Brembo Brakes Redux

[Auraraptor]

We are going on 20 years now with complaints of the Brembo Lotus (328x28 / 36-40 piston) brake balance.

I had two thoughts I wanted to throw out there.

Option 1: Spoon monoblocks using a RB larger front disk. I have seen different numbers reported for the spoon monoblock piston sizes, but several report they are close to the F40 caliper piston size. Can anyone confirm? This effectively would re-create the F40/lotus combo without need for custom disks. Only drawback I can see is need for custom brackets and pad selection is coupled to s2k pad availability. I also don’t know what caliper weight is for the Spoon monoblock or the RB disks (ie is the combined weight any lighter than the brembo Lotus setup?)

Option 2:
Brembo offered a special order monoblock rear setup using the ‘P’ caliper family: a 345x28 32-32 piston setup. My back of napkin math suggests using this rear instead of the standard lotus 328x28 rear with the standard brembo front should give a brake bias of mid 50s, all while keeping a nice pedal feel.

I would appreciate thoughts or if these have been discussed in the past. If they were discussed before, I apologize as I only causally visit since selling my old NA2

 

[RYU]

I've gone down this rabbit hole more times than I care to admit. I've built 2 custom setups and mixed and matched 3 over the counter setups.

At the end of the day, if you're running the 50/50 Lotus setup I suggest running an aggressive friction mu pads on the front and less aggressive on the rear. That's the easiest route by far. You just need to manage the different heat tolerances between front and rear pads but totally doable IMO.

FWIW i've now settled on Stoptech Front and OEM rear calipers on the RF Yamamoto 330mm oversized rear discs. This gives me approximately 60% bias and it's been acceptable and I have the luxury of the OEM e-brake setup which is by far my biggest complaint out of ALL the 4 corner BBK kits. I've tried 3 types of aftermarket e-brakes and all aren't not as good as stock.

 

[Matt'sNSX]

Probably should have asked this before I placed my order, but does anyone have any experience with the AP Racing set-up offered through SakeBomb garage? I initially was going to go with a front and rear set-up from Brembo via the Tire Rack as I could get employee pricing (I work for Porsche Delaware) but I was told that Brembo discontinued their NSX set-up...

Edit: A big reason I wanted Brembo but ultimately went with the SakeBomb garage kit is because I don't want to give up the parking brake...

 

[OE2]

not through sakebomb but the essex racing ap racing kits are solid. they have a few different calipers that can make pad swaps easy or a pita.

 

[Honcho]

A long, long time ago the best BBK setup was the Tarox kit- it was set up specifically for the NSX brake balance. That was 20 years ago, though. However, I believe MITA might be resurrecting them. Might want to reach out to Marc.

 

[docjohn]

SOS used to sell an AP kit, do they still?

Brembo has a few caliper sizes that will work just depends on having the vendor make or source the proper mounting bracket for the disk size. I have heard good things about the stoptech kit, but you have to be watchful of wheel clearance..

 

[MotorMouth93]

Didn't Stoptech discontinue their kit for NSX?

The only kit sold by SoS now is Brembo.

The Porsche 996 Brembos are a good fit for the NSX on the front at least (40 and 36mm pistons like stock) they are just very wide and won't fit many wheels.

 

[eff10mm]

I spoke with the Tarox guys at SEMA this year. They still produce the NSX brakes. My issues is that the rears still loose the parking brake. I think they would be prime for a group purchase.

 

[RYU]

Just my $0.02.

Stoptech 4 corner BBK has pretty good bias at 63%. I'd probably prefer anywhere in the 55-60% myself. It also has the biggest rotor package that can fit in a 17/17 wheel setup which arguably is a good place to be to keep your options open and have the most amount of stopping capacity in both sheer stopping and cooling power. Over the last 2yrs I have heard of Stoptech discontinuing then bringing it back and now apparently discontinuing again? I'd check multiple sources before determining of ST has discontinued for good.

Tarox is seeing a resurgence due to some popular members running 16" or smaller wheels. I've heard nothing but good things about Tarox but UNLESS i'm forced to run a small wheel I'd much rather get the biggest brake package I can fit in a 17" wheel. Running Tarox also brings into the conversation running Spoon calipers on the stock NA2 rotors. It's not going to be a huge difference performance wise IMO and with the Spoon you keep the stock rear brake setup. IIRC the bias with Spoon front and stock NA2 rear is something like 60-65%... don't quote me on that.

Brembo - IIRC aren't brembos a 6 piston/4 piston setup? Aren't they a 18/19" wheel only? Someone correct me.

Now that my car isn't tracked regularly I'd probably consider a 4 wheel "upsize" kit from RF Yamamoto or Biot Japan. The pedal feel of the stock brakes are actually pretty good. They're just heavy and don't cool very well on sticky tires. So upsizing that to bigger rotors increases clamping pressure/torque of the stock calipers by 12% and the larger free floating rotors cools down quite well. Unfortunately the cast iron calipers are still heavy AF.

I split things down the middle. I went with the ST front and oversize rear (either RFY, Biot, or Sakebomb). This was the more economical route for me since, at the time, the Sakebomb kit was mucho dinero and I couldn't find any published brake bias numbers on them. Does anyone know this btw?

edit: btw.. Racing Brake also makes kits. They use suboptimal rotor metal material so i've generally stayed away from them. The Biot/RFY I know from experience have very very good rotor material. Comparable if not better than the DBAs from Australia.

 

[Reifen]

Just my $0.02.

Stoptech 4 corner BBK has pretty good bias at 63%. I'd probably prefer anywhere in the 55-60% myself. It also has the biggest rotor package that can fit in a 17/17 wheel setup which arguably is a good place to be to keep your options open and have the most amount of stopping capacity in both sheer stopping and cooling power. Over the last 2yrs I have heard of Stoptech discontinuing then bringing it back and now apparently discontinuing again? I'd check multiple sources before determining of ST has discontinued for good.

Tarox is seeing a resurgence due to some popular members running 16" or smaller wheels. I've heard nothing but good things about Tarox but UNLESS i'm forced to run a small wheel I'd much rather get the biggest brake package I can fit in a 17" wheel. Running Tarox also brings into the conversation running Spoon calipers on the stock NA2 rotors. It's not going to be a huge difference performance wise IMO and with the Spoon you keep the stock rear brake setup. IIRC the bias with Spoon front and stock NA2 rear is something like 60-65%... don't quote me on that.

Brembo - IIRC aren't brembos a 6 piston/4 piston setup? Aren't they a 18/19" wheel only? Someone correct me.

Now that my car isn't tracked regularly I'd probably consider a 4 wheel "upsize" kit from RF Yamamoto or Biot Japan. The pedal feel of the stock brakes are actually pretty good. They're just heavy and don't cool very well on sticky tires. So upsizing that to bigger rotors increases clamping pressure/torque of the stock calipers by 12% and the larger free floating rotors cools down quite well. Unfortunately the cast iron calipers are still heavy AF.

I split things down the middle. I went with the ST front and oversize rear (either RFY, Biot, or Sakebomb). This was the more economical route for me since, at the time, the Sakebomb kit was mucho dinero and I couldn't find any published brake bias numbers on them. Does anyone know this btw?

edit: btw.. Racing Brake also makes kits. They use suboptimal rotor metal material so i've generally stayed away from them. The Biot/RFY I know from experience have very very good rotor material. Comparable if not better than the DBAs from Australia.

The Brembo BBK has two options, even on SOS website. If you opt for the 4 piston front setup, it's the same size as the stoptech and you can put 17" wheels. If you have the 6 piston fronts, than you need 18" front wheels.

 

[Figgy]

Just my $0.02.

Stoptech 4 corner BBK has pretty good bias at 63%. I'd probably prefer anywhere in the 55-60% myself. It also has the biggest rotor package that can fit in a 17/17 wheel setup which arguably is a good place to be to keep your options open and have the most amount of stopping capacity in both sheer stopping and cooling power. Over the last 2yrs I have heard of Stoptech discontinuing then bringing it back and now apparently discontinuing again? I'd check multiple sources before determining of ST has discontinued for good.

Tarox is seeing a resurgence due to some popular members running 16" or smaller wheels. I've heard nothing but good things about Tarox but UNLESS i'm forced to run a small wheel I'd much rather get the biggest brake package I can fit in a 17" wheel. Running Tarox also brings into the conversation running Spoon calipers on the stock NA2 rotors. It's not going to be a huge difference performance wise IMO and with the Spoon you keep the stock rear brake setup. IIRC the bias with Spoon front and stock NA2 rear is something like 60-65%... don't quote me on that.

Brembo - IIRC aren't brembos a 6 piston/4 piston setup? Aren't they a 18/19" wheel only? Someone correct me.

Now that my car isn't tracked regularly I'd probably consider a 4 wheel "upsize" kit from RF Yamamoto or Biot Japan. The pedal feel of the stock brakes are actually pretty good. They're just heavy and don't cool very well on sticky tires. So upsizing that to bigger rotors increases clamping pressure/torque of the stock calipers by 12% and the larger free floating rotors cools down quite well. Unfortunately the cast iron calipers are still heavy AF.

I split things down the middle. I went with the ST front and oversize rear (either RFY, Biot, or Sakebomb). This was the more economical route for me since, at the time, the Sakebomb kit was mucho dinero and I couldn't find any published brake bias numbers on them. Does anyone know this btw?

edit: btw.. Racing Brake also makes kits. They use suboptimal rotor metal material so i've generally stayed away from them. The Biot/RFY I know from experience have very very good rotor material. Comparable if not better than the DBAs from Australia.

So it sounds like going with Stoptech st-40 ~$2000, and the Sakebomb(333x22) garage competition BBK rear rotors ($1250) with OEM rear calipers(NA1) would be a very solid upgrade choice?

 

[MotorMouth93]

Does anyone know if the Stoptech kit is still available?

 

[Figgy]

Does anyone know if the Stoptech kit is still available?

I don't think they are available through Stoptech, but it seems like plenty of distributors still have stock. Googling the P/N STO83.055.4300 comes up with the kit, or just googling ST40 NSX and plenty pop up!

 

[mwagner10702]

Stoptech BBKs should still be available. Most sites list them as not in stock. This is usually because they don't stock them as there are literally 100's of combinations of calipers, colors, rotor styles, etc.

For those interested I would suggest calling Adam at Buybrakes.com I recently (Nov 3rd) purchased some ST40 Trophy calipers from him and received excellent pricing and fast delivery. His number is 7029031713.

Mark

 

[RYU]

So it sounds like going with Stoptech st-40 ~$2000, and the Sakebomb(333x22) garage competition BBK rear rotors ($1250) with OEM rear calipers(NA1) would be a very solid upgrade choice?

I don't want to give you a biased opinion but this is basically what I'm running now. Except that I'm using the RFY rear setup which is the same concept as the Sakebomb. Earlier last year when I swapped to this setup, the JPY exchange rate was better so buying from Japan was cheaper than the Sakebomb. I haven't checked the exchange rate recently but I reckon they might be closer to each other in price. I also know what kind of rotor i'm getting with the RFY. I haven't researched which rotor Sakebomb is using.

This is a very minor nit pick but I like that the RFY uses more of the rear rotor as a percentage of brake pad coverage. The Sakebomb uses the same brake pad of course but it has a bigger rotor surface area so approximately less than 90% or so is used as the friction surface. Totally useless nit pick... I know.

Sakebomb disc brake coverage

This is a super old picture of the BIOT (same supplier for RFY). This is also the front kit since I couldn't find a rear pic

There's less unused rotor in the BIOT/RFY which means marginally lighter (I assume). Again this is a super lame point to call out... Don't sue me bro

 

[MaxGeek]

What front BBK has the smallest width for the caliper?

 

[RYU]

What front BBK has the smallest width for the caliper?

I'm sure that info is buried somewhere on this site. I don't have any empirical data available, but i'm going to say the Tarox & Spoon is probably the slimmest. However, technically the slimmest will be any oversize kit that uses the factory caliper.

 

[pennies_hatchie123]

Does anyone run Ceika BBK? https://ceika-store.com/

 

[Honcho]

I'm sure that info is buried somewhere on this site. I don't have any empirical data available, but i'm going to say the Tarox & Spoon is probably the slimmest. However, technically the slimmest will be any oversize kit that uses the factory caliper.

Agree, only Tarox and Spoon fit 16" front wheels. For those of us who rock the OG look.

 

[docjohn]

...and the rare comptech brembo 12.4 kit...

 

[MaxGeek]

Looks like Endless also makes a 6 pot Compact Mini front caliper.

1202110 | ENDLESS USA

endlessusa.com

 

[GUNDAN323]

...and the rare comptech brembo 12.4 kit...

Shameless plug, I have a set for sale.
https://www.nsxprime.com/threads/comptech-brembo-12-4”-indy-front-big-brake-kit-bbk.217961/

 

[Auraraptor]

Any thoughts on this:

Blitz Custom Competition Big Brake Kit with AP Racing Pro5000R (Front CP9440/330mm) Honda NSX NA1/NA2

Blitz Performance Custom Competition Big Brake Kit with AP Racing CP9440 for Honda NSX NA1/NA2 Kit features the following: AP Racing CP9440 4 Forged 4 pistons calipers 330x28mm Custom J-Hook Pattern In-house rotor hub Custom caliper bracket for Honda NSX NA1/NA2 (Please Specify Year)...

blitzperformance.ca

 

[hkz286]

the pro 5000r caliper doesn't use dust seals for the pistons. This isn't necessarily a problem in itself, as you just give them a wipe if you ever have to push the piston back in, however if you drive on roads with lots of salt and water, then it might lead to fast deterioration of the caliper piston (MIGHT as in, I don't know).

I have been developing a kit for my car using the radical 2 caliper and a 343mm x 28mm disc (the biggest I can fit behind a 17" advan rg3 wheel) and have found that whilst its not the thinnest caliper, all the bulk of the geometry is on the suspension side (where there is a plenty of room) which means the most clearance for wheels.

 

[MexiRicer]

I spoke with the Tarox guys at SEMA this year. They still produce the NSX brakes. My issues is that the rears still loose the parking brake. I think they would be prime for a group purchase.

Sorta yeah sorta no.

MexiRicer's 97 MCB

BTW, just in case anyone is wondering? https://www.thensxshop.com/nsxr/oem-honda-nsx-r-maintenance-lid Here you go!

www.nsxprime.com