Difficult to engage 1st & 2nd Gear

[pzull]

I installed new exhaust headers and mufflers yesterday and this morning after 5 mins of spirited driving, 1st and 2nd gear are difficult to engage.

I have to slam and hold the gearstick into 1st and 2nd otherwise it would grind the gears. With 2nd engaged per the above method, stepping and releasing the accelerator quickly would cause the gear stick to snap to and fro like its was trying to get out of gear.

During the installation of the headers, a bottom brace (or what looks like one) had to be taken off to facilitate access to the front headers.

Did the exhaust installation cause this (ie. they screwed something up in the process) or is this a prelude to snap ring failure? My car is a 1992 mannual.

BTW the exhaust sounds fantastic and the engine is so much more free revving but that's another thread. I'm quite sure some here will be quite thrilled to hear the sound - it's custom made in an exhaust factory (they OEM for some Japanese aftermarket brands), designed on autocad with great attention to getting equal lengths on primaries and secondaries as well as pipe sizes calculated based on NSX engine. I would like to record the sound but need to know if I should do it with transmission in current state.

Thanks in advance.

 

[nsxtasy]

With 2nd engaged per the above method, stepping and releasing the accelerator quickly would cause the gear stick to snap to and fro like its was trying to get out of gear.

Sounds like a snap ring failure that has nothing to do with the header and exhaust.

Don't drive the car. Take it to a qualified transmission specialist. If the snap ring has failed, have him replace the snap ring and the upper transmission case.

 

[Briank]

Sounds like a snap ring failure.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Reference/tsb/93-010.htm

You need to stop driving the car now!!

 

[pzull]

Sounds like a snap ring failure that has nothing to do with the header and exhaust.

Don't drive the car. Take it to a qualified transmission specialist. If the snap ring has failed, have him replace the snap ring and the upper transmission case.

I was hoping you were going to reply. Thanks!
I'm new in town so don't know any transmission specialist so I'll take it to Honda even though I'm hesitant because of past experiences.

Would they be able to diagnose the problem without dismantaling the transmission?

Would this be a good time to consider upgraded clutch and/or light-weight fkywheel? If so what would you recommend? This car is only for weekend long drives and recreational track only.

 

[pzull]

Sounds like a snap ring failure.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Reference/tsb/93-010.htm

You need to stop driving the car now!!

Wow, looks serious. I hope Honda dealership can handle it - I had to instruct them on how to rectify the steering column that previously had sideways movement (I quoted the solution from the threads here - they first said I needed to replace the whole steering column)

This car is giving me so much problems in the few months of ownership that I think I bought a lemon - which is great as it gives me a chance to upgrade everything without feeling guilty - but if I knew before, I would've ask for a better price.

Thanks guys, guess I'll be giving the honda dealership a chance to gain more hands-on experience on my NSX

 

[nsxtasy]

Would they be able to diagnose the problem without dismantaling the transmission?

Probably not.

Would this be a good time to consider upgraded clutch and/or light-weight fkywheel? If so what would you recommend?

Yes, if you are considering doing these, then this would be the time to do it, so they only open the transmission once.

I don't have any specific recommendations. (Personally, I like the feel of the stock clutch and flywheel.) But if you're interested in considering other options, I'm sure you can find information about them in the Performance section of the FAQ and by doing a search.

 

[Barn Man]

Did you take the shifter cables loose when you removed the front lower beam? If so, you may have an issue there. It just seems strange that the car was fine before you installed the headers. This is the only thing that could possibly cause an issue due to installation of the headers. The snap ring may be the issue, but the timing makes it look unlikely in this situation. It wouldn't hurt to double check the cables.....plus it's free!
Barney

 

[nsxtasy]

Listen to Barn Man. He knows more about this stuff than I do!

 

[pzull]

Did you take the shifter cables loose when you removed the front lower beam? If so, you may have an issue there. It just seems strange that the car was fine before you installed the headers. This is the only thing that could possibly cause an issue due to installation of the headers. The snap ring may be the issue, but the timing makes it look unlikely in this situation. It wouldn't hurt to double check the cables.....plus it's free!
Barney

They exhaust factory had alot of problem getting to the front header and started unbolting what seemed to be everything that was in the way (it's their first time with an NSX). What do the shifter cables look like and why should they be loose once he's put the front lower beam back and there was no excess bolts left over after he was done?

Car seemed to be fine during the 50 mile drive back home after installation (but then it was high gear high speed driving). This morning when warming up the car in slow drive nothing happened. When I floored it a couple of times in 1st and 2nd then came to traffic and driving slowly did I notice the problem....all in less than 10mins of driving all-in. No problems with 3rd gear up. Are there separate cables for each gear?

 

[NSX-Racer]

Not very likely coincidence but maybe worth a check: Do you have also problems engaging the reverse gear? Is it easier to put the gears in when the engine is off? If all this is the case it could also be that the clutch doesn't disengage as it should (you said it happens when you pushed the car - this problem usualy is greater when the clutch is hot). That would indicate a worn clutch or a problem with the clutch disengagement (cylinder, lines, throw out bearing?).

 

[pzull]

Not very likely coincidence but maybe worth a check: Do you have also problems engaging the reverse gear? Is it easier to put the gears in when the engine is off? If all this is the case it could also be that the clutch doesn't disengage as it should (you said it happens when you pushed the car - this problem usualy is greater when the clutch is hot). That would indicate a worn clutch or a problem with the clutch disengagement (cylinder, lines, throw out bearing?).

No problems with reverse. It's not that it's difficult to slot in the gear but for 1st & 2nd I have to slam it in and hold it in position otherwise when I release the clutch, the gears would grind. In 2nd while moving with gear engaged properly, the gear stick would kick in one direction when accelerating (even gently) and kick in the other direction when I release the accelerator. Movement of gearstick is about an inch

I doubt the clutch would have gotten real hot as most part of the 10 min drive was slow. I did 2 sequences of fast 1st and 2nd gear runs....that's it.

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Yes, you can diagnose this without pulling the trans. If you go to the on-line service manual page 13-12 you can see in the lower left picture, there is a 36mm sealing bolt. You can access the snapring and check it. Typically you will find one tang missing and then a few pieces in the bottom of the access area.

If you jack the car up ONLY on the drivers side, remove the left rear wheel, you can get to this without much trans oil running out. Once you do this you can eliminate the guess work as to the snapring.

The fact it does not have an issue with reverse really does sound like a snapring. Also since it was fine for 50 miles, I cannot see how the header install did it. Probably the snapring has been broken and now it dislodged itself and the countershaft is floating.

I would say you will be removing the trans soon

HTH,
LarryB

 

[comquat1]

I've got a thread on here somewhere with pics of my snap ring after removing the 36mm bolt. Look through my previous posts, it'll be from around june/july 2004. If it looks like my pics you have an issue.

 

[NSXTech]

If you can get under the car, CAREFULLY, the cables Barn Dude refers to are very easy to check and you do have to loosen them to get the front beam out which is removed for E-Z header installation.
The (2) shifter cables are bracketed with small u-clamps to an 'H' looking bracket which is half bolted to the front engine support beam (the only large grey painted member under there), and half bolted to the body. If the bolts were left loose, you may have not noticed, but after driving, if even one fell out, you would have the problem you have.

But, it does sound like a snap ring failure. Don't drive it untill you know.

HTH,
MB

 

[pzull]

Thanks guys!

Will flatbed it to a nearby garage to make the checks then decide what to do. Damn! and I got my 1st trackday in this country coming up in 2 weeks. Hope parts can be shipped and job done before that.

BTW, can I assume no run-in period is necessary for snap ring replacement?

 

[pzull]

Got a call from my mechanic. It's beyond my wildest fears. He says (through a translator) the snap ring snapped and the bearing is gone. Also said something about it may be too late to cut it off (translator couldn't do any better in making me understand). Probably need to replace transmission is my guess.

Any ideas if transmission can be saved or parts I need to order? Where is best place to buy the parts given that I'm in Asia?

If the entire transmission needs to be replaced, should I go with later model 6-speed or spec a close ratio box?

Thanks

 

[Larry Bastanza]

pzull,

You ask a difficult question without seeing the trans condition. I am sure they can get the case off. To be safe this will require a complete disassembly of the shafts to inspect for any metal filings, then rebuild it with a new trans case, seals, snap ring, a few bearings etc. But before I could even attempt to give a parts list I would need to see a pic (probably many) to determine what is actually screwed up.

In your situation it might be cost effective to just purchase an entire used 5 speed, or if you want to invest more, a 6 speed. For a 6 speed conversion you will need some additional items, like a reverse lock out module to name one. This will also require a clutch update to either aftermarket or 6 speed clutch.

If your clutch is OK with low mileage I would think a replacement 5 speed not in the snapring range, or previously repaired would be the way to go, unless money is no object.

I am sure MarkB will add some additional points shortly.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[nsxhk]

If you hear from Mark B, tell him that I'm still waiting for his reply on buying a rebuilt tranny

Thnx

Henry.

 

[pzull]

pzull,

You ask a difficult question without seeing the trans condition. I am sure they can get the case off. To be safe this will require a complete disassembly of the shafts to inspect for any metal filings, then rebuild it with a new trans case, seals, snap ring, a few bearings etc. But before I could even attempt to give a parts list I would need to see a pic (probably many) to determine what is actually screwed up.

In your situation it might be cost effective to just purchase an entire used 5 speed, or if you want to invest more, a 6 speed. For a 6 speed conversion you will need some additional items, like a reverse lock out module to name one. This will also require a clutch update to either aftermarket or 6 speed clutch.

If your clutch is OK with low mileage I would think a replacement 5 speed not in the snapring range, or previously repaired would be the way to go, unless money is no object.

I am sure MarkB will add some additional points shortly.

HTH,
LarryB

Larry, as you can see from the pic the snap ring has totally disintegrated. Gears look fine. My mech will be giving me a list of required parts for the tranny rebuild. Do you sell such parts?

Clutch is still OK but not much life left so I'll be replacing the friction plates.

Mech is not willing to do conversion into 6 speed as he has lots of work at hand so I'll still to a rebuild

 

[Larry Bastanza]

No, I do not sell parts.

I would e-mail JR at [email protected] with your parts list, see what he can do. It is best if you order by part number if you have the resources to do so.

You can go to www.acuraparts247.com to investigate parts/numbers

HTH,
LarryB

 

[NSXTech]

I may be way off base here, but it appears to me that someone has taken a cutting torch to that tranny. The sintered look of the bearing indicates an attempt at something *like* a repair, or worse. Though in and of itself this is not a disaster, it does portend ominous possibilities. Larry is right, a good used trans might be in order if you can locate one.
At the very least, your tech will have to cut the case open. If you look at the pictures in the snap ring FAQ, there is a piece of the case which was cut away precisely for the purpose of realesing a hopelessly stuck bearing. It is coincidence that it was also a really good demonstration piece. I had to cut this case off to save the rest of the tranny, but it was a noble piece. Maybe you can show this photo to your tech.

Good Luck,
MB

 

[pzull]

I may be way off base here, but it appears to me that someone has taken a cutting torch to that tranny. The sintered look of the bearing indicates an attempt at something *like* a repair, or worse. Though in and of itself this is not a disaster, it does portend ominous possibilities. Larry is right, a good used trans might be in order if you can locate one.
At the very least, your tech will have to cut the case open. If you look at the pictures in the snap ring FAQ, there is a piece of the case which was cut away precisely for the purpose of realesing a hopelessly stuck bearing. It is coincidence that it was also a really good demonstration piece. I had to cut this case off to save the rest of the tranny, but it was a noble piece. Maybe you can show this photo to your tech.

Good Luck,
MB

Yep, he's done just that. Now I await the list of parts required by him.