Do you understand the meaning of this quote?

[TURBO2GO]

I am just wondering how many people can understand this quote. What do you think it means?

"The illiterate man is simply ignorant; the learned man is learnedly ignorant; and the Sage is also ignorant... because there is nothing for him to know."

 

[ThaIronChef]

That's a very interesting quote. The first and third examples of the quote seem fairly straight forward. "The illiterate man is simply ignorant" could imply several meanings, depending on how you choose to interpret the word "simply". It could mean simple as in simple-minded (ie. not very intelligent), or it could mean simple as in not very complex. An illiterate man could lead a far simpler life than someone who is well educated. At least, that might have been true in the context of when that quote was first written. Those were the two prominent examples that jump to mind.

The end of the quote, "and the Sage is also ignorant... because there is nothing for him to know" is the most straight forward to me. With alleged Sage-like wisdom, there truly is nothing else for you to know. If you have convinced yourself that you know everything, your mind will be shut off from pursuing more knowledge (or even correcting the false knowledge that you supposedly have already). This is the most ignorant of them all. It presents an interesting conundrum to the (pseudo)intellectuals out there. To claim to know everything is an indication that wisdom has not yet taken hold in that person's life.

The middle of the quote "the learned man is learnedly ignorant" is somewhat of a non sequitur in my opinion. Unless the author is trying to imply, quite paradoxically, that the more you learn the more ignorant you become. Unless he (the author) is attempting to describe the somewhat abstract thought of the more we learn, the more we THINK we know. However, while I agree with that line of reasoning to an extent, it is a bit of a cop-out in my opinion. All knowledge is self knowledge. The more we know the less ignorant we are of our past mistakes. This helps us prepare (and hopefully avoid) our future mistakes. And when you think about it, not screwing up is really the primary objective in life anyway.

Anyway, that was my take on it. But what do I know, I'm just a pseudo-intellectual anway. :redface: Perhaps by even attempting to explain the quote you yourself have just fallen victim to its generalizations. Or maybe I'm just giving the author too much credit.

 

[docjohn]

exactly,you can never know everthing,ie there is always something you do not know.

 

[gdae]

I skimmed it too fast and thought you were putting down Sarge.

 

[larrynsx]

I skimmed it too fast and thought you were putting down Sarge.

LOL...I'm right about to say that.

 

[ETLMD]

exactly,you can never know everthing,ie there is always something you do not know.

"The more you learn the more you realize how little you know."

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: We're done

Man, you guys dispensed with this deep subject and threw in the humor as well. And the spelling was pretty good too. Nicely done. :wink: I guess we're all sages, especially since we can't all be Sarges.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Ironchef thanks for your input. I asked this only because it is very clear to me what is meant by it, but that is because I have for years had the influence of teachers from the far east. This quote is very difficult for most people in the west to decipher, because there is a fundamental difference in belief between ancient eastern philosophy, and western philosophy.

The meaning here is fairly simple:

The illiterate man is simply ignorant.
As you don't know, you are ignorant.

The learned man is learnedly ignorant.
you are still ignorant, but in a different way.

the Sage is also ignorant... because there is nothing for him to know
This is the unusual one, at least for people that have been raised with traditional western culture. The ultimate "knowing" in all of Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and Zen, is the state of enlightenment. The "Sage" is the master that has found enlightenment. In that state, the mind is ultimately silent. It is a state beyond thought. Knowledge, is a product of the mind. The Sage has gone beyond thought, and so "There is nothing for him to know". He is in "emptiness", the principle of Buddhism. There is nothing, or NO THING.... as "things" only exist as they are perceived by the human mind.

What do you think now that you have heard this explanation? I am curious.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

What do you think now that you have heard this explanation? I am curious.

I think you got a blown head gasket.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I think you got a blown head gasket.

Didn't we limit your permission to post to the big subwoofer section? what are you doing here? This talk is for adults.

 

[Malibu Rapper]

Didn't we limit your permission to post to the big subwoofer section? what are you doing here? This talk is for adults.

You misspelled fundamental and it's annoying the hell out of me.

 

[ThaIronChef]

Wow, I completely misunderstood what was trying to be conveyed in that quote. To be honest, I have only a very basic understanding of Buddhism and other eastern religious ideals. However, now that you have explained it to me I understand what the message is. Or at least I understand the concept. I was familiar with this aspect of Buddhism before, but it still is very hard for me to comprehend. To reach "enlightenment" is indeed a lofty goal, one I would never hope to reach. To be completely clear of mind is MUCH harder than it sounds. Even if I were to put my mind to it, as it were, I don't believe I would ever reach such a level of emptiness.

As you stated before though, eastern and western philosophies are fundamentally very different in a lot of ways. I was attempting to explain things from a very western view point. I missed the big picture by trying to overanalyze it. Thank you for your explanation Turbo2Go. It seems I have a lot to learn (or unlearn) about my perception of Buddhism.

 

[KooLaid]

ignorant = not knowing

 

[BD]

The illiterate man is simply ignorant.
As you don't know, you are ignorant.

The learned man is learnedly ignorant.
you are still ignorant, but in a different way.

the Sage is also ignorant... because there is nothing for him to know
This is the unusual one, at least for people that have been raised with traditional western culture. The ultimate "knowing" in all of Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and Zen, is the state of enlightenment. The "Sage" is the master that has found enlightenment. In that state, the mind is ultimately silent. It is a state beyond thought. Knowledge, is a product of the mind. The Sage has gone beyond thought, and so "There is nothing for him to know". He is in "emptiness", the principle of Buddhism. There is nothing, or NO THING.... as "things" only exist as they are perceived by the human mind.
.

This is more of a stereotype.

First, they are ignorant because they are illiterate; AKA, they are not educated. Some uneducated people like to tap into issues they just not up for it.

Second, they are ignorant because they are educated, or they are not properly educated. I like this one because many of our current elite university system only teach what they want to teach. Just look at the Obama college rallies, majority of those kids will cheer for him but couldn't answer a simple question of "What Obama" stands for - Other than he give a good speech or his is cool." Their stubbornness is without reason or cause, directed by people with personal agendas.

Third, many people under the enlightenment program cannot separate truth from reality. I believe certain aspect of religion is good due to the moral ethics it teaches, but some of the beholders like to for their believe down people's throat. "One man's trash is another man's treasure." Some people can actually can grasp that concept. For example, "my God is better than your God, if you don't like my God, I'll kill you for your ignorance."

 

[Cairo94507]

"The more you learn the more you realize how little you know."

Ding Ding Ding!

 

[myguitar]

Call me ignorant, but I think I've read this quote in a fortune cookie once! :tongue::biggrin:

 

[TURBO2GO]

Vance this quote has nothing to do with religion or Obama rallies.

 

[TURBO2GO]

It seems I have a lot to learn (or unlearn) about my perception of Buddhism.

Even most Buddhists do not grasp the concept of what the Buddha was trying to convey.

The easiest path, is to take away the concept of time from your mind. You can never "achieve" or "reach" enlightenment, because that is the mind's way as it seeks something through time. My teacher would say "you are here already". The reason you do not feel you are here, and see a difference between "here" and "there" is because your mind is making too much noise. If you learn to quiet your mind, you are left with your natural, enlightened state of being. If your attention is always in the present moment and nowhere else, you are walking away from time... the mind-made concept that keeps you from your natural, enlightened state.

 

[BD]

Vance this quote has nothing to do with religion or Obama rallies.

The quote is not event specific; I just used the events as examples.

 

[steveny]

"The more you learn the more you realize how little you know."

or

the more you know...the more you know you need to know.

At least that is what my buddy Gus says. He is one wicked smart owner of his own electrical contracting company.

As for the original quote it just proves that Sarge is one really smart dude, smart ass dude anyways.

 

[steveny]

Didn't we limit your permission to post to the big subwoofer section? what are you doing here? This talk is for adults.

I thought he was going to be allowed over in the big ass wing section too?

 

[docjohn]

Ok let me meditate on this for a few years,eat and drink very little,and I'll get back to ya.:wink:

 

[Vega$ NSX]

How about this quote?

"The illiterate man is simply ignorant; the learned man is learnedly ignorant, but the man who thinks there is only one correct answer to a question or one meaning to a statement is truly ignorant."

:tongue:

 

[ChongLee]

The meaning here is fairly simple:

The illiterate man is simply ignorant.
As you don't know, you are ignorant.

The learned man is learnedly ignorant.
you are still ignorant, but in a different way.

the Sage is also ignorant... because there is nothing for him to know
This is the unusual one, at least for people that have been raised with traditional western culture. The ultimate "knowing" in all of Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, and Zen, is the state of enlightenment. The "Sage" is the master that has found enlightenment. In that state, the mind is ultimately silent. It is a state beyond thought. Knowledge, is a product of the mind. The Sage has gone beyond thought, and so "There is nothing for him to know". He is in "emptiness", the principle of Buddhism. There is nothing, or NO THING.... as "things" only exist as they are perceived by the human mind.

What do you think now that you have heard this explanation? I am curious.

- One in lack of self-realization

- One being the captive of the conceptualization

- One detached from perception

 

[ChongLee]

How about this quote?

"The illiterate man is simply ignorant; the learned man is learnedly ignorant, but the man who thinks there is only one correct answer to a question or one meaning to a statement is truly ignorant."

:tongue:

Ah, but what of mathematical situations?

- Ah, but no math nor science have ever defined Zen.