Factor X Upraded CTSC, AEM, 440cc...

Factor X Motorsports

Factor X Motorsports

Experienced Member
Joined
19 March 2002
Messages
1,117
Location
In a big building with many toys
We just completed re-tuning a Comptech Supercharged NSX with the AEM EMS, 440cc injectors, and an upgraded pulley. We did not perform the initial installation or tune but these were the baseline numbers as recorded on our Dynapacks in Las Vegas. Prior to the upgrade the NSX also had Comptech Headers and Exhaust installed. Drivability, idle, and start-up has been excellent.

Baseline: 312rwhp / 218ftlbs @4.5psi

Factor X Upgraded: 359rwhp / 253ftlbs @6.5psi

Net gains equate to: +47rwhp / +35ftlbs
 
Very interesting. Why was the original car only running 4.5 psi? Isn't the standard kit supposed to make around 6?

Also, did the tuning increase low end TQ and high end power?
 
Syonara said:
Nice work, you guys sure are hard to get a hold of.

Mike owes me a phone call still :D
Click to expand...

We apologize for any delay, we have completely switched over all of our services. During the change over we encounted some issues with our network. Please give us a ring or send us an email and Mike will get back to you ASAP. Thanks for the patience!
 
How much money did you charge to get 47 more hp? Tuning charge? AEM?
What size pulley(boost wise)?
It seems that the easiest 50 horses would come for a 50 shot/wet? Seems to be pretty reliablable on my friend's CTSC w/ 9lb. He hasnt added any kind of fuel managment other than the FMU that comptech supplies w/ the kit and the injectors that come with the 9lb kit.
Just curious.
 
emvanderpol said:
Take a look at this.

http://northwest.nsxca.org/mikedyno.html

It looks like a 1 psi increase equal about 20 hp/tq. In the low boost he was getting 6.4 psi, and high was 7.3 psi. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder, what effects a slightly smaller say 1-2mm would do?

Anyone running a smaller Pulley leaving everything as it comes.
Would the injectors, in that case need to be larger? Fuel rail?
Larger fuel pump?
Len
 
emvanderpol said:
Take a look at this.

http://northwest.nsxca.org/mikedyno.html

It looks like a 1 psi increase equal about 20 hp/tq. In the low boost he was getting 6.4 psi, and high was 7.3 psi. What do you think?
Click to expand...

Wow, a lot of interesting data here, and some old questions answered for me. Thanks very much for sharing.

The two things that jump out at me are the fact that the high boost kit added less than 1psi across the entire range. That explains why people have reported increases of just 20 hp. I’ve always questioned why the first 5-6 psi yields roughly 100 hp but the next 2-3 only 20 hp. I’ve written it off to having passed peak compressor efficiency and the associated heat, but even given that the numbers seemed low. This suggests that the real reason in even simpler, boost increase is less than 1 psi.

The other glaring fact is what I have observed watching a boost gauge but here it is even more clear. Boost is at it’s highest in the middle of the power band then tails off significantly. I presume that means the compressor is indeed past its peak efficiency at high engine RPM. It is simple enough to imagine that if the boost could even hold constant on up to redline you would see peak power comparable to the basic BBSC but also have the fat torque curve from getting boost early. Of course that’s not necessarily simple since the attributes which produce power in each range are sometimes conflicting. Since the CTSC can’t reasonably accept an after cooler, has limited fuel control and no timing control (at least in the std version), the falling boost is no doubt exactly what CT wanted. It yields impressive mid-range power where you can use it every day and still reasonable high-end without undue risks. Not a bad combination for a relatively simple to install system.

Unfortunately the charts don’t have AFR, AIT or fuel pressure. (I’m guessing the first temp is ambient and the “outlet” doesn’t make sense) Those would have been very interesting as well.
 
len3.8 said:
Makes me wonder, what effects a slightly smaller say 1-2mm would do?

Anyone running a smaller Pulley leaving everything as it comes.
Would the injectors, in that case need to be larger? Fuel rail?
Larger fuel pump?
Len
Click to expand...

I'm assuming you mean smaller than the high-boost pulley. Do we know what the diameter is for the two available pulleys? I'm wondering if less than 1psi gain is what should be expected mathematically.

If the reason for the rapid drop in boost at high RPM is that the compressor is running out of steam, then decreasing pulley size is already into a case of diminishing returns. But I don't know if that's really the case or if there is another explanation for it. IAT on the charts might have given another clue. But since the first PSI yielded roughly the same power increase as the first 5, I would expect the next psi to be at least worth experimentation, as would determining the reason boost falls off.

I think any boosted car is a potential candidate for a new fuel pump because we've seen stock one that just can't get it done even at modest boost levels. So more power just increases the chance of that being the case but you may find that it works fine. Supplying the extra fuel would probably just be a matter of adjusting the FPR base pressure and/or rise rate. The bigger concern is the timing advance and IAT. But this is a perfect scenario for water injection because you don't have the option to add an after cooler. Now if you combine that with a way to maintain boost at higher RPM and you have something very wicked, but I fear that last part is probably limited by the compressor.
 
Steve, when you are talking of the efficiency of the blower, are you talking about volumetric efficiency? Is the blower just running out of air? Is the issue a matter of just applying a larger blower, or is it a matter of what speed the blades are turning inside the blower, or finally the combination of both?

I have a size of 3 7/8" diameter for the smaller blower.(High boost blower) The larger pulley (not in my hands) is about 4 1/8" in diameter. (+or- a lil).
 
i have had a hard time trying to make my decision on what type of super charger to buy i still like the comptech / whipple set up so i am buying this set up however i am replaceing the charger from the 1.6L to a larger 2.3L model that flows 44% more air per rev and i am haveing a special intercooler built to run it up at even higher psi. my only question is will the comptech esm work on this or should i be looking at something else ? i will make all of the parts and bracket in our own shop using cnc equipment so i can make extra parts for others. our goal is 600hp.
 
ken sampson said:
i have had a hard time trying to make my decision on what type of super charger to buy i still like the comptech / whipple set up so i am buying this set up however i am replaceing the charger from the 1.6L to a larger 2.3L model that flows 44% more air per rev and i am haveing a special intercooler built to run it up at even higher psi. my only question is will the comptech esm work on this or should i be looking at something else ? i will make all of the parts and bracket in our own shop using cnc equipment so i can make extra parts for others. our goal is 600hp.
Click to expand...


To get that kind of horsepower you will definatly need a much better fuel magement system.


Armando
 
ken sampson said:
i have had a hard time trying to make my decision on what type of super charger to buy i still like the comptech / whipple set up so i am buying this set up however i am replaceing the charger from the 1.6L to a larger 2.3L model that flows 44% more air per rev and i am haveing a special intercooler built to run it up at even higher psi. my only question is will the comptech esm work on this or should i be looking at something else ? i will make all of the parts and bracket in our own shop using cnc equipment so i can make extra parts for others. our goal is 600hp.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a cool project! I have always liked the whipple supercharger vs others the same way I guess that some like the aerodynes vs other turbos. Fat low end torque and comparitively lower intake temps.

That said I admire CompTech for building something like this for the NSX that is relatively safe and simple but I always felt it was WAY too expensive for what you are getting.

If you can build a better mouse trap that retains the characteristics of the CTSC at a lower price with a better upgrade path and a lower entry fee - I would think that would be awesome.

I guess the more I write and consider CARB, ODBII, national support - I am starting to see why it is so expensive! Still - it would be cool to see a starter whipple kit in the $3000 range like most other supercharger kits being offered for other cars using the same bits and compressor IMO.

;)
 
matteni said:
Still - it would be cool to see a starter whipple kit in the $3000 range like most other supercharger kits being offered for other cars using the same bits and compressor IMO.
Click to expand...

And how many of those $3000 Whipple kits include a complete custom cast manifold?
 
Ken,

Sound like a nice project. You may want to do a little research on the new Ford GT40. They have done a lot of r&d for their setup which is a twin screw 2.3l/rev, and after cooler unit. It may be something that can be an easy retro-fit for you.

Good luck, and keep us posted
 
ken sampson said:
so do you have any idea's on this or know who i should be talking to? thanks
Click to expand...

There are plenty of people on here that know quite a bit more than I do, but I would feel comfortable in saying that you should be looking at either the TEC-3 or AEM systems as your ems.


Armando
 
NetViper said:
Very interesting. Why was the original car only running 4.5 psi? Isn't the standard kit supposed to make around 6?

Also, did the tuning increase low end TQ and high end power?
Click to expand...

Welcome to Las Vegas:) The higher elevation plays a factor in the amount of boost made with SCs. Where as a turbocharger will make the amount of boost dictated by the wastegate. In terms of going with a smaller pulley to increase boost, we believe the net effect would not be that substantial as the blower is nearing peak efficiency.

The re-tune produced gains across the entire torque band. Essentially scaling the entire band +35ftlbs from 2500rpms to redline. Btw, the NSX also had factory cats installed.
 
ken sampson said:
so do you have any idea's on this or know who i should be talking to? thanks
Click to expand...

Ken,

There are a host of EMS solutions that are available for what you are trying to accomplish. To reach your goals of 600rwhp we would suggest MoTeC, AEM, or TEC3. We hold tuning certificates and distribution for MoTeC, Pectel, and AEM, if you have any further questions feel free to call anytime. Btw, do not even try to fuel it with an FMU and a piggyback. The EMS you choose is only the first hurdle you will encounter when trying to get the 600rwhp and beyond level.
 
MoTec,

The best hands down, but it just costs so damn much.

I am very surprised that Apex'I hasn't jumped into the fray with a Power FC application for the C30A/C32B.
 

Similar threads

H
Thank You Factor X with my CTSC
Replies
22
Views
3K
KGP
KGP
Back
Top