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Fastbrake big brake kit update!

Joined
2 July 2000
Messages
394
Location
Raleigh, NC
Hello all, I have spoken with Brian at Fastbrakes and the fitment for the new brake kit is underway at Basch Acura Service in AZ. If all goes well the design phase will start next week. The Fastbrake kit will be constructed using high quality Wilwood components.(as are all of their kits)Check out their products at www.fastbrakes.com. I know a few members of the list know Brian and have a first had knowledge of the quality of his products. We need to see how many are interested to see how many kits need to be devolped on the first batch. My latest email from Brian is attached. Please feel free to email me at [email protected] or Brian at [email protected] if you have any questions or need any additional info. Thanks.

Jason,

I'm heading over to Basch this afternoon and should be able to start the design phase this weekend if all goes as planned. Here's a brief run down of what I plan to offer:

13" directional vane rotors (thickness will depend on room available, but it will be close to the stock width of 28mm) w/aluminum mounting hats

6 piston differential bore calipers

aluminum mounting brackets(it may be a radial mount, depending on room available)

These will be for the front only, I'll have to see what I can do about an upgraded rear rotor, but the stock rear caliper will have to be used due to the parking brake design.

I have a ball park for the estimated costs(kind of redundant) at $1600. This may change a bit depending on my cost, but I generally come in pretty close to what I estimate.

You can tell others of the progress if you wish, and please have them let me know if they are interested as I need to know how many of the various parts to make for the first run.

Thanks,

Brian H
 
From what I've seen/heard, the best thing you can do to improve interest is take the extra step to round up a bunch of people with as many different wheels as possible and publish a carefully crafted list of what fits and what doesn't, plus instructions on what measurements to take for estimating whether others will fit.

I for one am interested if they will fit inside most 17 inch wheels. A smaller kit that fits inside stock 16 inch fronts would also be great.
 
I'm certainly interested, but as SJS points out, an important question is whether it will fit under my 17x8 Enkei RP-01s at +38mm.

Also, what caliper is being used in the front? Does $1600 include an estimated cost for upgrading the rear rotor or not?

Lastly, I've got other mods on my list before brakes, so I wouldn't be able to commit to purchasing from the first run.

Furthermore, more information on things like weight and moment of inertia compared to stock brakes might be educational. It may turn out that a smaller rotor would be more appropriate.

-Mike
 
Yes. It is my understanding that various aftermarket brake systems are considerably more efficient than the OEM brakes, which to me seem a little weak or almost squishy on my 95 NSX-T (10,600 miles). However, many (or all?) existing aftermarket NSX brakes require wheels larger than stock. Because the stock NSX wheels are a relatively small size, having less rotational mass than bigger aftermarket wheels, they provide faster acceleration (less work required to overome inertia and maintain momentum). For this reason there is some reluctance of many NSXers to switching to aftermarket wheels as part of the brake upgrade strategy. So, the offering of a high quality set of very efficient brakes that fit OEM and aftermarket wheels might have the broadest appeal. Best luck.

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Stock, except Dunlaptya SP9000s
 
The Fastbrake kit will be constructed using high quality Wilwood components.

sounds like an oxymoron. However, They may have improved their product line recently. Any idea what specific model caliper they are using? Just because it has more pistons, doesn't mean it's high quality (i.e. Tarox)


------------------
G Dummy~

Faster than stock.
:D :D :D
 
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
sounds like an oxymoron. However, They may have improved their product line recently. Any idea what specific model caliper they are using? Just because it has more pistons, doesn't mean it's high quality (i.e. Tarox)


Wilwood seems to be popular in many budget big brake kits...are they really that bad??
 
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
......... Just because it has more pistons, doesn't mean it's high quality (i.e. Tarox)



Hmmmm, not sure how to read this!

Tarox is a poor quality brake but has 6 (or 10) pistons, or not all brakes that have more than oem pistons are as good as Tarox's quality?
 
oops, it might be a little confusing. What I meant to say was that Tarox are POS, and just because they have more pistons, doesn't mean they are good. I was using Tarox as a reference for poor quality.

------------------
G Dummy~

Faster than stock.
:D :D :D
 
Because the stock NSX wheels are a relatively small size, having less rotational mass than bigger aftermarket wheels, they provide faster acceleration (less work required to overome inertia and maintain momentum). For this reason there is some reluctance of many NSXers to switching to aftermarket wheels as part of the brake upgrade strategy. So, the offering of a high quality set of very efficient brakes that fit OEM and aftermarket wheels might have the broadest appeal.

There are some additional reasons that it would be nice if the kit fit the stock wheels (and, in particular, the 15" front stock wheels). One is that there are a lot more choices in tires, including those great-handling OEM street tires as well as in track tires. Another is that some of us have several sets of wheels as well as street tires to fit, since you can often find bargains on them. (I've picked up two sets of good 15"/16" wheels with OEM tires with decent tread for a grand total of $107.)

I am very interested in this kit. I'm also interested in hearing more about the calipers as well as about the differences between these rotors and the Stoptech Aerorotors (or are they the same thing?).
 
Originally posted by nsxtasy:
There are some additional reasons that it would be nice if the kit fit the stock wheels (and, in particular, the 15" front stock wheels).

That may be a little too much to ask. I think the stock NSX brakes are just about as big as humanly possible to fit under 15" rims. Of course, maybe with a smaller caliper, a wider rotor could be used, thus having more heat-dissipating mass. *shrug* I like my 17" rims, so I'm not too worried about that.

-Mike
 
I think you mean "Wildwood" not Wilwood.If they are Wildwood they are awesome we used them to stop 1000 plus horsepower on our drag car and rarely needed to pull the chute because of them.They were very effective with little or no brake fade.
smile.gif


------------------
 
Actually it is "Wilwood"


Originally posted by MYNSX:
I think you mean "Wildwood" not Wilwood.If they are Wildwood they are awesome we used them to stop 1000 plus horsepower on our drag car and rarely needed to pull the chute because of them.They were very effective with little or no brake fade.
smile.gif


 
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
What I meant to say was that Tarox are POS

tx6front.jpg


Tarox may be POS (although I’m not sure what evidence you’re basing this on). But the Tarox brakes on my car are more than enough brake for my NSX, even for heavy track use (although I’d suggest the track pads for hard driving at Road America); plus they look better than any other brake package out there and they fit the 16/17 OEM wheels and they’re reasonably priced.

DanO

tx6rear.jpg
 
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
What I meant to say was that Tarox are POS,

[/B]

Dear Mr.Mao Mao: How can you come up with an statement like that.
First of all let me tell you that I have a background of Road Racing of 16 years and not racing 350hp NSX race cars, I'm talking about Roush Mustangs with 800HP real Trans-Am cars, How can you say that those brakes are POS, Do you think that doing what you do (Club Racing or Track Events) give you enough background to judge wheter a system is good or not( I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!!!!!)

I went to Phoenix and drove Mark Basch car at Firebird and at PIR, and let me tell you those brakes are awesome, the kind of feedback that they give you (IMO) is spectacular, futhermore, I happen to be a Brembo importer in Panama, and to be honest, I can of like the balance and feedback of the Tarox over the ones that are on my car and I currently sell.

So please next time you come up with an statement like such, be prepared to back it up with enough back ground, to base your statements, otherwise you will be confusing the people that doesn"t have experience with this.

Enrique Thompson
Crazy4Cars Racing
Brembo Panama
 
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
oops, it might be a little confusing. What I meant to say was that Tarox are POS, and just because they have more pistons, doesn't mean they are good. I was using Tarox as a reference for poor quality.


maomao- If Tarox are a POS, then Lord- give me POS brakes, give us ALL pos brakes, please. <g> I don't know either what your data or reference pints are, but if you would like some REAL data, do what our good friend from Panama did- come to Phoenix, and drive my 400hp to the wheels 91 with Tarox front and rear and see what you think. If ANYONE can outbrake you, that knows how to drive, I will eat those brake pads. I run there street pads, and the feel and total lack of fade is truly confidence inspiring.

In a public forum such as this, its always best to limit these types of comments to true experience, IMO. It lends to credibility, so I must ask- have yo had any experience with Tarox that you can share? If others are having a proble with Tarox, I would sure like to know about it.

Cheers, All.
Mark
 
Originally posted by maomaonsx:
What I meant to say was that Tarox are POS, and just because they have more pistons, doesn't mean they are good. I was using Tarox as a reference for poor quality.
Don't hold back now -- tell us how you really feel.

Could you be a bit more specific, as to why you consider these to be inferior, as well as what your reference for "good quality" is ??

For the money, I believe they are amongst the better values in aftermarket BBKs, particularly considering their flexibility with fitments (though I WOULD like to see a bigger rotor option for 17 and 18 fronts).

I have the AP setup from RM, and am happy with it. The Tar-ox setup has bigger pads, and a bigger swept area, than the RM setup.

[This message has been edited by nsx1164 (edited 10 January 2002).]
 
OK, I do have experience with them on track. Compared to my BBK (not tarox), the tarox equipped NSX constantly locks up and have very little feedback They felt like the brakes on my rental volvo--like an on/off switch. Very hard to control the amount of braking force you want to apply. As far as quality goes, don't take my words, just go compare it with Brembo or AP calipers. You'll see.

Good parts aren't always expensive, but crappy parts are usually cheap. Also, if my "POS" comment offended any Tarox users, then my apology.

BTW, Enrique, I am very impressed with your driving and racing record. I also really love the way your car looked. Very "Fast and Furious."

------------------
G Dummy~

Faster than stock.
:D :D :D
 
BTW, Enrique, I am very impressed with your driving and racing record. I also really love the way your car looked. Very "Fast and Furious."

[/B][/QUOTE]

As far as my record, it does speaks for itself,and I'm more than sure that you will love to have my Fast and the Furious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Hello, Thank you all for the reponses both publicly and privately. I have emailed Brian at Fastbrakes with each and every one of your questions. I hope to have some more particular details tomorrow with the return email. I would hate to post anything about the kit that did not come directly from him. I have also personally invited him to the forums, so we may see a post with replies to your questions directly from him as well. He has done a fitment on a NSX at Basch acura service, so the ball is defintely rolling. Again thank you for your questions, and I hope we will have more specific information for you soon.

------------------
Jason
 
It sounds like the Tarox brakes you were driving on had the original Tarox pads in them. They are definately unpredictable at times. Throw on some different pads, such as the Carbotech's, and the brakes are really good and consistent. I've never locked mine up.
 
Hello all, attached is the reply email from Brian at Fastbrakes with more info about the kit. Seems things are shaping up nicely! I think Brian has answered most all the questions, but please feel free to email Brian or myself if you have any further questions. Talk with you again soon!

Jason,

I will be using the factory 16" front wheels as the basis for the design of the kit. Since most have switched to the 16" fronts that would seem appropriate. The stock wheels have 55mm offset, which is what an aftermarket wheel would need to be, in order to have the room for the caliper.

I'm building the kit around the Wilwood Billet Superlite 6 piston caliper using a radial mount. The caliper can be seen at the http://www.wilwood.com/ site. The calipers weigh 5 lbs each without pads, compared to 14 lbs for the stock caliper. The 13" rotors will weigh approx 12 lbs each, about 2 lbs less than the stock rotors. The rotors will be directional vane for increased airflow and should be approx the same thickness as stock (28mm). If I need more caliper to wheel clearance I may need to reduce the thickness of the rotor a small amount, but that will not have a detrimental effect on rotor performance. Caliper piston sizing will approximate the stock caliper so pedal travel will remain the same. Pedal pressure will actually be less due to the increased leverage the larger rotor/caliper combo will have over the rotating mass. Modulation will be greatly increased as will pedal feel.

The $1600 estimate cost will be for the front brakes only. I can design and build a complimentary 2 piece rear upgrade using the stock calipers for approximately $500. This would include a larger rotor/hat combo and an adapter bracket to relocate the stock caliper. The rotors would be directional vaned for increased cooling capability, similiar to the fronts.

I normally don't supply rotors with slots or holes as the systems I have designed don't deal with the same speeds the NSX is capable of, and they don't require them to retain braking performance. However, if people do want slots or drilling I can supply the rotors that way. Slotting costs approx $25 per rotor and drilling is $75 per rotor. Rotors will be silver cadmium plated for rust protection.

As for posting on the NSXprime site, I would prefer not to, mainly as I don't want to be seen as taking advantage of a free forum to promote my business. I'd be glad to answer questions if people want to email me either at [email protected] or at [email protected]

I should have the caliper/rotor test combo in a few weeks at which time I'll take it in to Basch and do a test fitting. If all goes well I'll get the final costs lined up and let you know.

Thanks,

Brian H



[This message has been edited by Jason Weaver (edited 11 January 2002).]
 
Interesting.

Here are a couple more questions:
1) What kind of rotors is he using? They don't sound like Wilwood, but I could be wrong.
2) Is he taking brake balance into account in designing a rear rotor/bracket kit?
3) Will the ~$1600 kit include everything needed like brake lines and pads?
4) I'm assuming that if the brakes fit under a 16" OEM front wheel, then they'd easily fit under and lower-offset (as in sticking out from the hub more) aftermarket 17" that offers more clearance than the stock wheels. It'd still be nice if he could test-fit whatever wheels are on-site at Basch Acura when he does the test-fit.

Jason: I'd email him myself, but in case other people have questions, it might be easier on Brian if you keep acting as a central point of contact.

-Mike
 
I'd echo grippgoat's questions and add:

1) If the kit includes pads, what kind?
2) Are there carbotechs (sp?) and others that will fit?
3) What is the replacement cost for rotors?
4) If we find that the supplied rotors don't hold up at track event (several brands have been known to warp & crack), what other brands will fit easily?

Overall I'm very encouraged, but I worry about being stuck without the ability to swap out parts that don't perform.
 
Hello all, Here is the return email with Brian's response to our latest round of questions. Again, feel free to email myself or Brian directly if you have any other questions. We are looking at about a 2 week window (give or take) before a test fitting will take place at Mark B's shop in AZ. Talk to ya soon!

Jason,

Rotors will be made by Coleman Racing, a leading racing supply company. They have their own foundry and can custom make the rotors to the dimensions need for any application. Replacement costs for the rotors will depend on final configuration, but slotting and drilling will increase the retail price. As I think I mentioned the rotors are a directional vane design which means they will flow a lot more air than the stock rotors, resulting in much cooler brakes. Slotting and drilling are not necessary to keep the brakes from overheating, and may actually result in a loss of heat transfer efficiency due to reduced rotor mass. Replacement costs should be around $125-140 per rotor, again depending on optional slotting and drilling. I will include the rotor dimensions in the kit and if a replacement is needed, Coleman can make them up in less than a week. I will stock a few sets of rotors as well.

I can have a heavy duty rotor made up for this application using the best rotors Coleman makes, a 48 vane design, although this will raise the price of the kit a bit. I can also supply the kit with various stages of rotors, from street to track only. This would allow each owner to decide if they want to spend the extra $ on track only rotors.

I plan to keep the same front/rear brake diameter ratio as the stock brakes, so the front/rear bias should remain the same.

I have brake line adapters made that allow the use of the stock style lines with these calipers. The adapters will be included in the kit. I can easily have custom braided steel front lines made to fit directly to the calipers, but would have to up the price approx $50.

Pads were not included in the price, mainly due to different braking techniques and tracks require different compounds. Wilwood makes several compounds for the 6 piston calipers, and I'm sure all the large pad makers(Carbotech, etc) make them too. The pads are basically the same as the Superlite pads, with the retaining pin hole removed from the top of the pad backing plate. I can certainly look into having Carbotech make up the pads for the kit using one of their track compounds, such as the Panther Plus. I have a good relationship with them as they supply my pads for my other kits too.

I'll test fit the brakes on the car at Basch with whatever wheels he has available, including the stock 16's. I don't know if the wheels with less offset will be a problem until I try to fit the calipers in there.

Thanks,

Brian H
 
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