CTSC charged air cooling discusion....

Wow, you have made your opinion very clear.

We had two of the cooled Whipples running at Mid-Ohio last year and the ambient temp on the first day was 94. While the coolers do heat soak the delta temp seems to be around 40 degrees over ambient. The IATs were around 130 and if you don't cool the high boost Whipple you can see temps around 220. This was viewed as a success by all involved so I don't know why your set up did not work very well..


jdnsx...you posted this on the ctsc dyno thread found here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044767#post1044767

There are some electronic guages that hook up to the OBD II port and can read boost from the stock sensor up 11 LBS.


You’re obviously using electronic gauges... because you mention these temps on the track and not the dyno while advising other people to use them as well.

In this case our AEM electronic gauges read far superior results then those stated above with both our BBSC and GMSC air to waters.

Exact readings directly from the AEM on the dyno showed true intake air temp. substantially higher then the never reliable electronic gauge yet still lower then pre water to air readings.

If you are truly receiving 130 deg iat, your core should be similar to this temp, the non electronical or mechanical test to this would be to place your hand on the core as it is a direct measure to the temperature of the air.

130deg should is a low enough temp to keep your hand against the core yet 220 deg should be sufficient to burn your hand, you cant have 130deg iat on a 200+ deg core. You can’t have a 130 deg core sandwiched in between a 300+ deg engine block and a piping hot auto rotor...no matter how much water you’re pushing through it...
 
jdnsx...you posted this on the ctsc dyno thread found here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showt...67#post1044767

You are going to continue to struggle when you post like this.

We will execpt continuing to struggle before we give the wrong adivse...
over 30 nsx owners who have experianced us within the last 60 days will disagree with you wholeheartly...

We will just move on to the next car if we have to...We chose the NSX as our first major R&D vehicle because of the small handfull of people who are actually creating parts.Trying to convience larger companies who refuse to make parts for our minimully produced vehicles will not satisfy our need...

We have taken none of this personally... we would actually ask you to call in person. There may be something you cant find the time to produce that we can help on...

I am leaving for the dyno.. here is my cell number

Kyle - 480-510-8235

Regards
 
Wow, you have made your opinion very clear.

We had two of the cooled Whipples running at Mid-Ohio last year and the ambient temp on the first day was 94. While the coolers do heat soak the delta temp seems to be around 40 degrees over ambient. The IATs were around 130 and if you don't cool the high boost Whipple you can see temps around 220. This was viewed as a success by all involved so I don't know why your set up did not work very well..


jdnsx...you posted this on the ctsc dyno thread found here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1044767#post1044767

There are some electronic guages that hook up to the OBD II port and can read boost from the stock sensor up 11 LBS.


You’re obviously using electronic gauges... because you mention these temps on the track and not the dyno while advising other people to use them as well.


In this case our AEM electronic gauges read far superior results then those stated above with both our BBSC and GMSC air to waters.

Exact readings directly from the AEM on the dyno showed true intake air temp. substantially higher then the never reliable electronic gauge yet still lower then pre water to air readings.

If you are truly receiving 130 deg iat, your core should be similar to this temp, the non electronical or mechanical test to this would be to place your hand on the core as it is a direct measure to the temperature of the air.

130deg should is a low enough temp to keep your hand against the core yet 220 deg should be sufficient to burn your hand, you cant have 130deg iat on a 200+ deg core. You can’t have a 130 deg core sandwiched in between a 300+ deg engine block and a piping hot auto rotor...no matter how much water you’re pushing through it...

1. No, I am using the stock sensor with an electronic display and I did not advise anyone to use them I simply stated they were available to hook up to the OBDII port. Please read more carefully.
2. If your AEM is so good and your Paxton ran so hot, you might want to check it against Devin's sensors at AEM because his Paxton, Laminova core, and AEM sensors ran IATs 126 degrees or lower!!!!
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53562
3. It is 91 degrees here today and I have pushed the car for the last hour and my temps are as follows using a laser thermometer.
Charger 202.6
Laminova core 137.8
Aluminum water tank 128.3
Intake manifold 199.0
I forgot to take one of the block but please remember the only thing connected to the heads/block are the runners. I am not using guesses or theories here, I am using 3 years of design and testing with help from,
Laminova
Opcon
Shad at Driving Ambitions
Factor X
Setrab
Pro ECM
Titanium Dave
Etc.
Maybe your core was to open, or your water flow was to slow/fast, or your heat exchanger to small, or your water lines to small. Please don't say it is impossible because yours did not work.
 
jdnsx...you posted this on the ctsc dyno thread found here

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showt...67#post1044767

You are going to continue to struggle when you post like this.

We will execpt continuing to struggle before we give the wrong adivse...
over 30 nsx owners who have experianced us within the last 60 days will disagree with you wholeheartly...

We will just move on to the next car if we have to...We chose the NSX as our first major R&D vehicle because of the small handfull of people who are actually creating parts.Trying to convience larger companies who refuse to make parts for our minimully produced vehicles will not satisfy our need...

We have taken none of this personally... we would actually ask you to call in person. There may be something you cant find the time to produce that we can help on...

I am leaving for the dyno.. here is my cell number

Kyle - 480-510-8235

Regards

You gave the wrong advice in the wrong place when you came on a thread supported by another vendor and said,

"Back to forcedindction.........We as NSX owners are still in the past of screwing around with superchargers. Lets face it. For the money/power, isnt it better to turbo? You sure can make tons more power, not to mention a huge selection of turbos to choose from....superchargers are no more then a waste of time and money....Keep them on the Hemi's, thats there best home."

As you might have figured out by now, I don't believe chargers or intercoolers for the twin screw chargers are a waste of time or money.
 
You gave the wrong advice in the wrong place when you came on a thread supported by another vendor and said,

"Back to forcedindction.........We as NSX owners are still in the past of screwing around with superchargers. Lets face it. For the money/power, isnt it better to turbo? You sure can make tons more power, not to mention a huge selection of turbos to choose from....superchargers are no more then a waste of time and money....Keep them on the Hemi's, thats there best home."

As you might have figured out by now, I don't believe chargers or intercoolers for the twin screw chargers are a waste of time or money.


dude,

we stand by every word of this but realize why SOME nsx owners opt to sc. It is the right advice since your not the guy in CA worried about emmissions.

So will leave this without insulting each other.

Regards,
 
You gave the wrong advice in the wrong place when you came on a thread supported by another vendor and said,

You need to read more recent posts from Shad or call him. He is now using turbos on his high HP cars. The ONLY reason to run an SC is if you need SMOG compliance in Ca.
 
1. No, I am using the stock sensor with an electronic display and I did not advise anyone to use them I simply stated they were available to hook up to the OBDII port. Please read more carefully.

I normally tell people things I belive in are available.. I did read it carefully.

2. If your AEM is so good and your Paxton ran so hot, you might want to check it against Devin's sensors at AEM because his Paxton, Laminova core, and AEM sensors ran IATs 126 degrees or lower!!!!

The paxton didnt run hot dude... you could place your hand on the box all day long. You now just reffered to a box that does work and does make sence for the money... not one sanwiched inbetween a motor block and a charger. Our BBSC set up made over 390 at 8 lbs on a 3.3l... with IAT levels in line with devons. well below the horse power that a small turbo can do!

and even though it wasent a goal of Devons... our client wanted to keep his engine hatch on.. a targa hatch for that matter... and his spare up front


http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106193&highlight=stmpo

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53562
3. It is 91 degrees here today and I have pushed the car for the last hour and my temps are as follows using a laser thermometer.
Charger 202.6
Laminova core 137.8
Aluminum water tank 128.3
Intake manifold 199.0
I forgot to take one of the block but please remember the only thing connected to the heads/block are the runners. I am not using guesses or theories here, I am using 3 years of design and testing with help from,
Laminova
Opcon
Shad at Driving Ambitions
Factor X
Setrab
Pro ECM
Titanium Dave
Etc.

so why were you able read the intake temps then and now all you have is a lieing laser

Maybe your core was to open, or your water flow was to slow/fast, or your heat exchanger to small, or your water lines to small. Please don't say it is impossible because yours did not work.


again... our box wasent sanwiched in between the sc and the block... can't say it enough.. maybe we should knick name it so it's easier to type considering you have us going back to that point over and over
 
I thought we were talking about charge temps...care to offer a rebuttal.

I know very well that Shad is building turbo cars. I also know he gives respect to the design goals and attributes of many different engine configurations.

I know turbo cars can make more power than supercharged cars but some people, not just for emission problems, might still want a charger.
 
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so why were you able read the intake temps then and now all you have is a lieing laser


again... our box wasent sanwiched in between the sc and the block... can't say it enough.. maybe we should knick name it so it's easier to type considering you have us going back to that point over and over

Man....you asked for mechanical verification of my temps and I supplied them but if you want to see the picures of the HKS FCON, Camp 2 display, knock amp and wideband I use for my electronic display I will send them to you!!!

The cooler you made for the Gruppe M, were did it sit?
 
The cooler you made for the Gruppe M, were did it sit?



Only pics I could find...
Kit was as follows, 5/8 line with flowjet pump.
 

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