Hi there, just wonering do the nsxs have LSD?
thanks..
thanks..
does nsx have lsd?
- Thread starter nsx300
- Start date
Mine does and it occassionally leads to bad flashbacks from the previous owner.:biggrin:
apapada said:
Hmmm....well, that has me wondering. I recall pulling out to make a left turn and having to get on the power in a quick hurry and ONLY my inside wheel spinning...any idea why both did not?
sometimes when driving it makes me seem like i'm on it
- Joined
- 27 June 2003
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Meeyatch1 said:Hmmm....well, that has me wondering. I recall pulling out to make a left turn and having to get on the power in a quick hurry and ONLY my inside wheel spinning...any idea why both did not?
Do you drive with the TCS off ? Because under no circumstance you should have any significant wheel slippage with it ON abyway. Are you sure that you felt the inside wheel spin?
apapada said:
true. or perhaps it was a clutch slip and it felt like your inner wheels spun out?
LOLDa Hapa said:
I was offered some pot from a skiier in Tahoe on the ski lift.
I politely declined.
Pot and snowboarding do not combine.
apapada said:
I usually have the TCS turned off...yes, it was the inside wheel spinning.
amgnsx said:true. or perhaps it was a clutch slip and it felt like your inner wheels spun out?
No...I know what a slipping clutch feels like.
Da Hapa said:
LMAO....
I have no recollection of those events...
Is there any way you can get somebody(s) to look at both sides, chalk a white stripe on the tyres to see if you actually were spinning only one?
How many kms on your car? High? (ok, pun not intended…)
See, my driveway slopes gently upward to drive out. It’s about 25 metres long. When there is snow on it like now (we get about ½” to 1” of wet snow), I have to get a running start if I hope to have any chance of making it.
Many times I have to ask my wife to pull me up with her little Daihatsu 1 litre front wheel drive 3 cylinder econo box. I never hear the end of her laughing. :redface:
I was sure it was spinning one wheel until I actually climbed out of the car while it was just sitting there spinning its wheels at idle. BOTH wheels were spinning! It was in third gear by that time.
I tried in first gear. Same thing, you can go in and get a coffee while it’s pathetically trying to melt a hole in 1mm of snow. When you come out, it’s still there impotently spinning its wheels.
The tyres are S03, new with deep tread. But hopeless.
So I threw some fresh gravel under one of the tyres (the driveway is gravel too) to see if the thing would friggin do something, I was late for work and pissed off, one wheel gripped finally and the car lurched forwards about 1 inch, the other tyre was spinning too while this happened so the LSD diff DOES work. Just doesn’t have the same effect as a jeep. Must be the tyres.
I have not done a burn out on a dry road to see if there are two black stripes or one, but that would be a definitive test for you, don’t you think?
So I concluded that my tyres are too wide (stock 16” rear wheels and tyres) to work on snow. Same thing happens on grass except I didn’t get any coffee that time, just laughed at.
At first I though my diff wasn’t functioning or very soft, there is even a thread on here about it somewhere. But both are spinning, I saw with my own eyes.
Even though the engine is over the driving wheels, it’s hopeless. Everybody will pass you in the snow or on the grass.
There is one Canadian who wrote a very good article on Prime about driving the NSX in the snow, sorry I forget his name, but he used snow tyres. I believe that makes all the difference. I presume his diff worked. Maybe not…
I also understand (thread on nsxcb.co.uk , I think) that the diff is set very soft so it doesn’t wear out or need to be adjusted often.
We discussed getting Quaife to make one for the NSX but the volume would be so low, we would have to charge €3000 each just to cover. Pity because I have had good luck with Quaife diffs before on other cars. They never need adjustment.
The alternatives are on SOS or Dali, but they are plate types and will need readjusting after a while. If I were going to do that, I’d just leave the stock plate tape diff in there and put stronger springs it. Cheaper, same effect, no?
Still have to open the box though.
So maybe you where spinning both tyres, but didn’t realise it, it still slipped. The car is very stable even when spinning both. Or maybe your diff is real soft and worn with high kms.
I presume you are even more confused now than before you started reading this.
So am I. Maybe I should cool it with the LSD. :smile:
How many kms on your car? High? (ok, pun not intended…)
See, my driveway slopes gently upward to drive out. It’s about 25 metres long. When there is snow on it like now (we get about ½” to 1” of wet snow), I have to get a running start if I hope to have any chance of making it.
Many times I have to ask my wife to pull me up with her little Daihatsu 1 litre front wheel drive 3 cylinder econo box. I never hear the end of her laughing. :redface:
I was sure it was spinning one wheel until I actually climbed out of the car while it was just sitting there spinning its wheels at idle. BOTH wheels were spinning! It was in third gear by that time.
I tried in first gear. Same thing, you can go in and get a coffee while it’s pathetically trying to melt a hole in 1mm of snow. When you come out, it’s still there impotently spinning its wheels.
The tyres are S03, new with deep tread. But hopeless.
So I threw some fresh gravel under one of the tyres (the driveway is gravel too) to see if the thing would friggin do something, I was late for work and pissed off, one wheel gripped finally and the car lurched forwards about 1 inch, the other tyre was spinning too while this happened so the LSD diff DOES work. Just doesn’t have the same effect as a jeep. Must be the tyres.
I have not done a burn out on a dry road to see if there are two black stripes or one, but that would be a definitive test for you, don’t you think?
So I concluded that my tyres are too wide (stock 16” rear wheels and tyres) to work on snow. Same thing happens on grass except I didn’t get any coffee that time, just laughed at.
At first I though my diff wasn’t functioning or very soft, there is even a thread on here about it somewhere. But both are spinning, I saw with my own eyes.
Even though the engine is over the driving wheels, it’s hopeless. Everybody will pass you in the snow or on the grass.
There is one Canadian who wrote a very good article on Prime about driving the NSX in the snow, sorry I forget his name, but he used snow tyres. I believe that makes all the difference. I presume his diff worked. Maybe not…
I also understand (thread on nsxcb.co.uk , I think) that the diff is set very soft so it doesn’t wear out or need to be adjusted often.
We discussed getting Quaife to make one for the NSX but the volume would be so low, we would have to charge €3000 each just to cover. Pity because I have had good luck with Quaife diffs before on other cars. They never need adjustment.
The alternatives are on SOS or Dali, but they are plate types and will need readjusting after a while. If I were going to do that, I’d just leave the stock plate tape diff in there and put stronger springs it. Cheaper, same effect, no?
Still have to open the box though.
So maybe you where spinning both tyres, but didn’t realise it, it still slipped. The car is very stable even when spinning both. Or maybe your diff is real soft and worn with high kms.
I presume you are even more confused now than before you started reading this.
So am I. Maybe I should cool it with the LSD. :smile:
just found this
"The other advantage the 6-speed has over the 5-speed is the Differential. The 5- speed has an adjustable limited slip, that needs to be adjusted very high to put the power to the pavement. Unfortunately because of trans temps (Up to 450 degrees), the high clutch pressure set at the beginning of a race compared to the measurement at the end of a race is usually half. In addition, the high clutch pressure is not good for the turns. The 6-speed has a helical differential, that helically puts more pressure on the clutches as you put the power down. The benefit is that you can set the clutch pressure less then stock for great cornering, and when the car has traction off the corner the horsepower will push the clutches tighter then you can adjust the 5-speed. The best of both worlds. ..."
from chapter 16 in :
http://www.dalmotorsports.com/cars.asp#Suspension
Thanks, Rob, for putting all the info together. Respect.
Peter
"The other advantage the 6-speed has over the 5-speed is the Differential. The 5- speed has an adjustable limited slip, that needs to be adjusted very high to put the power to the pavement. Unfortunately because of trans temps (Up to 450 degrees), the high clutch pressure set at the beginning of a race compared to the measurement at the end of a race is usually half. In addition, the high clutch pressure is not good for the turns. The 6-speed has a helical differential, that helically puts more pressure on the clutches as you put the power down. The benefit is that you can set the clutch pressure less then stock for great cornering, and when the car has traction off the corner the horsepower will push the clutches tighter then you can adjust the 5-speed. The best of both worlds. ..."
from chapter 16 in :
http://www.dalmotorsports.com/cars.asp#Suspension
Thanks, Rob, for putting all the info together. Respect.
Peter
I just had my 99 at the track. It was definately spinning just the inside tire coming out of some of the tighter turns. The car is on the stock suspension, so is leaning considerably, taking the weight off the inside tire. The differential is working for sure going straight.
Ok, I'm tripping hard!
I was late driving into work this morning and had to make a U-turn. I decided to turn off the TCS, and whip this baby around. But only my inside turn spin out, so I couldn't get the back end to whip around. I was smoking the inside tire when I looked back to see. Even when I straightened out only the one tire was spinning. I have 50K miles on my car now. Bad LSD? Bad trip?
I was late driving into work this morning and had to make a U-turn. I decided to turn off the TCS, and whip this baby around. But only my inside turn spin out, so I couldn't get the back end to whip around. I was smoking the inside tire when I looked back to see. Even when I straightened out only the one tire was spinning. I have 50K miles on my car now. Bad LSD? Bad trip?
Whatwasthat said:
Nope, just an clutched plate type differential.
Meeyatch1 said:
Me too
I also know how it feels to put it in gear, rev, and go nowhere 'cuz your clutch isn't slipping anymore, it's just gone... :frown: Doesn't sound like this is the prob in this instance.
NSX Status said:
Umm, a bit inappropriate on this board, my friend
710 said:
Pete, I am not normally prone to episodes of ESP... But I have had this vision... I see a 4WD in your future mate... :biggrin:
So the consensus if that the majority of NSX diffs are now (after some amount of miles) non functional.
Pity because an LSD transforms the way the car handles. LSD is, um, I mean are, FUN!
This type of differential needs constant adjustment (replace the springs with stronger ones or replace plates) to compensate for the wear.
Should I talk to Quaife again about getting some better diffs made?
Quaife’s diffs never require adjustment. Easy to make two black strips on the road with those. Plus they are very good in traffic, turning sharp etc, they don’t lock in those situations. No tyre wear.
We need to be sure to sell about 100 to have some security on our investment. It’s a big risk for me because if I don’t sell many, I lose a lot of money…
There is almost no profit in there at those quantities.
Pity because an LSD transforms the way the car handles. LSD is, um, I mean are, FUN!
Mitch is right.DutchBlackNsx said:
This type of differential needs constant adjustment (replace the springs with stronger ones or replace plates) to compensate for the wear.
Should I talk to Quaife again about getting some better diffs made?
Quaife’s diffs never require adjustment. Easy to make two black strips on the road with those. Plus they are very good in traffic, turning sharp etc, they don’t lock in those situations. No tyre wear.
We need to be sure to sell about 100 to have some security on our investment. It’s a big risk for me because if I don’t sell many, I lose a lot of money…
There is almost no profit in there at those quantities.
So for 97+ this adjustment is not an issue right?
If it's a clutch type diff, it will wear.timothyaw said:
All NSXes have a clutch type diff. That's the problem. They wear quickly, the factory sets them to super soft to live longer but then they are super soft and don’t limit the slip.
The later NSX diffs had a slightly different way of pressing the diff clutch plates together, so to speak. Better, more gradual, more positive engagement, but still a wearing action, so they still wear out exactly the same as the older models. Sorry Tim.
The Quaife diff is a variety of the “torsen” diff. It has gears inside and no wearing parts like clutch plates. Never need to adjust it.
It will never lock so it is good for a street car because when you turn a sharp corner like in a parking lot it won’t scrub a tyre, it just goes nicely around.
That’s why many manufacturers of street cars are using it now.
To explain it very simply, the torsen type diff, including Quaife’s, uses the principle of a worm gear. Kind of. No friction plates.
A worm gear can only turn another gear, it cannot be turned by another gear.
Can only work one way.
So that means when one tyre has less grip, it begins to turn more but since a worm gear can’t be turned, it transfers its turning forces to the whole diff casing which results in turning the other wheel with more grip. Just what we want.
I will lay down two strips of rubber though, so it’s doing its job.
It’s really nice an stable and smooth. When you accelerate hard and spin both wheels, around a corner for example, it is nice and smooth and predictable. Good to impress your friends with because it’s effortless. Your car doesn’t jerk around as grip is regained on one wheel or the other.
The torsen type LSD was too new when Honda made the NSX, the only practical solution was our type (wearing plates). Pity.
The Quaife one is slightly different to the original torsen (torque-sensing) diff.
The patents on the Quaife and the original ones have run out now. China is making some now.
When I contacted Quaife last time, they said if I could give them an NSX diff (new or old type) they could see which of their existing diff was the closest. If they had one really close, it would drastically reduce the cost for us for the NSX. They said they probably have a similar one because they have lots.
If no existing diff is close, they would have to make a new one from scratch. More money.
If someone could ship their old diff to me (or direct to Quaife in the UK) we could at least see if it’s going to be easy or hard, cheap or expensive.
Quaife USA will just ask Quaife UK to do it, then raise the price.
