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Current suspension thoughts on type s vs bilstein vs kw?

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Also this one.....which are still one of my favourites
Still have them with the Procar 60mm spring system.
This is the lightest setup of suspension for NSX ever build.

View attachment 165164

tein coilovers with your specific springs were a good coilover choice? I loved that company 15-20years go but I haven’t heard much good things out of them in a while. How much did this setup weigh?
 
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tein coilovers with your specific springs were a good coilover choice? I loved that company 15-20years go but I haven’t heard much good things out of them in a while. How much did this setup weigh?

I heard that too.
I dont like the RA's (steel) or the Flex with electronic adjustable motors on it, I had all kind of these here, for repair or setup modifications for some of my german customers.

My favourite is the Tein RE (Aluminium), but from beginning , the JDM spring setup was very heavy comparing to the ultralight dampers, so that doesnt harmonize as perfect as expected.
After some drives I started to produce special cnc machined lower spring perches, which fits perfect with my 60mm HRS spring system and adapted the complete system with excessive testing of different spring rates
(Maybe 20 different springs I still have in stock)

So i was able to reduce the unsprung mass to a minimum and the handling and steering wheel response changed to superb, also high speed stability.

The complete system is into the 10 kg range (22lbs), never have seen a lighter suspension for the NSX.

Because I also protected the coilover threads and the damper pistons with flexible rubber protectors, it works till now.

My 2 TE's which I still have in my spare stock are like new and fully usable.

I cleaned them all 2 years and checked the adjustments.

Have lot of spare parts for them in stock, but never needed them......so one of my all times favourite.

I removed them, not because they are not really good, I'm always on search for something new.
Time never stopps.

Maybe one time I will sale one set.
 
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goldNSX

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Tires can vary GREATLY in terms of feel, performance, grip, size, etc.. A good read:
https://motoiq.com/how-to-properly-select-and-size-tires-for-performance/
Going to read it, thanks. Just saw that they don't list the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 3 or 5. Maybe not available in the US. It's an excellent tire like the Eagle F1 GS-D3 was back in the days.

Who builds them on demand? Who did the customization (shop and person you worked with)?

Why did you do this? Just for ease of installation?
I'm living next to Germany. KW Switzerland has a representative/shop here with a direct link to the German headquarter of KW. Every suspension is built to order (at least in Europe), that's why we have a 4-6 weeks waiting time. So, I've just asked them if they could install a rebound and the headquarter in Germany said: no problem. Extra costs: none.
Yes, just to faciliate installation and maybe to reduce the stress on the rubber bushings while the car is up in the air for longer repairs.

Droop like OEM (these are the pictures WITHOUT the 15 mm rebound):

IMG_1085.JPG

IMG_1086.JPG

Reducing rebound & droop travel can absolutely affect ride quality. Depending on who did what, and how, its possible things were changed that can explain the differences in handling and ride quality. Stiffening the LS compression does affect HS.
Limited droop is not the problem in my case as I had about the same droop with Bilsteins also.
From the KW website:
KW_valving.JPG
The forces don't change above 0.15m/s esp. in compression, maybe a little bit more in rebound. High speed is more or less preset in the KW V3.
 

goldNSX

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Gold will answer I'm sure, but I believe he had Bilstein do this directly. Their support to European customers is much better than here in the states. I was going down this road earlier on my S Zero project and it was just too hard being in the US. If I lived in Germany, I would have done what Gold and Detlef did too- a custom single adjustable Bilstein coilover built specifically for the NSX suspension geometry. There you have access to the entire library of Bilstein shocks and Bilstein themselves are willing to design and build and valve them to any spec you give them, as well as matching them to any OEM damper you wish. They did it for Detlef too. I'm jealous!

I suppose here in the states you could have a quality shop like Performance Shock Inc do the same thing with Penske or Koni dampers, but I'm not sure they could achieve the same fidelity as a major OEM like Bilstein, who can literally engineer and manufacture every single component of the system. Anyway, when my NSX-R suspension finally dies, I'll have to revisit the issue: rebuild OEM or build a "modern" system like Detlef?
It was not always easy to deal with Bilstein I've to admit, esp. from 2006 to around 2010. :) Or I was maybe not the easiest guy to deal with. :) I've started my Type S/Bilstein project back in 2006 when the choice of suspension was limited to what was available back then. Up to 2010 Mister H... at Bilstein Germany (procar knows who) was a few years before his retirement and some kind of a choleric person (some of his statements: "I can't stand seeing shocks anymore" or calling me during lunchtime asking very curiously "Where are you right now???", me: "in a restaurant", he, jealous: "For God's sake, that's where I want to be too!!!"). Some kind of funny in the retroperspective but not very purposeful either. That's why I've sent them to Bilstein US for some years too. Good service. From 2014 on that I've sent them to Bilstein Gemany again, just because it was nearer, they spoke the same language and Mister H... was retired definitely. Two younger engineers who overtook it are very good and helpful. Mister H... was in his "well deserved retirement", LOL. Finally. Good news. :D
Those two engineers at Bilstein in Germany were very helpful. But it IS a ridge walk to find the sweet spot and that sweet spot IS individually as each person has its own preferences. It's an extensive trial and error task. In the front we've found it from the start but in the rear it got very difficult and after some attempts (3 or 4) I left it where it was. I'd say we've reached about 90%, so it didn't need much but valving a shock is unlike creating an Excel graph where you could do everything. Dealing with the shock valving is always a compromise and selecting the shims to reach -+10% here and there is a complicated task for the engineer. +10% at one velocity means doing the shock all over again just to guarranty that all other data points remain constant. While measuring you always have a tolerance of +-10%. In the end they could not do it at the usual costs of $100 per shock (fully understandable to me). A new valving with that slight changes would have been a so-called 'prototype project' at higher costs ($1000 or so).

From these experiences over the last 14 years and I'm no professional and still learning about it and there are people with much more expericence out there ALL I CAN SAY is that todays choice of adjustable coil-overs is wide enough to find the right setup without going the route of revalving. If the basic setup is good a small turn on the dialing wheel is much faster than revalving shocks. That's why I'd still recommend the KW V3. You don't have to mess with highspeed valving as it's preset but can tune it (the lowspeed) to your preferences. A desireable thing to have are separatly adjustable bump and rebound.

The Bilstein shock is very durable but KW overtook Bilstein a few years ago as they have a much wider range than Bilstein. I also think that KW is much more innovative than Bilstein.

Definitly wrote much more than initially intended. :)
 
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well, its surely right that KW is more present at the market for aftermarket suspensions and maybe also at the race track.
Finally its also a price question, Bilstein is more expensive.


Since many years I spend 11 weekends per year at the endurance races at the Nordschleife.
I have full access to the pits, so I'm always very near.
Its a big inspiration for me to watch many technical details and speak with the mechanics, so I learnt and saw a lot during the years.
Carside there is a range between smaller production cars (Group N) til newest GT3 weapons.
Its right that the most race teams uses KW, they send some of their engineers incl. support truck to all races,but Bilstein is also very present. (with a very modern Service truck ) :smile:

If I remember back to year 2002-2006, Honda Racing Europe decided start an projekt together with german sport Auto Magazine an the NA2 NSX-R.
From the beginning I was involved and also the suspension theme was a big one, maybe the most important part for the Nordschleife.

As you can see from the pictures I posted, we had both brands, KW's last competition spec and a special Bilstein suspension at the start.
Professional drivers from germany and also from japan tested both brands during the test sessions with all kind of adjustments through the engineers.

Finally the Bilsteins made the race and Honda decided to order some suspensions.

Since that time, I'm a big fan from that brand, and I remember that after the race, they still were in good condition.

Thats my experience I made from racing side, but time changed.

I'm superhappy with my actual setup, but as goldnsx wrote, you also cant go wrong with a KW.
 
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