Caviet Emptor indeed!

[NoSeX4U]

Well, after innumerable great and rewarding experiences buying and selling privately over the internet, I finally got f*cked. I arranged to buy a set of '94 wheels from a fellow 'Primer, DL-NA1, after recieving pictures and a description over the phone (He's in Seattle, I'm in Toronto). I was told/shown that one rim had MINOR curbage and the rest were PERFECT. Small stone chips are to be expected from 10 year-old rims so I'm not whining about microscopic abnormalities. Here's his pichttp://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23280
What I got was far from that. The 'curbed' rim has gouges in three of the 7 spokes, through the paint and into the metal, two more or chipped and hacked around the edge, and the last one is the only one that looks like a standard 10 year old rim. What a disappointment that the two transactions I've tried here have met with dismal results. (I also tried to purchase from Dali racing, but was only ignored, not ripped off). SoS is also having some difficulty filling my order, but have been in somewhat regular contact with me so no complaints (but if Chris or Seth sees this, I NEED those window things, I can hear the tell-tale grindy noise!). Anyway, if you find yourself negotiating with the above-mentioned person, bear in mind HIS idea of perfect will likely be far from yours. I'll post pics of my 'new and wonderful' rims later. Was simply too disappointed to make the effort. I spent over an hour cleaning them as they also arrived filthy on the inside. If this is any indication of how DL-NA1/Jonathan Hsu keeps his ride, all I can say is when it comes up for sale-RUN don't walk away!

 

[KGP]

A. Did you get the OEM tires that were listed with the wheels? Condition of those?
B. Price was $1K?
C. Be nice if you would post pics of the "dissapointment."
D. I missed the part where you tell what the problem with them is, other than they didn't meet your expecations.

Not saying you don't have a reason to complain. Just need more info to draw a personal conclusion.

 

[NoSeX4U]

The description is in the second paragraph. I'm going out now to take photos.

 

[KGP]

The description is in the second paragraph. I'm going out now to take photos.

Whoops, sorry! I was reading it too fast I guess. Bring on the Pics!

 

[DL-NA1]

Tim,

I just reply to your email also.
I can't believe you would say such thing, I would never try to rip anyone off!! I dont' need to do that. I send you the pictures of wheel and you agree on the deal. Since you are going to post some pictures, please post the pictures that I send you also. You claim the pictures were alter, sorry I am not that good with photoshops. You want to bad mouth me like you are doing now, I have no control over it. Anyone that knows me would know that is not true.

 

[NoSeX4U]

Jonathan,
If you feel what you sent me was as you described it, then either one of us has smoked too much happy-weed or one of us is lying. I'm not asking for a refund or anything like that. Again all I can say is your definition of MINOR is a far cry from mine (and anyone else I know for that matter) If I can figure out how to reduce my pics enough to show then by all means we'll let the forum pronounce judgement on whether this is a good bang for $1000 U.S. plus $95 U.S. shiiping plud $270 CDA brokerage fee. And it's only bad-mouthing if it's untrue/unfair. If everyone agrees with you I'll surely apologize. But that ain't gonna happen because these are sorry rims.

 

[NoSeX4U]

Best I could do-we'll see if this www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/pc01f8af8d125f7a8a131294351030875/s or
www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid85/p58a887d82da2114d1c9211d2acf4979a/fabedb5e.jpg

 

[nsxtasy]

Most honorable sellers would be willing to give a refund if the product isn't satisfactory. In that case, the argument is then limited to who gets stuck with the shipping charges (and splitting them evenly means neither side gets stuck with all that much of a loss). I don't know anything about cross-border brokerage fees but maybe they can be refunded if the goods are returned.

I'm not taking sides, just offering a suggestion that everyone might live with.

 

[projektNA1]

where are the other wheels? i thought you said they were pretty much all bad except for one.

 

[NoSeX4U]

Help!!! I set up an Imagestation account but am too stupid to get the link here!!!http://www.imagestation.com/album/pictures.html?id=4288778545

oh...is working now

I R Dunderhead

 

[DL-NA1]

These are the pictures that I have send to Tim,

 

[nsxtasy]

My thoughts on this:

1. Wheels and tires should be as described. Because there is no text in the NSXprime listing, it is difficult to see what was said regarding a description.

2. Based on the photo and description by NoSeX4U, the chips and gouges in that one wheel should have been included in the description.

3. If two of the other wheels have curbing, that should have been in the description. Curbing is a very basic condition, not a perception; either a wheel has been curbed, or not. No arguments.

4. I expect all wheels and tires to be dirty. Very dirty.

5. A price of $1000 for a set of '94 wheels in good condition (no curbing) and good tires (e.g. OEM tires with a decent amount of tread) is significantly less than market price. WAY under market price. With the damage to one wheel, these are probably still worth more than what DL received for them.

Granted, a deal is a deal, and something that is not as described is not right because it is not part of the deal... but if it just turns out to be a good deal instead of a great deal, then I'm not sure there is a valid complaint. And if you don't accept an offer to ship them back for a refund - I'm not saying that this has been offered, but speaking hypothetically at least - then there's no valid complaint.

 

[NoSeX4U]

I never recieved the top photo. If I had, as I stated in my e-mail to J, I would have accepted the offer at a different price. Regardless, I think what I showed backs up what I said. As to shipping back, it would cost me the same as fixing these. Added to the cash already layed out, that just doesn't seem viable. If you'd seen the first of DL-NA1's pics, would you agree to spend $1000 plus plus, and THEN complain about it? There's no logic there. That's the point. And the other rims, though not nearly as bad, will still require some le j'd'main and not just touch-up paint. I didn't expect perfect, but the shock of the gouge followed by the rough duo, well...seems a high price to pay when another seller with a stirling rep on Prime was offering the same deal only 95's for $200 more. I'd have gone that route but had already begun to deal with Jon. Thought I was doing the right thing. If you can tell me how to attach an e-mail here I'll do so. But thanks for your reasonablilty. Live and learn...

 

[NSXDreamer2]

I'm totally agree with nsxtasy, I'm sorry to both of you... but if in case the seller Purposely didn't send the first pic to nosex4u ,he is definately tried to hide something..

But yeah, $1000 with tires on those rims are way under market price. So even nosex4u had to send the wheels to refinish, he still get a good deal.

On a bright side, Nosex4u, you may have the wheels powder coat to the color you want. (If in case you want to have a different color wheels.)

 

[NoSeX4U]

That's all true. I wasn't aware that the price was under-market. So I'll turn my frown...upside-down...and look for a polisher/powder-coater in the area. Anyone know a powder-coater/polisher in Toronto...?

 

[Tony Montoya]

I also think you got a good deal and it is not the fault of the seller that custom duties are so high. If that 275 dollar charge included taxes you did very well.
The tires look like they have some tread left and for 400 you can get the wheels refinished.

 

[NoSeX4U]

Any suggestions of where locally, Tony?

 

[DL-NA1]

First, you said you don't know it's below market value, then how come you are saying you found a better price somewhere else?? Second, I am sure you are gonna say you DIDN'T received the first picture. There is no reason to hide the curb picture, it's not like you are not going to see that when you get the wheels. Anyways, I think the damage has been done. Thank you very much!

 

[steveny]

Looking at all the picture except the first one, Three of the wheels look near perfect. Is it possible that two of those Three were damaged in shipping?

 

[NoSeX4U]

I didn't say better -I said $200 MORE for perfect. And I already said you never sent the top pic...ask yourself, why would I put myself through all the trouble of importing rims, getting bank drafts, mailing off cheques, paying large brokerage fees, etc etc etc, when I've seen pictures of damage that seems to be aggrivating me NOW? I'm doing this to screw up your future political asspirations or something? Your (never-before-seen-til-now) picture of the curb abuse is as clear as mine on Imagestation. I think I'd have noticed that before delivery, as it's pretty obvious. So why am I pissed now? Because I'm blind and just got my sight back in time to see the actual rims? C'mon Jon, you snookered me, and that's my fault for trusting you...but don't insult the collective reasoning abilities of people at large. we're not ALL stupid! As you say, the damage is done, and remember that loss of credibility is far worse than a few bucks. Spend them wisely.

 

[NoSeX4U]

No, Steveny, the packaging was top-notch and no perforations or even dents/deformations on the surface cardboard. It's just a disappointing event that will not mar an otherwise enjoyable experience with a 'new' car that I really like. Nor will it disuade me from dealing honestly and fairly with people on the internet or heighten any sense of mistrust that this experience might engender in others as I believe (most) people are honest, straight-up and don't try to shave the truth to facilitate any personal gain. Hell, maybe DL-NA1 just isn't too good with e-mail and, by the wildest of circumstance, simply omitted the one pivitol picture and accidently damped down the resolution on the other pics to blur any other marks that, I freely admit, I am re-acting most strongly to. Either way, I've got a set of rims that will eventually look VERY COOL on my car. A little Pyrhic but at least they showed up

 

[steveny]

I know how you feel as far as the excitement and anticipation of receiving the wheels and then BAM not what you expected. I bought a set from Prime "parts for sale" section a while back. I also received pictures and was very excited to get the wheels on the car. The wheels I bought had been refinished and never mounted on a car. They were perfect. I was so waiting to get them and then they arrived. I knew that something was up as soon as I watched the UPS guy unload the boxes that looked as though they had been dropped 20,000 feet out of a plane. All four wheels were ruined. I was so let down, just deflated. Insurance covered them.
So I ordered a brand new (non OEM) set from a place in New Mexico. The set came, looked great but the bore for hub was reversed front to back. I had to send them back. They sent out another set. This set the bore was perfect for the back but too small for the front. I sent the fronts back. They sent out another set of fronts. Third set arrives. DAMAGED. AGHHH. I sent that set back. Fourth set arrives and fits perfect. So when all was done and said what should have been a pleasurable experience turned out to be an all out effort of..Lets just get this over with.
BTW the rims were only on my car for 2 weeks before I put a HUGE curb mark in one on a granite curb.

 

[NoSeX4U]

Steveny, I have now officially put this behind me. I appreciate what everyone has had to say, and if there are those who feel I'm outta line, well sorry, but I don't buy into the modern 'passive-aggressive' mind-set that sees people wringing their hands and doing nothing else. And if I'm persona-non-gratis in Seattle, well the Seahawks will just have to get by without me. It rains there all the time anyway...As Forest Gump said 'That's all I've got to say about that.'

 

[NSXDreamer2]

In regards to Seveny's bad experience, I would have already demand a different company delivering the wheels other than the brown truck company. The driver I get the stuff at my work place was very good, however, there are some UPS drivers drives like Montoya when their truck is fully loaded and kicking the boxes around so they can fit more stuff into the truck. In my own experience, if the company who can ship out the units with FEDEX, I will do it thru them. I have never get any damage or delay for stuff I ordered via phone/internet which went through them.

 

[MYSTIeatsNSX's]

Well, just to add my 2cents to this discussion. Being a personal friend and associate with Tim, I know him to be nothing if not an honest and straight up guy. I happen'd to be standing right next to him when the rims showed up. And yes, the packaging was perfect.

You have to know him to understand how excited he was to buy this car. When he paid for it I was there as well. My point is that the condition of the rims in question was simply not acceptable. Not in my world or anyone elses regardless of the amount paid.

Truth is, two of the rims were what I would describe as ok. One had slight damage and the rim in the above pictures that was so dissapointing that I can only label it a disaster. Of course, I'm telling him to send it back but Tim is not like that. And yeah, if he had been informed of the true damage to the rim he would not have bought.

He will fix the problem at HIS expense. Another lesson learned I guess but it should not have happened. I can't help but speculate that the seller knew what he was selling and what kind of condition the rim was in and casually FORGOT to send the picture of the damage in question. I'm sorry but I don't buy it.

I too have a car that I love and cherish. I will NOT buy used parts on the internet for same reasons I am posting here. Tim and I are very close and to see the dissapointment on his face as we were looking at his purchase was a crying shame. Instead of jacking his NSX up and bolting his new rims on, we instead spent the next 20 minutes figuring out what shop in Toronto might be able to fix the damage.

It's a shame that some people feel that they can misrepresent things to others. In Tim's case, it's too much hassle to send them back and he's too good natured anyway. I'm surprised he complained at all. But I can and will. The least the seller could have done was to offer to make it right or at least share a portion of the cost but I'm sure he won't. Not many guys like Tim around anymore I guess.