 most important gauges to look at. If you must have a boost gauge make sure you get a peak/hold gauge.
------------------
jack of all trades, master of some.
sjs,
Perhaps YOU had assumed a wideband was the only alternative for an a/f gauge... but this is definitely NOT the context of the thread as written here. The gentleman posting the original question had asked about conventional gauges - with the understanding that there's only room for two... the question was which two.
The thread then discussed the viability of of one of the gauges being a/f... and one of an analog type over the more common LED.
Widebands are not available in a "conventional" form factor, nor are they available in an LED or analog format. From this, the conclusion is that we are discussing the more common a/f gauges.
Regarding your comment about the ease of installing a FP gauge - maybe you can give me some tips since I want to install one this weekend. Do you know of a special adapter, for example, that works in conjunction with the banjo fittings?
Perhaps YOU had assumed a wideband was the only alternative for an a/f gauge... but this is definitely NOT the context of the thread as written here. The gentleman posting the original question had asked about conventional gauges - with the understanding that there's only room for two... the question was which two.
The thread then discussed the viability of of one of the gauges being a/f... and one of an analog type over the more common LED.
Widebands are not available in a "conventional" form factor, nor are they available in an LED or analog format. From this, the conclusion is that we are discussing the more common a/f gauges.
Regarding your comment about the ease of installing a FP gauge - maybe you can give me some tips since I want to install one this weekend. Do you know of a special adapter, for example, that works in conjunction with the banjo fittings?
I would probably go with the Greddy. Most of the highest quality guages (Apex-i, Blitz, Greddy) are made in Japan and are in Metric units(BAR). I don't think it's gonna be easy getting a high quality peak/hold gauge that goes only up to ~10psi. Off the top the only gauge I know of in PSI is the autometer...and that's not peak hold.
Greddy's new twin pressure gauge is pretty nice..http://www.greddy.com/products/electronics_frame.htm
EDIT: Defi makes some sick gauges in US units...but I heard they are hard to get cause of limited production. A central control unit for the gauges and the ability to daisy chain them all off it. http://www.spipowerexcel.com/defi_gauges.htm
[This message has been edited by true (edited 27 August 2002).]
There's a few things people do..most just cut the fuel line going to the rail and run a brass T inline. A 1/8" brass T and 2 1/8" hose barbs on the ends and you're all set. Others like to rethread the fuel filter bolt and basically screw the sender right into the top of the filter. I can take pictures of the brass T setup if you're interested...it's really simple. There is no trick connecter that connects the banjo bolt to the sender....you got to run it inline before that.
------------------
jack of all trades, master of some.
true,
I am trying to find a way to do it without cutting into a fuel line. I would prefer to do it at the banjo fitting - I think some have done it there although I don't know the parts required.
The new Autometer electric boost gauge does have a peak recall capability as well as a warning LED.
I am trying to find a way to do it without cutting into a fuel line. I would prefer to do it at the banjo fitting - I think some have done it there although I don't know the parts required.
The new Autometer electric boost gauge does have a peak recall capability as well as a warning LED.
You can do it without cutting the line..i like the fuel filter pressure bleed retap..nice and clean. I'll go through my earls fitting catlog tonight see if theres something that would allow you to use the banjo fitting. Stand corrected on autometer making a peak/hold boost gauge.
If the original question was not assuming a wide-band then I retract my statements and agree with kpond. However, I believe there are some LED types using a 5-wire wide-band unit on the market now and that was the basis of my recommendation. As I think we all agree, it is the single most important thing to monitor closely with forced induction. I'll dig for those when I have time unless someone already knows of some.
For a temporary check of FP, no need to cut lines. As noted by me above and by true as well, you can remove the bleed fitting from the top of the fuel filter. It is a standard thread for which any generic shop FP gauge will have a fitting. This is the recommended spot to tap in per the NSX shop manual. You should be able to find a good gauge with a selection of fittings locally for ~$40.
In terms of a permanent spot in my gauge cluster, I still don't think FP is a priority, but on a boosted engine it is at least of some value.
For a temporary check of FP, no need to cut lines. As noted by me above and by true as well, you can remove the bleed fitting from the top of the fuel filter. It is a standard thread for which any generic shop FP gauge will have a fitting. This is the recommended spot to tap in per the NSX shop manual. You should be able to find a good gauge with a selection of fittings locally for ~$40.
In terms of a permanent spot in my gauge cluster, I still don't think FP is a priority, but on a boosted engine it is at least of some value.
Give MB a call. For measuring fuel pressure, he taps into the outlet of the fuel filter. I believe that there is already a fitting there that can be removed for this exact purpose (the NSX manual might even mention what is needed).
