Car and Driver Tire Review

[Dhalsim]

This article in Car and Driver was very timely as I was just looking for new tires today. So i wanted to post it and get some feedback from the tire gurus of Prime and others.

All tires tested were 225/45/17 which is actually close to the 215/40/17 I have been looking for and actually I found some tires only come in the 225.

The tires tested were:

Michellin Pilot Super Sport
Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position
Yokohama AD08
Hankook Ventus R-S3
Continental DW
Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymetric
Toyo Proxes R1R
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec
Pirelli P Zero

I kind of had decided I would get the Dunlops becuase I have them on my DD and I like them but this review is making me think twice and now I'm taking a good look at the Hankooks. But from my research on Prime it seems the extreme performance tires recommended are the RE11 (not in the review), Ecsta XS (not in the review), R1R, Azenis RT-615K (not in the review), Star Specs and ADO8s.

So what say you Prime?

 

[CL65 Captain]

A 225/45/17 will rub. If available, you are better off getting a 205/40/17 when the 215/40/17 is not available.

I have had 3 sets of Dunlop Z1 followed by the AD08. The AD08 is $300 a set more and IMO is not worth the extra money. Given the choice again I would go back to the Dunlop. I have looked at my lap data over the course of many events on Dunlops, Yokahomas and Nitto NT01s and while you can clearly see the advantages of the R-Comp NT01s in the data comparisons I am extremely, extremely surprised to see the disparity on R&T test between the Z1 and AD08 as my data and lap times so them as equals. Grassroots motorsports has done tire tests before and the two were much closer.

However, since I'm not going to be tracking my street tires anymore I see no reason to get either as you will never, ever use all the potential grip on the street - even driving hard on twisty roads. Therefore, my next set of street tires will be either the Continental DW or the brand new BFG g-Force Sport COMP-2. IMO the 300+ tread rating (compared to the 180 & 200 of the Dunlop/Yoko) is well worth the tradeoff for the street since you will not be using the full potential of the tire. If you have done a lot of tracking you understand that those that say "but I drive the canyons hard" are fooling themselves if they think they are using more than 80% of the tires true grip.

 

[Hrant]

+1 ^ regarding DW and the rationale of whether you will ever use the full potential of the tire's envelope in street driving. Especially when you consider price.

Having said this, the DW is old technology.

 

[SFNSXguy]

Why do you suppose they didn't test the Bridgestone RE11?

 

[Dhalsim]

A 225/45/17 will rub. If available, you are better off getting a 205/40/17 when the 215/40/17 is not available.

OK, I will keep that in mind.

I intend to only track 3 or 4 times a year so I don't need the best tire for the track. However most of the time I see on Prime the recommendation to at least use Extreme Performance tires on the NSX. So that leaves only the Yokos, Hankooks, Dunlops and Toyos from this comparison.

I wish they would have reviewed the RE-11, Ecsta XS and Azenis RT-615.

 

[Dhalsim]

The article also mentioned that the Michelin Pilot Super Sport was OEM for the 458 which I thought was odd that they would use a Max Performance instead of Extreme Performance tire.

 

[TURBO2GO]

What issue is this?

 

[Dhalsim]

What issue is this?

August 2012

You can see it on the very bottom right hand part of the page.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

I was also just looking at this today and thinking the star specs had fallen quite far behind since their reputation has been so good. Looks like they're not the top dog anymore. The Yokohama AD08 seems to be the way to go for a track tire now, just look at that dry performance!!

 

[Dhalsim]

I was also just looking at this today and thinking the star specs had fallen quite far behind since their reputation has been so good. Looks like they're not the top dog anymore. The Yokohama AD08 seems to be the way to go for a track tire now, just look at that dry performance!!

Agreed. But I was more impressed with the Hankooks....they were only 3 points behind the Yokos and ahead of all the others and price is $140 compared to $200 for the Yokos. They also got top scores in price, sound level and ride but took a big hit in the wet autocross test and well I dont plan on auto crossing in the rain.

 

[CL65 Captain]

I was also just looking at this today and thinking the star specs had fallen quite far behind since their reputation has been so good. Looks like they're not the top dog anymore. The Yokohama AD08 seems to be the way to go for a track tire now, just look at that dry performance!!

The SS and AD08 came out at about the same time. And I don't think they have changed either tire. My lap data contradicts the poor performance of the SS. Gransrootsmotorsports tests also confirm the same that the SS and AD08 were very close with the AD08 just slightly edging out the SS.

Maybe Yokahoma spends more advertising $$$ in C&D magazine?

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Hehe thanks Captain. I can't decide but discount tire direct has a $100 rebate on any four tires right now. $950 for a set of 17/18 AD08...

 

[HBui39]

numbers based on a short test is of little use to someone lapping over and over and over... what i want to see is lap times over at least 10 laps.

i have not tried the new Hankook's but did use its predecessor and those tires only gave me a few good laps before overheating.

i am running the Falken RT615k's currently and they are great tires, but with the price hike, i am looking for something else. i may just go with R compounds and call it a day... Nitto NT01's or Toyo R888's.

 

[Dhalsim]

numbers based on a short test is of little use to someone lapping over and over and over... what i want to see is lap times over at least 10 laps.

i have not tried the new Hankook's but did use its predecessor and those tires only gave me a few good laps before overheating.

i am running the Falken RT615k's currently and they are great tires, but with the price hike, i am looking for something else. i may just go with R compounds and call it a day... Nitto NT01's or Toyo R888's.

This wasn't actually a track tire test. Otherwise I think they would have included R comps.

 

[bee_are_bee]

I would love to get a set of the Hankook RS3s but they aren't made in the requisite 215/40/17 for the stock '02+ wheels :frown:

 

[HBui39]

This wasn't actually a track tire test. Otherwise I think they would have included R comps.

regardless, any good performance street tire should perform well on track as well. not just for one lap.

 

[Nero Tenebre]

I think all the extreme category tires all have AA temp ratings- I've narrowed it down to the AD08 and Michelin Pilot Super Sport. Maybe the Hankooks. Wet performance isn't a priority for me on this set, which is good because you can't get the PSS in a 40 aspect ratio for a 17" wheel so it's not on the radar anyways. Looks like AD08 is the winner for a track day tire, if you want to drive there and back on them seeing street duty. Also, the first thing the article points out is that the Dunlop SS were the top dog in 2009 but not anymore- they finished near the bottom now. Wondering if the others have caught up or what- Everyone loves them and the captain has his own unbiased data log...

 

[kaede]

Ｉ have tracked on my e39 m5 with the pss, ss, ad08, r1r, and some r-comps. If you're looking for the best bang for buck then go with the ss or r1r, they are very good performers on the street and does a decent job on the track. With the nsx should be no problem (tires hold not as well since the e39 weighs like a hippo). But i have to more or less agree with the review about the pss, best tires i have drove on so far for the price, dry and wet performance both track and road! =D

 

[nsxtasy]

What rules out many of these tires is availability in the sizes we need. For example, you can't get the Michelin Pilot Super Sport, Hankook Ventus R-S3, Bridgestone Potenza S-04 Pole Position, or Pirelli PZero in any sizes for the front of an NSX, so you're just not going to see them discussed much here. Other tires are available for some NSX wheel diameters but not for others. That's why you usually only see 2-4 tires (or less!) mentioned when someone asks for a recommendation for certain size wheels; the others don't come in those sizes.

Only four of the tires mentioned above are available in 215/40-17 for those using 17" front wheels on an NSX: the Yokohama Advan Neova AD08, Continental ExtremeContact DW (not at Tire Rack, but elsewhere), Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec, and Falken Azenis RT-615K. Those are your only choices in 215/40-17. (In North America, anyway.)

 

[dablackgoku1234]

So in short, go with Yokohama AD08 for the track and Continental DW for DD.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Ken, there are a few more when you add in 205/40/17 size which is more than acceptable for the street and hardly noticeable difference on the track.

For the street/track you can add in the new BFG g-Force Comp 2 and track (R Comp) NT01, R888 & RA1 come in a 205/40/17.

The new BFG is probably comparable to the Cont DW - it's new so no tests but reviews including Grassroots Motorsports say they are very good dry and wet.

I ran 205/40/17 255/40/17 NT01s on my 02 wheels and ran the Goodyear F1GS3D on the street and track in that size.

The new BFG g-Force Comp 2 is nice looking and pretty cheap....

 

[Hapa88]

Ken, there are a few more when you add in 205/40/17 size which is more than acceptable for the street and hardly noticeable difference on the track.

For the street/track you can add in the new BFG g-Force Comp 2 and track (R Comp) NT01, R888 & RA1 come in a 205/40/17.

The new BFG is probably comparable to the Cont DW - it's new so no tests but reviews including Grassroots Motorsports say they are very good dry and wet.

I ran 205/40/17 255/40/17 NT01s on my 02 wheels and ran the Goodyear F1GS3D on the street and track in that size.

The new BFG g-Force Comp 2 is nice looking and pretty cheap....

Tire Rack categories the BFG g-Force Comp 2 as an Ultra High Performance category tire and the Cont DW a step up in the Max Performance category.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Tire Rack categories the BFG g-Force Comp 2 as an Ultra High Performance category tire and the Cont DW a step up in the Max Performance category.

yes, they do. But they both have a tread wear of 340 and Grassroots really like the new BFG on and off the autocross course especially in the wet. I wouldn't say the BFG is a good street/track tire but probably a pretty good street tire.

Here is a review...

http://ls1tech.com/forums/wheels-tires/1525824-bfg-g-force-sport-comp-2-review.html

 

[Hapa88]

yes, they do. But they both have a tread wear of 340 and Grassroots really like the new BFG on and off the autocross course especially in the wet.

Come on CL! You know you can't compare UTQG ratings across different brands!! :tongue:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=48

Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.

Seems like it would be a good street tire though..

 

[nsxtasy]

Ken, there are a few more when you add in 205/40/17 size which is more than acceptable for the street and hardly noticeable difference on the track.

With the exception of the ultra high performance BFG, all the other tires you mention are R compound tires for the racetrack. Up till now, the entire discussion has been about tires for the street, or for a mix of street and track use. R comps really ought to be discussed separately, not only because so many things are different (usage, price, treadwear, etc), but also because availability of sizes is so different. I'm not criticizing R comps; they're great for racetrack-only use. But we've been talking about street tires here, not track tires.

Oh, and as for R comps for 17" front NSX wheels, the only R comp I know of that's even available in 215/40-17 is the Kumho Ecsta V710. So yes, if you don't want that one, you have to get a different size, in which case 205/40-17 is just fine, especially if your front wheels are narrower than 17x8 so you can't use the uberwide 235/40 R comps. Oh, and Toyo's website specs do not show the RA-1 in 205/40-17, so I'm not sure whether it's still available in that size as you say.