clarification on vendor posts

[ScienceofSpeed]

hi Lud --

Would you please clarify the requirements for vendor posts in forums other than the vendor section.

Recently was a post online discussing crankshaft pulley failures. I indicated that the pulley could not be inspected visually for signs of separation, and suggested a part to be used if the owner did not want to spend money on a new crankshaft pulley and included a link.

This interaction seems appropriate, and would be compared to a vendor starting a new thread in a forum other than the vendor section, to discuss a new product or service.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[NSX Prime]

Hi Chris,

I generally prefer if vendors do not directly promote product outside the vendor forum at all. I give people a little latitude sometimes, esp. for local service businesses, but if you're looking for specific advice on this situation it would be to not link back to your own product in a DIY thread. The advice itself was fine. But I know people generally get upset when someone edits their post so I just deleted it instead of removing the link.

Thanks for asking.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Thanks for the clarification. I am still a little confused however.

If we reply to a thread outside of the vendor section with advice on a product, or answering a question on a product, do you want us to create a post in the vendor section to link to rather than linking to the product on our website instead? Or, is this not the issue, and rather providing recommendation on a product? In the example above, advice was given about information that a machine shop told the individual about a factory part (that was inaccurate), and a product was recommended that would address the concern. Does this not follow what you're looking for? Vendors providing advice (whether or not it involves a product recommendation) to forum members seems like a positive thing, not a negative thing, as long as the vendor isn't directly marketing and the other vendor rules in place are being followed - especially if the recomendation provided by the vendor addresses a concern of the individual.

 

[StmpoRaceProducts]

Thanks for the clarification. I am still a little confused however.

In the example above, advice was given about information that a machine shop told the individual about a factory part (that was inaccurate), and a product was recommended that would address the concern. Does this not follow what you're looking for? Vendors providing advice (whether or not it involves a product recommendation) to forum members seems like a positive thing, not a negative thing, as long as the vendor isn't directly marketing and the other vendor rules in place are being followed - especially if the recomendation provided by the vendor addresses a concern of the individual.

Since I'm the only person refusing to buy parts from you and also the only one mentioning that your out of line when you do something like this based on Lud's rules provided.. I would like to ask some questions.

How are you addressing the concern if the individual.. when in this example.. the individual owns the part you posted, posted that he was installing that part previously in the thread, then after your "marketing attempt outside of the vendor section" post.. the individual mentioned he bought the part your posting from your company.

How is a vendor posting a direct link to their website not direct marketing. Your advising on what your company sells in the situation.. not "help and advice".. your implementing "advice with marketing that helps your profits"

How can it be advise if it is bias to what you offer on your website only. If your posting advice... give it without the potential for profit. Would you refer people to del rey acura to buy the oem part at $20 under your price for the same part? Because that what I did.. advising them that you can follow "chris wilsons" expert advise and saving money too.

Do you feel the rules of the 'off topic' section should be implemented in the NSX build section?

I'll back off and follow the rules LUD identifies on this thread.. but at least explain yourself as if you read the thread your questioning and attempting to explain to LUD

 

[comtec]

I think it would be helpful for a vendor to be able to mention they have a product available even if they can't post a link.

Stmpo,
I don't know what you have against Chris or SOS and i don't really care but your lashing out at him here seems inappropriate. If i were him i wouldn't respond.


Mike

 

[NSX Prime]

Thanks for the clarification. I am still a little confused however.

If we reply to a thread outside of the vendor section with advice on a product, or answering a question on a product, do you want us to create a post in the vendor section to link to rather than linking to the product on our website instead? Or, is this not the issue, and rather providing recommendation on a product? In the example above, advice was given about information that a machine shop told the individual about a factory part (that was inaccurate), and a product was recommended that would address the concern. Does this not follow what you're looking for? Vendors providing advice (whether or not it involves a product recommendation) to forum members seems like a positive thing, not a negative thing, as long as the vendor isn't directly marketing and the other vendor rules in place are being followed - especially if the recomendation provided by the vendor addresses a concern of the individual.

Chris, as I said the advice itself is a positive thing, as you said. Many vendors have experience that can benefit other members. Perhaps it will be clearer if I give three examples based on the post in question to help illustrate what I am after:


1. The original post in question, with a product link. I would prefer not to have posts like this outside the Vendor forum.

Originally posted by Chris@SOS
The factory pulley can not be inspected because the flange where the failures most often occur are hidden. I would recommend replacing this at your car's age, or at least a shield for insurance:
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produc...Damper_Shield/

2. A slight edit without the link but with a "sell," as I've seen various vendors do from time to time outside the Vendor forum. I would prefer not to have posts like this outside the Vendor forum.

The factory pulley can not be inspected because the flange where the failures most often occur are hidden. I would recommend replacing this at your car's age, or at least a shield for insurance. We have these shields in stock - check our site or give me a call to discuss.

3. A slight edit without the link or any direct attempt to sell. Just offering advice. I am fine with vendors making posts like this outside the Vendor forum. There is still a good chance the poster is going to check your site since he knows you are a vendor. But it avoids people in the DIY forum feeling like whenever they post about their issue or product someone is trying to sell them something. If they primarily wanted product recommendations they could post in the Vendor forum to begin with, as many people do.

The factory pulley can not be inspected because the flange where the failures most often occur are hidden. I would recommend replacing this at your car's age, or at least an aftermarket pulley shield for insurance.

 

[Hrant]

With all due respect to all, I think Chris' suggestion is reasonable - and I would have said the same if it was another vendor (and yes I am vendor but that is irrelevant in my reasoning). If his request is too much to swallow then Lud's example two should be fine. I see nothing wrong and for the following reasons:

1) The number of long standing vendors - whether for pure business/profit, or as side business, or for pure hobby - has become far and between.

2) For such vendors to continue to exist with some reasonable expectations of staying power, they need exposure and referrals.

3) As more and more new owners have joined the forum, and this is a good thing, sadly less and less are doing a search or even trying to support this small cottage industry - something that other long standing Prime members have also noted in the past.

4) A response to a DIY thread (or others - edit: with exception of another vendor's thread) with a reference to a vendor associated product doesn't necessarily lend itself to the same type of post in the vendor section unless the same issue is addressed anew by the vendor in order to offer the solution with a vendor related product offering. A Prime member or other browsers doing a DIY search on said topic will not know of the solution for he/she would not be seeking such info in the vendor section.

In the end, it really boils down to a basic human nature and economic principle: nothing is really free. We have members who join Prime only to post as their first post a for sale item/NSX. We have others who keep asking for advice from vendors who have solved these problems only to turn around and proudly note they ordered the part/solution from an Internet source cheaper - yet they come back or even call vendors asking for the "how to install manual" or how to solve their issue of the misfitting part from the Internet vendor only to learn that the Internet vendor forgot to also mention ..... you fill the blanks!

In my view, supporting the established vendors with their occasional reference to their product (or even website) is a good thing/service.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.

 

[NSX Prime]

Hrant - It has always been my goal to have a fairly strict delineation between the parts of the site where people sell things and the parts of the site where they do not. In case you haven't noticed, I don't even allow people to run "classified ads" in signatures here.

I am sorry if this differs from the way you feel it should be handled, but I hope the above three examples help make clear how I would like the site to operate.

 

[Hrant]

Lud no need to apologize; it's your forum, your rules. But feedback is always good. While I am not the OP, your post has caught my interest - it is Friday and I have some free time :wink:

Not sure if I fully understand to appreciate the nuances in the three examples you referenced with: "I hope the above three examples help make clear how I would like the site to operate."

If the intent in DIY responses is to be helpful and #3 is acceptable to you, why burden the OP or other readers with another layer of presumed search than use say the option in example 2? So, if a non-vendor mentions the solution is available at vendor X and offers a link, that would be ok; but if the vendor posts (as in example 2) the same response minus the link that would not?

How many vendors have really abused or OPs complained of such for receiving a vendor linked solution that wasn't relevant to their needs with "But it avoids people in the DIY forum feeling like whenever they post about their issue or product someone is trying to sell them something"?

I think all reputable vendors are trying to be as informative/helpful as possible. And sometimes a shortcut to the solution is the most efficient information - and if that info is not "accurate" I am sure the rest of the reading community will be quick with their draw ......

 

[UnhuZ]

Lud,

i see your point and do agree to some extent.

But there is a catch to it... you don't find that vendors can/should go to a Out-of-Marketplace forum and post a direct link, but that very same thing is done ALL the time by other members: Different start but SAME result.

Members refer to products with links and photos all the time...

with this, my question is: Why descriminate based on WHO posted it ??

A Vendor doesn't do it, but in the very same thread, a regular member can do it.

Hope i explained my point reasonably well.

Thanks,
Nuno

 

[docjohn]

I think its perfectly clear...if you are a vendor you should be held to a different standard than the average poster,I agree and understand Luds point.No grey zone,but the issue becomes enforcement and people have very good selective memory,so if a self promotion post on prime by a vendor goes uncorrected ...well that still is not an excuse to advertise ones wares outside of the vendor forum.

 

[NSX Prime]

Not sure if I fully understand to appreciate the nuances in the three examples you referenced with: "I hope the above three examples help make clear how I would like the site to operate."

I find that hard to believe, but I will try to answer:

#1 is a vendor providing advice and ending with a link to the relevant item for sale on the vendor's website.

#2 is a vendor providing advice and ending with a solicitation to do business.

#3 is a vendor simply providing advice.

with this, my question is: Why descriminate based on WHO posted it ??

A Vendor doesn't do it, but in the very same thread, a regular member can do it.


Thanks,
Nuno

I understand your question but don't really know how to answer it because the difference is intuitively obvious to me. If you think about it for a while and still don't see the difference, I guess we may just be coming from a very different viewpoint.



While I enjoy discussion, at this point I feel I have expressed my position on this as best I am able. If anyone has further questions about what is and is not OK, please post examples and I'll simply give a yes or no. Thanks.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Lud --

Thank you for taking the time to respond to the question. As it was I found the rules as they pertain to this issue to be vague. With this clarification I think your expectations are better defined.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Hrant]

OK, now I am really getting confused with what the moderators find objectionable with a post and picture that I contributed offering the color combo that the OP asked in this thread #15:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1582999#post1582999

This was WITHOUT promoting anything, since I DO NOT offer said old product for sale, nor a link to a website per Rule #3 above. Unless now the objection is the signature which is required by Prime rules to start with! So what gives?

When I add the other pending unanswered inquiry that I have on this forum regarding closing a thread, I am starting to wonder if I am getting senile.

 

[NSX Prime]

OK, now I am really getting confused with what the moderators find objectionable with a post and picture that I contributed offering the color combo that the OP asked in this thread #15:

http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1582999#post1582999

This was WITHOUT promoting anything, since I DO NOT offer said old product for sale, nor a link to a website per Rule #3 above. Unless now the objection is the signature which is required by Prime rules to start with! So what gives?

When I add the other pending unanswered inquiry that I have on this forum regarding closing a thread, I am starting to wonder if I am getting senile.

Hrant,

To date, you have not posted in the thread you linked, nor have ANY posts been deleted from it. Therefore I'm not really sure what you are asking.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Over the years there have been many rip off artists claiming to be NSX experts and vendors. Anyone remember Todd from Tampa?

We should be so lucky to have 4-5 good reliable vendors. Vendors that have spent 1000's of hours helping NSX owners. 1000's of hours doing things for FREE............like answering PM's, diagnosing problems over the phone, holding how to clinics at meets, showing up at track meets and also making suggestions on posts for which they have NO product to sell. All of these threads serve as a dictionary for future members on how they may solve a problem.

How exactly does it help another member 100's or 1000's of miles away if the Vendor is strickly limited to posting "call me and I can help" or "PM me"????

There has to be a better long term solution.

 

[NSX Prime]

How exactly does it help another member 100's or 1000's of miles away if the Vendor is strickly limited to posting "call me and I can help" or "PM me"????

At no point has anyone in this thread proposed anything like that.

 

[Hrant]

Hrant,

To date, you have not posted in the thread you linked, nor have ANY posts been deleted from it. Therefore I'm not really sure what you are asking.

Well as I said I must be getting senile.

I actually quoted Hugh's post 19 in my response. I previewed my post with a picture - before posting - and then hit submit reply. It would have landed around post #21. Perhaps the submit reply failed and my memory is only based on the preview. Otherwise I too can't explain it.

 

[NSX Prime]

Well as I said I must be getting senile.

I actually quoted Hugh's post 19 in my response. I previewed my post with a picture - before posting - and then hit submit reply. It would have landed around post #21. Perhaps the submit reply failed and my memory is only based on the preview. Otherwise I too can't explain it.

I agree that it sounds like it never submitted for some reason.